Graham Betchart, a renowned NBA mental skills coach, shares his journey of self-discovery and personal evolution. From his unconventional upbringing to his experience working with NBA players like Aaron Gordon, Jaylen Brown, among many others, Graham offers a unique perspective on embracing vulnerability, following your deepest intelligence, and finding fulfillment through artistic expression. Prepare to be inspired as he imparts wisdom on mindset, presence, and the pursuit of authenticity.
Timestamps:
02:55 Influence of Women on Graham's Life
06:57 Vulnerability, Rewiring the Brain, and Mental Skills Training
31:55 The Impact of Mental Skills Coaching on Athletes
43:36 Following Your Deepest Intelligence
57:33 Personal Evolution & The Joy of Making Music
Thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate your time and support. Let me know what you thought of the episode and what you would like to see in the future. Any feedback would be awesome. Don't forget to subscribe for more exciting content on YouTube, and leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever platform you are listening on.
Connect with us below:
Instagram: Tim Doyle | The Outworker
Youtube: The Outworker
Graham Betchart, a renowned NBA mental skills coach, shares his journey of self-discovery and personal evolution. From his unconventional upbringing to his experience working with NBA players like Aaron Gordon, Jaylen Brown, among many others, Graham offers a unique perspective on embracing vulnerability, following your deepest intelligence, and finding fulfillment through artistic expression. Prepare to be inspired as he imparts wisdom on mindset, presence, and the pursuit of authenticity.
Timestamps:
02:55 Influence of Women on Graham's Life
06:57 Vulnerability, Rewiring the Brain, and Mental Skills Training
31:55 The Impact of Mental Skills Coaching on Athletes
43:36 Following Your Deepest Intelligence
57:33 Personal Evolution & The Joy of Making Music
Thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate your time and support. Let me know what you thought of the episode and what you would like to see in the future. Any feedback would be awesome. Don't forget to subscribe for more exciting content on YouTube, and leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever platform you are listening on.
Connect with us below:
Instagram: Tim Doyle | The Outworker
Youtube: The Outworker
Tim Doyle (00:01.454)
What's up, outworkers? Graham Betchart, a renowned NBA mental skills coach, shares his journey of self -discovery and personal evolution. From his unconventional upbringing to his experience working with NBA players like Aaron Gordon, Jalen Brown, among many others, Graham offers a unique perspective on embracing vulnerability, following your deepest intelligence, and finding fulfillment through artistic expression.
prepared to be inspired as he imports wisdom on mindset, presence, and the pursuit of authenticity. You say that you're a spiritual being living the human experience. What does that mean? man, right off the bat, huh? I mean, that's the deepest level of awareness that I know. You know, if you just keep tracking what this is, then you look deep. You know what I mean? Like if you separated your skin and...
the organs and the nerve, it just laid that shit out all on the ground, right? You just see a whole bunch of just stuff there and you're like, that's not me. You know what I mean? Like that's body parts. I could pull out my spleen, the muscles. If we just laid it all out, like separated the nerve, you just see all this matter. And you're like, you know there's something that's powering that. You know what I mean? Because if I were to die right now, my body would just be here and you'd be like, Graham's dead. The body would still be there, but like I would have left.
Now that exact thing, I don't quite know how to identify it. I just say spiritual being because I'm like, it's whatever the energy is that's powering this thing, I identify with that. And that's kind of the deepest I know it. It's like, you know what I mean? I'm like this being, clearly living the human experience and the human experience is filled with feelings, emotions. You got to eat food, you got to drink water. Like it's hard, you know, human, there's work all the time being a human.
And then within the human experience, I'm like choosing to coach. When I started to realize that, it just set me free. You know, it's like, I see athletes all the time. I'll be like, they're like, I'm a basketball player. I'm like, you know, this won't take long, but that's not what you are. And they're like, but they may have identified as that since you're 11 or 12. And that's okay to identify that. But I think our journey is kind of like progressing into like, okay, who am I? You know, and if we identify as energy and energy is everywhere, you can start to.
Tim Doyle (02:24.91)
And this, I mean, since you went right, I love that question so much. I asked my first teacher, I said, okay, if you learn to identify as energy and therefore energy is not created or destroyed, your body is going to come and go. I said, is that everlasting life? And she just went like this, just put her thumb up. So it's like, depending on what you identify with, I think can dictate whether like, if you identify as the body, clearly you're not going to.
this maybe 100 years, you know, I mean, give or take whatever, you know, I mean, clearly that that comes and goes from a young age. You've said that your biggest influences in your life have been women. I find that really interesting because I think for a lot of young men, you would most likely think that it would be some type of male figure. Yeah.
How do you think that women impacted you and your life in a way that men wouldn't necessarily be able to? man. It's a great question. I think men probably have some of the capabilities to do it. But what I noticed was the women around me were just highly trained, for lack of better words. Like we say mental training now.
but they were just so advanced, man. I mean, I was delivered by Ina Mae Gaskin. And if you know anything about midwifery, Ina Mae Gaskin is the one. She wrote spiritual midwifery and my mom was a midwife. So if you're around childbirth at all or midwifery, you know that's the most bad -ass shit in the world. I mean, literally life's on the line. So it's like that was around me. And so it just kind of like that became...
normal for me. So essentially what you learn is go towards the uncomfortable feeling. You know what I mean? I mean, what that's like training, go towards the uncomfortable feeling. What they train you with childbirth is, my, you know, it's the craziest thing. I can't experience it. But what I would watch them train is they would say, go towards the uncomfortable feeling. So if that's not hardcore, I don't know what is right. So that was just around me when I was young. And so I didn't see a lot of men encouraging.
Tim Doyle (04:35.726)
you to go towards vulnerability or go towards being uncomfortable in that lens. So for me, that just like set the foundation of like no bullshit really, you know what I mean? Like, and they, I wasn't allowed to like go away, you know, from that stuff, you know what I mean? Like at all. So I feel like that's one of my main privileges in life. I have a whole bunch of privileges, but one of them is like, I was lucky enough to be around that, you know, lucky enough to be around.
And when I still say like, you know, midwifery and natural childbirth, most people don't really talk to me about it. They're just kind of like, what the hell is that? You know, and that's just my life is like, but when you're, when you learn that and you see your mom learning, my mother was a midwife too. And she, you know, she would deliver babies like, and then watching her in the room with my wife while my wife was delivering and seeing like, that's the highest level performance I've ever seen. Like literally my daughter was inside of my wife. Her heart was dropping.
