#014 - Joe Rinaldi - Finding Strength In Struggle

Joe Rinaldi, founder of Project Endure, opens up about his personal journey of growth through vision loss, quitting alcohol in college, and ultimately leaving a promising physical therapy career to pursue entrepreneurship. He shares his unique perspectives on embracing struggles, delaying gratification, and the courageous decision to bet on himself despite being offered his dream job. Get ready to be inspired by Joe's authentic storytelling about finding purpose, building a brand with impact, and learning life's biggest lessons through unexpected challenges.

Timestamps:
00:39 Story Behind the Nickname 'Rocks'
02:38 The Power of Podcasting and Asking Good Questions
05:23 Understanding Best Disease and Dealing with Sight Loss
06:47 Processing the Diagnosis and Feeling Different
08:23 The Difference Between Helpless and Hopeless
11:22 Embracing Uniqueness and Being Authentic
13:39 The Challenges of Not Drinking in College
28:09 The Darkest Time of Life and Overcoming Doubts
33:09 Faith and Personal Transformation
35:39 Life in Grad School and Finding Support
36:20 The Importance of Public Speaking and Caring for Others
37:53 Doubts About the Path of Becoming a Physical Therapist
40:29 Identity Beyond Titles and Careers
42:51 The Meaning of 'Project' in Project Endure
45:45 Chasing a Feeling with Project Endure
48:26 Turning Down a Dream Job and Betting on Yourself
50:45 Lessons from Childhood and the Importance of Not Giving Up
51:53 Separating Self from Project Endure
54:00 Balancing Delayed Gratification with Living in the Present 
55:42 The Support of a Spouse in Entrepreneurship
58:13 Narrowing the Focus for Project Endure's Growth
59:30 Separating from the Pack and Bringing Others Along
01:01:33 The Vision of Project Endure

Thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate your time and support. Let me know what you thought of the episode and what you would like to see in the future. Any feedback would be awesome. Don't forget to subscribe for more exciting content on YouTube, and leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever platform you are listening on.

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Transcript

What’s up Outworkers. Joe Rinaldi, founder of Project Endure, opens up about his personal journey of growth through vision loss, quitting alcohol in college, and ultimately leaving a promising physical therapy career to pursue entrepreneurship. He shares his unique perspectives on embracing struggles, delaying gratification, and the courageous decision to bet on himself despite being offered his dream job. Get ready to be inspired by Joe's authentic storytelling about finding purpose, building a brand with impact, and learning life's biggest lessons through unexpected challenges.

Tim (00:08.919)

What's the significance behind the nickname rocks?

Joe Rinaldi (00:12.462)

You did your research. Wow. I'm impressed. okay. So when I was in elementary school, I want to say fifth grade, I played football, I played football my whole childhood. And before practice one day, our coach was late. So me and all the other kids started, you know, throwing rocks at each other because that's what you do when you're, you know, 10 years old. And, one of us hit a car with a rock. It was not me for the record.

I know who it was and, our coach came and heard that we had hit a car with a rock and asked who did it and nobody was fessing up to it. And so after, I don't know, 30 seconds of just discomfort, I stepped up and I said, it was me. And so, my coach pulled me up in front of the team and he said, you know, thank you, Joe, for, for, you know, saying that it was you. And as a team, we win together, we lose together, we have fun together and we get in trouble together.

So everybody's running laps and we ran. And from that point on, my nickname was rocks for Naldy.

Tim (01:16.311)

Did your coach ever find out that it wasn't you?

Joe Rinaldi (01:19.182)

Unless he's listening to this podcast, I don't believe so. But, but yeah, I took the fall and, I'm not, not mad about it. You know, I think at the end of the day, it was a good lesson for all of us and, coach Dugan, if you're listening, it was, it was not me.

Tim (01:35.159)

What made you have the confidence or just the feeling of, all right, I guess I'll fess up to something I didn't do?

Joe Rinaldi (01:42.19)

I think I've always had a little bit of that in me and I don't know if I would call it confidence. I think it's, you know, I'm willing to sacrifice myself for other people, maybe to a fault at times. And, at 10 years old, it was probably a mix of that and just being so uncomfortable with that silence of our coach waiting to see who it was. But I would say it's more of a me sacrificing myself rather than a confidence.

Tim (02:08.599)

So you're the first person I've had on who also has a podcast. And this has been probably the one of the most fulfilling things that I've ever started in my life. Just being able to talk to a lot of very interesting people who have very interesting stories or do very interesting work. And you've recorded a little over 200 episodes between your old podcast Pursuit and now your current podcast, the project indoor podcast.

What have you learned through the entire experience of podcasting?