And they're like, if she doesn't come out now, we're in big trouble. Right. And if you hear that in a room, that means, you know, life is on the line. And I watched my mom who was in the room just gracefully move in. I like to a state of peak performance that I've never seen before, and she had a smile on her face and she was so graceful and she helped my wife get into the right position, knew exactly what to do and everything worked from that moment. But I was like, literally they were like, she's going to die if something doesn't happen right now. And I was like, you know, I'm like,
shit, you know, and I'm watching my mom and my wife be at a peak performance level while life's on the line, not like a sport is on the line or some ego shit, like real shit. You know what I mean? So, yeah, man, that like influenced my life a lot. I didn't think when I was young, I kind of was like, not embarrassed, but you're like, not a lot of people are talking about this. So this weird stuff. But as you get older, you're like, man, I had the foundation for for.
for some real success, you know? Yeah. You really don't realize it in the moment, but as life goes on, you understand the power and the strength behind that. Right. So fast forwarding a little to your high school years, you were a three sport athlete in high school, very popular in school. But you said that it was almost like a facade and you were being who you thought you were supposed to be. What was it?
Tim Doyle (06:58.446)
a value that fell like a facade. You know, I think just being like, you know, a teenager trying to find yourself, you know, and trying to figure out like, how real can I be here? And like, how authentic, how genuine can I be here? I went to an academic powerhouse high school is called Lowell High School. It's in San Francisco. It's a legendary public high school, like routinely.
one of the nation's best, California's best. So the academic pressure was absurd. Meaning all the focus was on A's, was on results, was on SAT scores. For me, going into that felt a little inauthentic, right? It felt like, what is this? Like, what is all this? Like the SATs, that's your whole life? Like, that's it? This little like number on a score on some tests? So I just, part of me was like, I'm doing this, like I'm going to school.
And I graduated from low high school and learned how to study and learned like profound skills. And it helped me out a lot, but this emphasis, almost anxiety on grades that like a 4 .0 and back in the day, it was 1600 on the SATs that that was going to make or break your life. You know, that's just not the case at all. So to me, I couldn't fully, how can that be authentic when a part of you was like, this ain't it.
When I'm like, and I didn't even know the words, but what if you were judging on presence, on awareness, on consciousness? You know what I mean? I look at the word GPA now I'm like gratitude, presence, awareness. I'm like, that's what the hell that is. Like learn how to do that. So the inauthentic thing to me was feeling like this, that this, that that was it. Like this is, this is it. This is the do or die thing for your life. And part of me was like, that's just not true. How do you think that schooling can do a better job of?
not only testing the IQ side of kids, but the EQ side. Yeah, I think, I mean, it just comes from growth, like how we're living right now, like this whole generation coming up right now. IQ has got us to a pretty, pretty good place. And then you realize the limitations of it. IQ doesn't want to feel uncomfortable ever. Right. So there's a limitation to it. That's like walking into the weight room and you're like, no, no, no, we don't want to feel uncomfortable. You're like, you don't get how this works. Do you? So the IQ can take you right to the edge.
Tim Doyle (09:15.086)
Right, right to the because it's rational. It's logical. The hell wants to feel vulnerable and go into the unknown and feel uncomfortable. So that's the EQ right where it comes in. We go OK, maybe I feel a little fear. Am I in danger? No, I'm not in danger. I gotta work through that like I gotta breathe and learn to be through that. And then as people can start can kind of practice that, which I hope is becoming. More and more, I mean, I think about OK, what are the things that are uncomfortable for you? A lot of that that's not memorizing and taking tests. It's.
Walk up, walk across this room and go talk to that person about something uncomfortable. Human to human skills. So improv, I think improv, everyone should be doing improv all the time, learning to go do something uncomfortable spontaneously. All those types of things, you know, that type of learning I think is coming hopefully more and more into our awareness and consciousness. Because what we're trying to do is we're trying to train people to get to body.
Right? BQ body intelligence, which is where you know instantly what to do because you're so tuned into your deepest level of intelligence. It's beyond IQ. It's beyond EQ. And once you're there, all you do is try to set the stage so you can hear it every day. So you have to hear past the emotion. You have to hear past the fear and all that. There's this quiet level that sits there and it somehow knows what to do. It knows exactly what to do. I've just tried to listen to that my whole life and be tuned into that.
that guides you. It has an intelligence that your IQ can't grasp and your EQ has to go through some vulnerability to listen to it. But that's where victory to the vulnerable comes in, right? You're like, all right, my deepest intelligence knows what to do. Emotionally, that's going to feel uncomfortable. My IQ has no idea what's going on. It's just basically panicking. And you have to trust that deeper source. And as you trust it, the two other levels start to relax a little bit. And then your work is to me, just listening. Getting deeper into that.
a body cue and I like that I've never heard that before. But do you think that's a mostly solo process or how would other people kind of play into that process? Yeah, I mean, it's there for everybody, right? The ultimate technology in the world is ourselves. We've mastered everything outside of us. And whenever you're ready to face yourself, it's time. And that means that means your work starts. So whenever that moment is for everybody, you never know what it is. But you start with the intention that I want to explore.
Tim Doyle (11:38.286)
I want to see what this is. I'm curious and I want to see what this is. Why do I react in fear in certain moments or why do I avoid what are these patterns I'm starting to notice? Once you start that journey, it all opens up. I mean, that's how I figured out I'm a spiritual being living the human experience. And I'm not saying believe me, you don't believe or disbelieve me. Check it out for yourself. Right. Because once you have the experience, it doesn't matter. Like what some book says, you're like, I have the direct experience.
you know, and you're able to do that. So it's the navigation system is inside everybody. We are the greatest technology in the world. We barely know how to tap into our technology. I mean, me or you are right now are on some profound technology where we're communicating and recording. And but a lot of people still the technology inside is that opportunity. That's why I love this idea of AI and all this other stuff, too. I see a lot of fear around that. But I'm like, man, imagine AI just taking care of all the basic stuff in life.
and you can finally turn it in and do this work. Now we can work on consciousness. And when people start working on consciousness, peace tends to be an outcome from that level of work. And we got a lot of stuff going on in the world right now. So I think there's some great opportunities to go in and start doing this training inside. I mean, you know, the best way to win a war is never fight a war. But I don't think most people know the next one, which is the best way to never fight a war is you have to win the war inside. You have to truly fucking fight inside.
and that most people have not been equipped, haven't been trained, don't know the weaponry, and don't know it's a real fight, like a fight. And so you can satisfy your need to be competitive and that thirst for ambitious, almost like you need something to sharpen your tool with. Man, when you start looking inside, Tim, and you start doing that work, you will face the scariest shit you've ever seen in your life. So this is like I was raised by women. They just taught me to do that.
Turns out you feel like more of a man ever by facing that than you could ever be by going outside. And I'm like, man, these women were more like powerful than anyone I've ever met. So the feminine energy, the courage to go in and unlock, that stuff is prof, and you feel like a badass. I just talk about this stuff like a motherfucker, man. It's all just feminine strength. And then once you learned that, you learn that shit unlocks at all. So going to the start of your, what I would say is the start of your body Q journey.