Joe Rinaldi (02:41.486)

Hmm. That's a great question. You know, over hundreds of conversations on podcasts, as well as just all of the calls I have every week with my clients, I think that, a good question can unlock a lot. You know, when you ask a good question, you can really dive deep into somebody's mind, their psyche, how they see the world.

And through conversation, I feel like I learn more about myself sometimes than I do about the other person. Even though I am so genuinely curious about the other person, when you get a chance to ask what you want and hear people's responses, it also acts as somewhat of a mirror back to you and you get to reflect for yourself. And I've grown so much through the podcast and through the conversations. So I think it's really all just been a really amazing learning experience about how my mind works.

through the lens of other people.

Tim (03:39.127)

Yeah, it's really interesting to hear you say that just about how there's such a power behind asking questions. One of my first guests was Luke Corrala, who's a college strength coach who was the strength coach for athletes like Dak Prescott. He was the 2018 college strength coach of the year. And now he's coaching at Charlotte. And one of the main things that he does is that he has 20 interview questions that he

ask every single player that he's ever coached. And he said, like you were saying, it's the exact same thing where you can unlock features of people that you don't necessarily are able to unlock if you're just coaching them or if you're their boss. So that's really interesting to hear you say that as well. So getting into more of your life and some numbers that I'm going to throw at you here, 0 .00

6 % or in other words that's one divided by 15 ,000 or in other words that's the number of people who deal with best disease and you are that one in 15 ,000. Can you explain for people who may not know what best disease is?

Joe Rinaldi (05:01.71)

Yeah. I mean, as soon as you started sharing those numbers, I knew where you were going because I've, I've done that research as well. And what's really interesting is that out of those one in 15 ,000 that are affected, or, or carry the condition, not all of them are affected by it. and so best disease is a genetic condition that causes progressive loss of central site. And so in other words, from a very young age,

I've been dealing with, sight loss, or in other words, I'm on a path toward blindness. And, what I was saying about not everyone being affected, there are people who have this condition who don't lose sight from it until well into their adulthood. Whereas people like me sometimes are affected, as a child. And so it varies widely and, I'll get into it. I'm sure with future questions, but, I'm not upset about it.

Tim (05:59.159)

Yeah, definitely. And that's definitely something I want to ask about you down the line in our conversation and how it's affected you as you have grown. But I'm curious to know just sticking from when you first got the diagnosis as a young kid and being in that mind as a very young kid, how did you process this when you were diagnosed at 10 years old?

Joe Rinaldi (06:25.55)

So I've been asked this question a handful of times before, and I don't know if I've ever had a great answer because the truth is when I look back to when I was diagnosed, I think a big part of me blacked it out. I remember the morning I woke up, I was 10, and it was a school day. And as I opened my eyes, I realized that I couldn't see out of my right eye anymore.

And so my parents took me into New York city. We scrambled around, saw a bunch of different specialists, had a bunch of different tests done. And eventually at the end of a very long day, I was diagnosed with best disease and I actually had a procedure or a laser surgery to, to help stop some of the site loss that was happening in that moment. And so that was such a whirlwind and I don't remember what I felt. I I'm sure I was afraid. I'm sure I was.

confused, overwhelmed. But what I do remember is the rest of my childhood and my teenage years. And I remember feeling so different from everyone else on the inside. And at the same time, all I wanted to do was fit in. And so here I was with this internal conflict, this internal struggle that nobody else could see. And I just did everything in my power to not let anyone else know about it, which is very different from how I live my life now.

Tim (07:49.719)

You've said while I sometimes still feel helpless, I never feel hopeless because I know that everything is happening for me. What do you see as the difference between being helpless and hopeless?

Joe Rinaldi (08:02.094)

Ooh, man. Well, when I was diagnosed as a kid, I did feel like a victim. you know, I, I felt sorry for myself. I felt like the world was unfair and why should I be dealing with this? And in a lot of ways I felt helpless because I didn't see a path to change what I was dealing with, right? I couldn't change the fact that I was losing my sight. There is no cure for this at the moment. And so.

I felt helpless. I felt like a victim, but I didn't feel hopeless because I had people who cared about me and I could still do things, right? I could still play sports. And while I couldn't continue playing baseball the way I wanted, I could switch and play football. while I couldn't, you know, sit at the back of the classroom and still read the chalkboard, I still could control where I sat and I would go to the front and I could do that. So I realized that I wasn't helpless.

or I wasn't as helpless as I thought I was. But the hope really came in down the line when I was able to look back and connect the dots. I think whenever we're faced with something that's new, uncertain, or challenging, it's hard to look forward and understand how this is gonna impact our lives in a positive way because it hasn't happened yet. And so after I had 10 years of this diagnosis under my belt, I could look back and understand, okay,

This thing that I once felt was a burden is actually a blessing because it redirected my path in all of these very positive ways. And so through this process, I really come to see a lot of hope and I don't see myself as helpless anymore. I actually see this as a huge blessing.