Tim Doyle (13:58.126)
In 1997, you're at Cabrillo Junior College and you play basketball and you severely sprained your ankle. And this was a breaking point for you. Walk me through how challenging of a time that was for you in 1997. Yeah, man. It was just, it was like when that opening, when that beautiful opening happened in my life and by beautiful at the time you're in a crisis and it feels like hell and you're going into like darkness and you're like, man, what's the point of life?
But that's actually where all the magic and transformation happens. And so just, you know, my girlfriend and I broke up. I was away from home. I hated being away from home. It's the first time I really hurt myself playing sports and I just felt anxious and depressed. Like I just, like it was just cascading down all of life. And I was like, I can't pretend to be positive through this. You know what I mean? Like I was like, I can't do that shit anymore. So I called my mom and was like, I need help. Like I can't just will my way through how.
Difficult this is in life and then she just said did you know you could rewire your brain? And I was like, I have no idea and this is where I got really lucky in life. That's where I got lucky The woman she introduced me to There's the most powerful person I've ever met imagine the first time you ask for help and not only do you get help you get introduced to like Like the one where here I am 27 years later and I'm like they were not even close to touching on what she taught
And I just use sports psychology and sports and business and all this stuff as a way to kind of bring this to the world. But the first teacher really who helped me out with this when I was open was the deepest person I've ever met. And so it was like learning like the fundamentals of Olympic weightlifting when you're like two years old. And so, you know, the fundamentals of like training on such a deep level that by the time I found sports psychology, I was like, this, I was like, okay, I'm going to like.
This is light, it's lightweight stuff, right? It's surface level. We're going to learn it through sports. We'll win some games, but always, I'm always just trying to help people get to their deepest navigation system. So that beer Cabrillo blew my mind. I was so lost and confused. And that's when there was an opening. And in that opening, I asked for help and man, I got put in touch with, like I didn't get played in that moment. Like I've heard so many times with people, there's bad coaches out there. There's people. And I was like, man, I,
Tim Doyle (16:21.902)
for whatever reason, that's not coming to my life. And so I got lucky with that. And my first real coach was like, whoo, Tim, like she was, she had confidence that was otherworldly, confidence that wasn't even like confidence how I understood confidence. It was peace. I was sitting in there the first time, just panicking, crying, you know, just going through it. And I remember looking up her in the eyes and she was looking at me from a place of consciousness that I had never even knew existed. And it was so loving and so peaceful. I was like,
Like it was like, and it hit me so hard. I was like, I don't know what's going on, but wherever she is, I'm going to spend eternity and try to figure out what that is. Because here I am with fear that's like, you know, intellectual fear that knows it's in it's in trouble. And then she was like, you're not even you have no idea what's going on. And I was like, but she didn't even say that. She just smiled at me. You know, so, man, that was my experience, you know, and then for a couple of years, like really worked with her.
let go of sports and all that and just kind of like did this work and it's really uncomfortable. It's really, you know, it doesn't mean like you do the work and like, I'm amazing. You're like, no, I got to go in there and get vulnerable. I got to go in there and cry. And she'd just have a box of Kleenex next to her. And she'd go, here you go. When you start crying. So I learned to cry. I learned this whole experience of like, really like learning to really be present on a deep level. You know, what does rewiring your brain mean to you now?
It's a great question. I think to me, it just means opening up pathways that maybe weren't there. You know, we have a wiring in our brain, say like patterns. You're just doing kind of like a pattern, you know what I mean? And then you become aware and you're like, that pattern has emotion and stories attached to it. So I keep repeating it, but like I can actually choose another pattern. And to me, that's the rewiring. Like you choose another pattern and you start to do that pattern and your brain is creating new pathways in your brain. You know what I mean? So it starts to rewire. And that's where the athletic training kicks into me. Cause you go,
You got to do it a whole bunch. As she was helping me rewire with affirmation and meditation and breathing and knew what new approaches, what kicked in for me is, you got to do it every day. I was like, bingo, I know that I'm an athlete. I know that I know how to do it every day. I know how to be devoted. I know how to do it when I'm uncomfortable. I know how to do it when I don't want to like you're an athlete. And so I think that's where this took off is I learned this, this stuff called mental training.
Tim Doyle (18:44.846)
But then the whole secret is once you learn it, you're like, dude, this is an everyday practice. And I was like, bingo, that's my superpower. So I just took these practices that are tried and true, you know, been around forever. This shit's not new. And I just did it every day like a savage. You know what I mean? Like I have a natural competitive spirit. So I just put it into that. And I was like, damn, this stuff makes you feel good. And as I got myself out of a crisis, I was like, whoa, these are skills. This isn't just get yourself out of a crisis.
And then I walked on and played Division 3 at UC Santa Cruz and I was like, I learned something. I thought I was healing myself. But I was like, huh, I'm on the basketball court now and like, I'm kind of dialed in. What's up, outworkers? We hope you're enjoying this episode as much as we love creating it for you. If you're finding any value or inspiration in what you're hearing, we'd be incredibly grateful if you could take a moment to support us. Here's how you can do that.
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Your support means the world to us and we can't wait to continue bringing you more fantastic episodes. Stay tuned and keep out working. I still didn't know about sports psychology yet, but I was like, man, this stuff, whatever I just did in 1997 as a male reaching out for help, that was not common stuff, but I just got lucky because of who was around me. They pointed me in the right direction. I was always encouraged to ask for help if I needed it. So I was primed to do it and I did it. And then once they taught me, I never looked back. I'm a big believer that.
our toughest moments can become the building blocks and the stepping stones for our foundation for our entire lives. So getting more so into the sports psychology of things. Now in 2002, a Donald foil who was on the golden state warriors at the time introduced you to the world of sports psychology. And then in 2004, you start your sports psychology masters.
Tim Doyle (21:08.174)
degree at John F. Kennedy University, but it's also at this time that you started coaching basketball at Mission High School in San Francisco. How pivotal was it for you to apply your academic work at John F. Kennedy with the real world work and coaching at Mission? Damn, man. This is a great interview, Tim. You're doing like an amazing job, dude. Like that. It's so rich what you just asked.
It meant meant everything. So I would go to graduate school at night. Graduate school was like 7 PM to 10 PM. It was long, long classes, but it allowed me in the day to be a coach and I didn't get a job. And if you know anything about coaching like high school, public school, JB basketball teams, you're not making money. You know what I mean? So there's no money in it. But what I did was I went to school at night and the next day it was like a laboratory. I was like my labs, the gym, I'm going to apply immediately what I learned in graduate school.
and bring this to life. So it was a huge sacrifice financially, right? Huge. I was taking out student loans, like all that stuff. But I was like, I have an opportunity now that if I don't get a job and I just use this and I just go all in with this, I could create something here. So super vulnerable, super uncomfortable. A lot of my friends had full -time jobs and they would go to graduate school. And I was like, I have no job. I'm just going to go teach these kids for free and basically and learn and try to like learn this stuff. So Mission High School is where I really developed.
and put this all into a language. And I thought, if I can take what I was taught in San Francisco, run it through sports and sports psychology, and I can deliver it in a 60 second verbal way to like a 15 year old, shit, I can do it with anybody. Because 15 year olds don't have any time. They don't, you know, and so that's where I started to practice. And that's where play present next play speed, all the language came from because mental training is just a language. You start with a language.
And so if I could introduce this language and it made sense, I could do it with kids. Then we can rock and roll. And my commitment was to be there four years, you know, graduated class. But our fourth year, we won the city championship in San Francisco. And I was like, dude, we got to get another one. You know, I didn't think we were going to win. And I was like, it was another sign of like, my God, like this mental training stuff is crazy. Like it actually wins. Like what? I was like, my God. And then we won another city championship. And then I left after that because I thought two city championships is real.
Tim Doyle (23:34.734)
One could be luck. Someone could say it's luck, but two means you got something cooking. And I left and the dean was the head coach and he's been there ever since. And he took that program to the upper echelons in San Francisco history, man. So I feel really good to be a part of that. And I'm from San Francisco to sort of give back and help out Mission High School. And Aaron Gordon's first high school game when he was 13 years old was at Mission High School. So that one was fun too, to be able to have him come up and man, wait to ask these are great questions, man. But like,
I think a lot of young people, when I say young and you're 20, so you're coming into life and school or whatever, they're in such a hurry, Tim. They're really in a hurry. They're like, my God, it's a line. If I don't do this by this age, it's not gonna happen. And I'm like, that's all a lie. And it makes you panic, right? And if you go fast under pressure, you're not gonna do very well in general. And some people can mask that as like I'm driven. I'm like, you're not driven, you're anxious. And slow down.
So this is where walk to win with lethal patients. A lot of my language came because I had to counter how culture was trying to make you do things. And I was like, that's going to lose. If I'm going to hurry right now and graduate, why would I be in a hurry? I'm 25 years old. Where am I going? I need to be here. So my pacing helped me a lot. And I see a lot of people suffer because they're anxiously trying to get somewhere quick. The sacrifice of course, was some money and that can be very uncomfortable, but I was willing to be in that uncomfortable space. You know why?
My I key was like, My E key was like, it's so uncomfortable. My B key was like, you know what to do, go do it. I was like, got it, I'll go do it. As you play it out over time, of course that works, man. It's like if you're an instrument, if your body's an instrument and you tune, if you tune it, you're gonna play good music. I was just following what it told me to do. My I key was like, you're gonna lose it, man. You're not gonna make any money. Your E key was like, this is so fucking uncomfortable. How can we do this? And I was like, what do I do, honor those when they don't have the directions?
So I had to honor the thing that was like, go to mission high school, man, go do it. Don't get a job. So if you're like, to me, when you honor the deepest intelligence, hey, yeah, yeah, it runs your IQ through it. Your IQ is gonna get worked a little bit and your EQ has to feel some feelings. But that's what I did at mission high school. And I'm so thankful that I was aware to do that because the rush to go get a job to try to satisfy the money real quick, I totally get it.
Tim Doyle (25:58.734)
But that ends up for a lot of people sabotaging their alignment over the long haul. And if you're not aligned at 40 years old, what happens then? And you're like, man, for the last 15 years, what the hell have I been doing? You've been working hard, but working hard, maybe not necessarily in the right place. So nothing wrong with that. But like, I was just like, if I'm aware of my deepest intelligence, I have no choice but to follow it. And it said, don't worry about money, go teach at Mission High School for free. And I was like, that's insane. And then I was like, it's actually not insane.
I felt uncomfortable being this aware of what I was supposed to do, but I also knew I should probably go do it. It's liberating, Tim, but terrifying at the same time. That's how you know you do it, you're doing it right. And going back to what you said right before we got into this, like mental training is uncomfortable. If you embrace that, like when we go into like a gym or you're working out, everyone understands that like a certain level of uncomfortableness in there is how you make gains. If you just apply that.
to the mental training space. So you go, maybe going through the hardest time in your life and ends up being a benefit. That's like saying I'm in the gym and you're like, man, I'm in a tough set and ends up that's where the muscles come from. You're like, yes. So we're trying to go into that space. Once you're conscious of how this works, you're not trying to avoid that. That's why we say victory to the vulnerable. Dude, we're trying to train today. Go into that, not for 24 hours. Go train for a little bit today and then rest the rest of the day.
Right? Training principles. This is just training, man. If you're here, this is what I'm aware of. If you're here living the human experience, you have to train. You have to train. If you're down here and you're embodied and you've got a meat suit rocking with you, you gotta train it. You gotta train it. It's weight. There's real gravity. Like, it's real. So I kind of look at Earth as a gym and I'm like, we're here. We may as well work out today. Don't, and if you avoid it, that sucks. Just go get it real quick.
And you're cool with the rest of the day. Confidence really is courage at first. You know, later on, it feels amazing, but usually early on, it's just courage. And you have the courage to follow your deepest intelligence. What happens if you don't follow your deepest intelligence is later on, you just realize, I should probably follow it now. And if you don't follow it, it's just going to smack you in the face at some point. And if you don't listen to that, it's going to break your leg. It'll never give up on you. You could be like, I'll go make a billion dollars. And you make that and realize that wasn't it for you. It'll still be like, are you ready to do it now?
Tim Doyle (28:19.022)
My favorite thing is when people hit their first dream in life and then they realize, that wasn't it. That's okay. But you have to hit that sometimes. That's an IQ. That's like a thing that's usually like, I want this thing so bad. And you go get it and you're like, man, I, that didn't do what I thought. And that gives you an opportunity to go to something deeper. I think that's when the fun starts. So mental health and mental skills training has become much more mainstream today, which is awesome to see. And I would say that you are.
One of the people that has been a trailblazer for that. So thank you. Yeah Well right on Tim, but obviously like you said in 1997 when you Started doing sort of your own mental health stuff. You got lucky because it wasn't normal Yeah, so going back then in what ways did you have to be a salesman of mental skills training? Before just be a mental skills coach. Yeah, I mean, you know when you do
Mental skills training, right? The reward is your energy, right? Like you have a different energy. You have an uplifting energy, right? Anyone who's more present, anyone who does this, like your energy automatically, the vibration rises. So I knew my vibration was always the thing that was gonna open up doors. And so when I thought like, how do I sell this stuff? The way the world looked to me, it was like I figured out that water was good for you. And I would look around and someone would be like, water's.
Terrible and I would be like, man like So the first way I would sell it is I'd have compassion for people that they just literally have no idea what's going on or they've had a bad experience with this right a bad coach or someone whatever it was or they've Whatever it was so I had tons of compassion And then I would just go do the work and I was like as long as you're just doing good work It sells itself. You know what I mean? Like it sells itself. So the main cell I worked on was
I didn't care when people said no. So if you're involved in sales, you realize most of it's all rejection and you build the skill of next place feed, which is Tim, 95 out of a hundred people will be like, you're full of shit, Graham. And I'd be like, imagine someone who's like, I'm so thirsty. And you're like, here's some water. And they're like, get that shit out of here. You're just like, man, I feel for you. But the person who drinks the water, boom, could just go help them. You know, so I'd get rejected 95 out of a hundred times.
Tim Doyle (30:43.15)
And all I was looking for was the five who said, this is it. And I would just follow that. So my resume of success, you know, it's mind blowing, but my resume of failures is 500 times longer and way more mind blowing. So yeah, man, if you like, I'm living the mental skills, I'm living it every day. I can't control what other people do. Most people said, said I was crazy. What I would do though, is I would be really loving when years later they would come back.
Cause if you say water's full of shit, right? What's going to happen? You're like, you're going to get thirsty soon, man. Like there's no way to hide. So if you're like, this inner world doesn't work, you're like, Nope, it does. And whether or not you like it, you're coming back to it. And when they come back, I'd be very loving and caring. And, meaning I would, what I would say is, Hey man, whenever you're ready, I'll be here. And they'd see me five years later, 10 years later and be like, shit, Graham, this stuff is real. I'm like, I know it's real. It's okay. They're like, I didn't know. I'm like, nobody knew, man. Yeah.
You know, so I just, I would, it's sales, man. Like you, you do it every, I mean, I have to sell to my kids and go to bed every night. We, we do sales all the time. And when you have a conviction for what you're doing and awareness of it and you care, you want to help people. I really looked, thought, thought of myself as a waiter and I just had some good food. I'm like, I'm just going to keep offering the food. So you're known by a lot of people as being a mental skills coach for NBA players, but there's a massive caveat to that. And.
I think it's my favorite thing about you and your work is that you worked with kids and you grew with kids and then they turned into NBA players and a player that you mentioned earlier on, Aaron Gordon, and you said that a lot of your, you know, selling a mental skills coaching, the failures were, you know, 500 times compared to your successes. Yeah. But one of the kids that,
did really connect with it was Aaron Gordon. How did you first get connected with him at such a young age at 11 years old? I was just doing a basketball camp in Oakland in the East Bay and I got great advice from a Donald foil and he said, treat everyone you're with on your journey as if they're where you want to go. Like however you think you'll be where you get to whatever level you're supposed to be at. Treat everyone right now like it's them.
Tim Doyle (33:01.71)
So if you want to be in the NBA, treat whoever you're with now, like whatever you think that'll be. And so I was doing this camp and I just asked for a volunteer to do this little drill. Just one little hand, you know, just like pops up and I was like, okay, I'm gonna call on him. Little kid walks up and he was little, you know, we were doing a drill where all you had to do was throw a golf ball into a bucket. He was like, I got it. And he threw the golf ball in the bucket and it bounced right out. What he didn't know was it was a setup and I wanted to see what happened when it bounced out.
And it bounced out and he lost his mind, you know, it was like, and I said, what we're working on is how to miss. We call it next place speed. How fast can you bounce back? And he said, why are you teaching me how to miss? And I said, because if you're great, you miss half. If you're great, you miss half. So we have to practice for that to be really good at that. And he was like, okay. You know, and we just kind of like had, then he went back. and then a couple of years later.
MIDI high school in San Jose. They reached out to me. I'd known the head coach, Tim Kennedy for a while. He said, Hey man, we've got a kid coming here next year. Who's really different. He's special. He's going to, you know, the mental training would be great or whatever. And I was like, no, no problem. And at that point I'd seen good basketball players. I was like, whatever. And went down and did a workshop with them for the first time. And Aaron Gordon was there and he was 13. And at the end of the workshop, I said, any questions? And you know, nobody.
any questions. He was 13 on the varsity and his little hand popped up and he goes, I have no idea what you just said, but I know where I'm going. I need that. So I need you to do it again. And I was like, he is different. And I was like, he's different. And so that was us meeting at 13. And then six or seven years later, we were just connecting in San Francisco. I think it was the second year in the NBA and I was doing a workshop and I was talking about us meeting at 13 and he popped up in the middle of the workshop and he was like, Graham.
That was you. I was that 11 year old kid. And I was like, shit, because we didn't know. And in that moment, we realized we had met just at a camp. So my point is like, you never know what's in front of you, just do good work. Of course, everyone is thrilling to think about working with great players, but work, give to who's in front of you. Don't need something from them, give to them. And we're really connected with Aaron Gordon. This is the part about sales and all that, is I would go down to
Tim Doyle (35:21.998)
you know, drive to San Jose and teach for like 15 or 20 minutes. I always keep it short, sweet, then leave. And one day he followed me out and he was like, how come you don't need my validation? How come you come down here and you just give? And I was like, young man, cause what I have, you're looking for. I don't need anything from you. And that allowed us to connect. So another thing with sales, you can't need validation from anybody when you're doing this work, cause you have to know it yourself. And that opens up a lot of opportunities for people to come towards you because they feel safe with you that you don't need something from them.
He was just a little kid who was curious and then ended up meeting him later. And what I did, I was like, anyone who wanted me to mentor them, I just would. I'm like, if you're serious about this, I'll help you out. And so it's exciting to think about the MBA, but yes, if like wherever you want, whatever you want to do in life, say you want a million dollars, go help someone else make a million dollars. Like whatever you want, go help someone else get that. It's amazing what happens when you do that. Plus it's fun. It's joyous. And if you try to just get it for yourself, that's very small.
You try to do it for other people, it gets very big. It's abundance or scarcity. So which one do you want to do it? Another great story with another player you had given a talk at a basketball camp that Jalen Brown was at, but it wasn't until a year and a half later that Jalen reached out to you and just hearing you talk, you have this plant the seed long -term investment approach to your work. You've also said that.
you operate and think in 10 year cycles. What do you think has allowed you to have such a patient mind? I was like, I didn't have a choice, you know, for whatever reason, I was just aware this would work. So I was like, what am I going to do? Not do it. You know what I mean? I almost felt plagued by knowing this stuff because I was like, it's not sexy. What's sexy about taking your time and sticking with something for years and years and years like.
People want something now, something quick. So I was like, this is so boring. I don't take risks in life. I'm a super boring guy. I just trust the deep alignment. And of course you're thinking in 10 year windows. Of course you are. Cause there's no quick fix. There's no overnight success, right? It takes 10 years to be an overnight success. So once you just start thinking of being like an investor and you invest your energy, you're okay. Now, like I said, I literally just said I'm boring.
Tim Doyle (37:41.198)
and I don't take risks. People look at me and think I'm the craziest risk taker of all time. I'm not at all crazy and I don't take risks at all. I just follow the deepest intelligence. How's that crazy? You know what I mean? And I just stick with it. That's called devotion and dedication, right? That's where everything comes to fruition. So I think that's like the magic sauce, man, is really like sticking with it, you know, and being with the most amazing results come from that. But
You know, it requires a lot of it to do this. You have to live all the mental skills for sure. You gotta be living it. That's why it's an everyday thing with all the players that you work with. But I'm also especially curious with, you know, players that you've worked with who have gone to an extremely high level. Are there any common characteristics or traits that you've seen from players that really connect with this type of work? yeah, they're curious about it. They're curious and they want to do the work.
So when I was doing this work at a basketball camp, there was a bunch of great basketball players there. And all I would do is look around who was looking at me with curiosity. Little Jalen Brown was curious. You know, I mean, there's just a curiosity with some players. So to me, I'm like, if you have the curiosity and you go check it out, there's something there. Eventually, you have to get to this. By the time you're 40, you got no choice because you're going to realize this. But like the ones who are curious as a teenager, the ones who are curious in their 20s who are like, what is this?
You know, that's like the golden thing that I've noticed. And I never know who has that or who wants that. You know, that moment can happen at any moment. Someone can be curious about this stuff. And when that moment happens, the teacher arrives instantaneously in that moment as soon as you're curious. But I know it can be spontaneous, like it can happen at any moment, but I never know when it is. But all I look for is who's curious. And so that's what I've noticed. And they're curious, and then with that curiosity, they're courageous to go do the work.
And that leads to supreme confidence. Are there any players that you see who maybe aren't the most talented? Not necessarily people that you've worked with, but are there players that you see who maybe aren't the most talented, but you're like from a mental standpoint, like that guy's built very strong. It's funny. Like everyone in the NBA is supremely talented. You know, I just mean like there's they're just so good at their craft. Let's say.
Tim Doyle (40:04.046)
Everybody is mentally strong. When a Donald and I would talk, we would say, okay, you know, sports is 90 % mental. He goes, once you have the body, he goes, Graham, you come kind of play me one -on -one, I'll beat your ass all day. Like, no matter how sharp you are mentally, I will destroy you. I'm like, that's true. So there's a certain level of like, something's got to be there, right? You could have a great mental game, but you have to, you have to be there on some level. Where I do see a lot of this is like golf.
So golf is something that, like when I work with golfers, you don't necessarily have to be like seven feet tall. There's some sports where you're like, man, they're just like different humans almost. You know what I mean? There's like, say if you want to get into like the world's strongest man competition, you're like, these are some big dudes. You know what I mean? Like, this is like a different caliber human being. But with golfers in general, right? You're like, this is, you know, it's not.
Otherworldly like they work out lift weights. So what I noticed a lot of golfers is that once they click it in mentally it's it's profound what happens, you know, because they're like man I like This is the whole thing, you know, so I think in golf you can see a lot of that Where it may not be some physical thing where you're like noticeable physical difference to another human being they can come off as like a wreck, you know Kind of like regular human beings but mentally when they start to put it together when they then they start to win
You know tournaments, you know, so that I've said I've worked with some golfers that they kind of blow their own mind They're like, holy shit. I didn't realize if I get my mind right what happens and you're like, yeah. Yeah. yeah, then it really starts to click I've heard you say that with a lot of the work that you do It's like you're talking to your 14 year old self and telling him what he would need to hear back in the day Yeah, how much of your work is just an expression in a continuation of your own healing dream?
Probably all of it. You know what I mean? Probably everything we do here is just, I mean, we're all on the journey together. We're all here down here. And once you're aware of one level of consciousness, you just realize there's, you don't know anything and there's so much more to learn. So I like, we're all here together, Tim, doing this work, man. And I just see it as you just keep unfolding the layers and where I'm at, where I'm at at 46 is different than 36, you know, and hopefully in 10 years from now, hopefully I'm still here alive and healthy and like,
Tim Doyle (42:29.102)
I look back and I go, I don't even recognize my awareness on that place because I'm in a different place now. So what you learn after you know it all that counts, you know, that's like when it really starts. So I'm on this journey. I try to keep the white belt mentality where I'm always a beginner with black belt discipline, you know, serious discipline, but an open mind like a, like a, like a beginner, you know, that's how I try to approach it. Like I was just talking to a good friend today and we just talked about all things are possible today, like whole, and that's a lot.
Because when all things are possible, that's a lot. As opposed to you already know what's going to happen. You know, as you're like, man, I don't even know what's going to happen. You know, living in that space of the magic and being in that space. I try to do it every day. And anyone I train and work with, I'm like, basically what I tell them is I'm doing this with you. I'm just telling you what I'm practicing. Because this is the stuff I have to practice every day. Because it's an everyday practice. That's awesome. And I feel like that gets back to the point of what you were saying.
with Aaron Gordon, how he was asking you like, why aren't you looking for validation for me or anything? And it's almost like, you know, you're getting as much from the work as he is when you're teaching it. If not more, you know, if not more, I'm probably getting way more than anyone I've ever worked with. I'm such a student of this, you know, and going back to that validation thing, because we all need validation, man. And what I mean by that is like when I work with people, there's a moment where they're ready to validate themselves.
And so what I like don't need anyone's outside validation. It's because on that third level of intelligence, I'm getting profound validation, right? But it's not from the outside. Because if you're looking from the outside, it's never actually going to work. But from the inside, it's like a ping that resonates and you're like, there's the validation. So I'd be leaving teaching, driving an hour each way to teach for 15 minutes and leaving to my car. I was on fire going to my car like.
Feeling a validation and a resonance that was so powerful. So when he was like, hey, don't you need me? I'd be like, man, no, not at all. And I don't mean that disrespectfully. I'm like, I can feel it from inside. So as you learn to do that, that becomes, I mean, that's the actual thing that's playing the beautiful music inside of you. You don't need outside validation from that. You just need to be able to hear it every day so you can follow it. And to me, that's what a servant based leader is. You're serving that thing. When I train anyone, I'm like, if you're following me,
Tim Doyle (44:54.862)
Nope, I fucked up. You need to be following that thing inside of you. Anything I'm doing is guiding you to that. Anytime you're working with someone, this is just my own opinion, and they're guiding you to them, nope. They need to be guiding you back to yourself. Now you might follow them for a while to learn to practice, but the ultimate training should be, do you hear it yourself? So when I sense that someone's getting not too close to me, but they're way into what I'm teaching and shit, I will cut that and be like, if you follow me, you're not following your deepest intelligence, you're gonna get in big trouble.
And that's something out there for people. If someone's ever telling you to follow them, you know, they don't know what's going on. Now, if they're like, follow me so you can hear it yourself. Okay. I get it. But ultimately someone should be guiding you towards your own intelligence system that validates itself. That's connected to this great universe. If they're telling you, Hey, follow me. I'm I got the way, you know, you know, right away. They have no idea. Another great sports psychologist, George Mumford. He worked with Phil Jackson, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant.
I know you know him as well. When you when you met Michael Jordan, what was the impact of him telling you that George had saved his life? man, it was so awesome, man. It was just like when I was a kid, I was 11 years old when I kind of discovered Michael Jordan in sixth grade, you know, it was the 80s. And I was like, well, this is so amazing. And I never got to watch him play live, even though I was around basketball a lot. So, you know, Aaron took me to a party. I don't get to go to those parties, you know, but Aaron invited me to go to one of them. And.
I just remember being behind Aaron and he goes, hey man, it's Mike. And I was like, shit. Like I knew, I knew that was Michael Jordan. And then, you know, Aaron went to the side and there was Michael Jordan and I shook his hand and it was just such an incredible moment. And I said, what George is to you, I am to Aaron. And then I'll never forget. And he was like, George saved my life, you know, in his raspy voice. And I was like, whoa, nobody knows that people think you're just born some superhuman or something. It's like, no, man, you were working with this guy.
And of course, George is like, you know, it's like a living sage. You know what I mean? It's like getting to be around, you know, someone like that. I think, you know, as in his eighties, another one is Jerry Lynch. These guys are just unbelievable. Their spirit's so high vibration. They're like my, that's where I want to be. If I get to be in my eighties, you know, I want to be doing that. So, it was pretty cool to meet Michael Jordan, man. You know, that was, that was like a fun, fun experience. Do you think that's one of the beauties of sports psychology or one of the.
Tim Doyle (47:22.67)
driving points behind it by how it's kind of like a largely behind the scenes, not in the spotlight dynamic. And do you think like someone like yourself really plays into that? I mean, that's where the work is dead behind the scenes. I think this needed to have like for me putting myself out there all these years and that was my service to the world. None of that was comfortable. I hated doing the interviews. I hated doing all of that, but I was like, if we don't bring a voice, if we don't bring this out loud, then
people are gonna suffer in silence, so that's criminal to me. So it was kind of like a scary thing for me because mostly people don't talk about this shit. And I was like, that's criminal, that's terrible. So we're gonna start talking about it. And if we talking about it as proactive mental skills training and people are doing it, it's a good thing. But that was a lot of work for me. I felt very uncomfortable in the field doing that. I felt like, but that was kind of my role is to kind of use as much grace as I could.
to bring this to the world. Like in me, the mission was normalized mental training. So bring it out, like bring it out, make it normal, talk about it, make it into everyday skills. We can practice the same time for me. That was really hard work, you know, to do that, just because it was so uncomfortable. And believe it or not, I'm an introvert. Like I'm a natural introvert and I don't even like putting myself out there. And, but I do that because I know that's my service and it's weird. Like I'm really good at it too. So it's weird to be really good at something that you're not really even comfortable with, but.
I know I'm good at it, so I own that shit. And I'm like, go ahead, put it out. So you would, like I said earlier, you would start working with kids and they work their ways up to being great college players and then NBA players. What was the adjustment like for you working with teams like the Utah Jazz, Sacramento Kings, Yukon men's team, where now the starting point was you were working with.
young adults and grown men who were already at the peak of what they were playing. You know, I just at that point had it pretty simple, you know, so it was like just just teach them like their kids. And when you teach people like their kids, they appreciate it and not in a disrespectful way, but it's joyful and fun. And I mean, it's it's simple, you know, like the work with Yukon. It's just it's really simple. You know, you just keep it really simple for people. In the NBA, there was a lot of travel, so that was challenging for me.
Tim Doyle (49:45.582)
That was my last year was the year before, like my last year was SAC. That was it for me. It was a cool experience, but couldn't do it anymore. Just with all the travel with Yukon, I do everything from home and I do it all over zoom and I do it like a radio show where I just give them a 20 minute session. So it's really like, I just got it down to a pretty simple language. Now it gets almost easier with older people that you're talking to, like doing it with kids is the hard part, right? Notoriously, my hardest part was kindergarteners.
But recently I feel way better than with kindergartners because we got it down to palms down, right? The opposite of this and all kindergartners can do this. So now I can teach it with body language and they all get it like, don't do this. Choose your response. And they're like, yes. You know, so all my work with kids was like, by the time you're talking to an 18 year old, like say at Yukon, they're serious about basketball. They're trying to be good at this. They love it. A 14 year old, that's tough because they may not, you know, so.
The strategy obviously is like the sooner you start practicing this stuff, the better you're going to get at it, right? So that's the idea with kids. It's like we don't teach kids the ABCs when they're 18 years old, right? We teach kids the ABCs when they're, you know, really young, you start practicing. So if we can start doing this stuff proactively like that, it helps. But now working with like adults in a lot of ways that can be easier. Sometimes if they're already way in their groove and they're really successful at what they do, it can be challenging.
to kind of change some of those grooves a little bit. But I mean, there's challenges at every level, but in general, once you get to an 18 year old, you can like talk to them a lot more because they have like life experience a little bit. What's the premise of Palms Down? Instead of reacting mindlessly to everything, choose your response. And it's just powerful body language. Me and Aaron Gordon, we were one day, we were like, why does everyone do this thing? And it looks so pathetic all the time. And he was like, I do this shit too. Like it's awful.
because we're not present, you're reacting to something out of your control. It's like the worst moment. So it just was hit him like, man, choose your response, palms down. And it became a move. And we were like, palms down is so simple. So now I teach palms down to police officers, the US Navy sales professionals, you name it, parents, like palms down is like, to me, the entryway of mental training because everyone knows what it feels like just to be reacting to something. And you go, that doesn't really, that's not it. If we can choose our response, take that breath.
Tim Doyle (52:09.87)
Now we're on the right path. So you've stepped away from the basketball side of things and have taken a more creative artistic approach to your work through music. And I think a lot of people could call you a coach, a mentor, a psychologist, but you've always said, I think I've always been an artist. And I don't think there are many people.
who would allow themselves to evolve like this, especially given the type of people that you were working with and especially how much time you had put into this type of work over the years. What do you think was the driving force behind this personal evolution? Remember, I'm always listening to the deepest intelligence I have, right? So I just keep listening to it and it just was calling me to music.
And over and over again, just call me and call me. And when I listen and I just listen to it and I commit to it, make space for it to happen. You got to say no to other shit and you make space for it. So making space means you really saying no to other stuff. And you're only saying yes to the yes, yes. And the yes, yes is the deepest one that you want to do. And music just wanted to come out. And I look at it now, like I make about 60 to 70 beats a month. I feel like I'm like a full time music producer and I just, I just make tons of beats.
One of my friends was like, man, like, imagine if you got into this earlier. And I was like, earlier, what are you talking about? Like, I'm following the deepest intelligence. I'm all I'm on time. This is exactly how it's supposed to be. I became a music producer at 45 years old. What that does for people is it helps them realize the stories you've been told about timing and about how fast those are all bullshit. You have to follow your deepest intelligence and it'll gracefully lead you towards where you want to go. So.
I just do that. I listen to it and do it. So it's not like I'm making a logical decision because it makes no sense at all. You're like, why would you do it? You just built this whole thing up in this space. I'm like, and? You know what I mean? Am I going to hold on to that? As soon as you start holding on, you're gone anyway. That's what happens when people get a whole bunch of success or make money, right? They make a billion dollars and then grip to it out of fear. I'm like, you're screwed. You're in big trouble.
Tim Doyle (54:32.302)
And so I call it the bottom, bottom line. The bottom, bottom line is the one that I follow and that's the deep alignment. So the music thing, I'm more curious to see where it goes. I'm curious to see how it all works. I'm more curious now. I don't even have goals. I mean, my goal is to follow the alignment, but like, I don't have a personal goal. I just want to see, see what it all does. And I'm curious to see if I keep doing the work, what's happening. You know what I mean? Like, so it's the gift of the unknown.
And that's how you make great discoveries. So I'm curious what I'm about to discover. Keep doing this music thing. And it all ties in. I call it like mindset music. You know, it's all stuff in the mindset space. But, you know, it all just kind of brings itself together. And I feel like I was an athlete learning athlete discipline. So to live as an artist, which means you got to live free, but you have the athlete discipline. And what makes a great athlete? They perform like an artist. What makes a great artist? They train like an athlete.
There's plenty of artists that do everything, but take the shot, but actually release the art, everything up to that. And there's plenty of athletes that do all the training, but don't let themself be free in performance. They don't become an artist. You know what I mean? You got to do both. And then now I'm bringing that all to business. So I actually think my artistry and athleticism, those two things were to learn all that and bring it to business. Cause now I coach a bunch of CEOs and if I can help companies build cultures with this, it's amazing what happens when they do that. So.
I'm curious, Tim, to see where it goes, but CEOs call me all the time now and that's who I train a lot. And so like, apparently it's going all to business. Yeah. I'm a big believer that we always talk about personal development, but I think a phrase that really does never gets used is personal evolution where.
Yes, I believe that you need to pick a thing and focus and obsess on that one thing and build it up for many years. Like you did with your mental skills coaching. But I think that can also be risky and challenging in a way, because I think the further we get down that path, we don't allow ourselves to evolve or start from the beginning on new paths. And it's awesome to hear you see,
Tim Doyle (56:52.43)
you do that with your music, what have you discovered about yourself thus far within music that you really didn't learn about yourself just through mental skills coaching? man, that I love making beats and I'm good at it. Like I really didn't know that at all. And I mean that humbly. I'd be sending out, I was trying to like put coaching over. I was like, I'll just use music to share the mental training because people listen to music. And so I was doing that.
And a couple artists were like, Hey, Graham, who makes your beats? And I was like, I do. And they were like, what the fuck, man? Like you made that. And then I was like, my beats are better than what I'm saying. I was like, Huh, that's interesting. I thought I was good at talking. And they're like, yeah, you know, you're okay. But they were like, man, that beat, that was something. And I was like, so I was like, maybe I'm good at this. You know? And so I just, it was just, it was something I just became really curious about. And then you just kind of follow it.
You know, and you keep going with it. Because to me, making 50, 60 beats a month, dude, that's just a pleasure for me. Like literally, it's a pleasure. Just the experience of doing it is so much joy. I don't even care what happens after I make them. And so I know that's kind of like if you find that in life, whatever is making you feel really good doing it and then you just do it, man. Because now I'm looking back, I've made like four or five hundred beats. I'm like, yeah, man, shit starts to get good. You start getting numbers up. Of course, that gets good. But I've also realized that every 60 beats I make,
I don't think any are bad, but like 95 % are just, eh, you know what I mean? Like, eh. And then you'll find like five of them and you're like, ooh, those five, those five have something. And so again, it goes back to the like sales. Most of the stuff I make, it's not gonna make the cut. So I'm never trying to make a great song and I'm never avoiding making a shitty song. I'm like, just go enjoy the process, be present, make some music while you're here, before you pick your kids up from school and that's it. And then I send it to all my friends.
It's like an artist, I send that shit out. I'm like, now I have to deal with it. They're like, ugh. And people won't say it's bad, they just won't put a heart on it when you text them the song. You know what I mean? And you're like, I've just sent this artist 20 beats and not one of them has a heart on it. You know what that means. And then one gets a heart and you're like, they must like that one. And you just go through the experience of putting it out. That's awesome. Great. Where can people go to find you and support all your work? man, right on. Well, capitolacoaching .com. That's my coaching business.
Tim Doyle (59:18.798)
Check it out. Music wise, I'm on all streaming platforms under Graham the guide, G -U -I -D -E. So get all the music there. I have a basketball mental training gym I do every Sunday. It's called Palms Down and it's for youth basketball players. So if you got kids out there and want to check it out, I'm there live every Sunday. So we do a class every Sunday. Hit me up on there if you want to stay in touch, man. But.
Also, I work with police officers and we're just opening our business. It's called Conscious Energy Officer. And my goal is to train all police officers with these skills because I've trained a few and what I've found is they're able to deescalate situations from within. So they come up to a scene working on being present, working on calming everything from within. And it's amazing what happens when they do that. They lower use of force, they increase connection and engagement and trust. They feel good.
And now they have real tools to actually work a situation. So I never thought I'd be making music or helping cops. You know what I mean? I was like, I'm going to be doing basketball and that's that. And it was like, man, this, you stay on this journey. It's amazing what happens. And real quick, like letting go of basketball when it gets really big, that was hard. So it's important to recognize when you're following your deepest intelligence and you're just joyfully doing it, success is going to happen.
Right, and when success happens, your ego goes, what's this? I don't want to lose that. And you got to remember, we got to stay in touch with our deepest thing or else we'll lose it all. So you kind of have to do that dance because this mental training, every time you level up in life to something new and maybe you got rid of your ego before and you've quieted it so you could do this work. Anytime you level up, something happens, that ego comes back and goes, see, you should listen to me.
And it's really cunning and really sneaky. So you got to be aware of it because I'll train people and they'll be like, Grant, this is amazing. Just got this massive contract and this stuff happens. shit. Here's all my fear again. And I'm like, yeah, you're at a new level. And now you got to prove again that you know how to be present. You know how to trust, you know how to accept results like your training never stops. Like you go into a weight room and a certain weight feels comfortable. What happens after that? Probably got to use a different weight. So and then you're back to like,
Tim Doyle (01:01:40.142)
And that never stops, you know, so keep know I'm doing this work with you. I do it every day with you. Let's do it together. You have some, some days are tougher than others. You know what I mean? It's just normal life, man. But if we woke up today, let's do it today. You know, why not? I love it. Graham. I, I appreciate you coming from coming on the out worker. Thank you, Tim, for having me. Thank you for the great work you're doing. Keep inspiring people, man. And I'll come back anytime, bro.
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