Tim (09:44.951)

You touched on it a little bit earlier there, how when you first got the diagnosis for best disease, you just really wanted to fit in, but you felt different. How do you think looking back on it now, how do you think best disease has helped you get into the mindset of being a unique, one of a kind, authentic self rather than conforming and fitting in?

Joe Rinaldi (10:10.99)

Yeah. So I'll tell a bit of a longer story here, but I think this all will make sense in the end. So when I was a child, like I had mentioned, I just wanted to fit in. I went through the remainder of my childhood and high school years, doing a pretty good job actually of fitting in. And I felt normal in a lot of ways. like I mentioned, I played football. So culture where I went to high school was you.

play football on the weekends. And then after the game is over, you go party. and I spent a lot of time in high school drinking and hanging out with a crowd of people who, who like to do that kind of thing. And, so eventually when I went to college, I realized that drinking wasn't something I wanted in my life anymore. And I made the decision to stop drinking right when everybody else around me was making the decision to start drinking. And it was a very lonely time in my life.

And it was the first time since I was diagnosed as a child where I really felt different again. And so this time I started to embrace that feeling of being different. Instead of hiding it from everybody else, like I did as a child, I started to actually lean into that. And so while everyone else was out partying on a Friday night, I would be in the gym working out. And while everyone else was hung over on a Saturday morning, I would go to the library and study. And I spent so much time alone.

And I didn't exactly know what I was doing with that. I didn't know why I was leaning so much into that. But in hindsight, I realized that I was becoming the person I had always wanted to be. And in order to get there, it just required me to be on that journey by myself for a little while until I started to find the right people. And so, you know, through it all, I think being different is actually a superpower.

And by losing my sight and struggling with this thing that nobody else can see, I've realized that we all have these struggles, right? And I'm not the only one who's struggling with something. We all have those things. And I think that leaning into our struggles allows them to become strengths. And so, yeah, my eyes have been, for lack of a better term, an eye opener to show me that being different isn't a bad thing. It's actually a really, really good thing.

Tim (12:30.135)

I don't want to spend the entire conversation talking about alcohol, but I definitely would love to dive deep into that. How much of a struggle was it for you at first when not drinking in college?

Joe Rinaldi (12:44.75)

Yeah. so for, for a little bit more context, I went to Bucknell university. That's where I started my college experience. And, I was putting a room with three other guys. And so we had this, I don't know, 15 foot by 20 foot room. It was just a big box and we had four beds and, the first semester we drank a lot, you know, I would go out and we would party on the weekends, try to get into parties, get kicked out, just find where that, whatever alcohol we could.

And I realized I just didn't feel great. You know, I, I reflected a bit and I realized I never had just one drink in my life. I either had zero drinks or I had enough drinks to make me blackout. And, I have that trait, you know, I have that trait where I, I, when I do things, I go all in, whether it's exercise or business or schoolwork, or in this case, drinking. And so I made that decision after the first semester.

Simultaneously, I walked onto the football team. So now I stopped drinking. I am now around people who are drinking. I'm living with them. And at the same time, I'm trying to fit in with this new group of guys on the football team. And it was a really, really challenging chapter. I didn't miss the drinking, to be honest. I didn't miss feeling hung over multiple days a week. What I missed was an easy way to bond with other people. Right.

it was so easy to have some alcohol in your system and to be around other people who are doing the same. And, you know, it was just more comfortable that way. And what I had to learn the hard way is how to have conversations, be genuinely curious about other people and make connections sober, with a new group of people who I wasn't used to being around. And so that was the hard part for me, but at the same time, I really never looked back, you know, the day I stopped drinking alcohol, it was in January of 2013.

I've never craved it. I've never wanted it. I've never been jealous of people who drink it. And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it, but it just doesn't serve the person I'm becoming. And I'm okay with that.

Tim (14:53.015)

the exact same way as you. And I mean, I would never say that I identify as a sober person. I would just say I rarely drink. I mean, I probably have, you know, two or three times a year that I'll drink if even. And I think that's a really interesting point that you said that and on the same way. And I think there's a lot of people who it's not the drinking that they're one that

hurts stopping like the physical act of drinking, but it's more so the social aspects and the isolating aspect aspect and going a spot even deeper than that is just being lonely or alone at times where it can be very difficult not having that easy access to that because that's what drinking can provide. Whether you're going out with friends or bars.

What advice would you give to somebody who is going through that right now?

Joe Rinaldi (15:54.574)

I have so much. You know, I think the first thing to realize is that the people who truly care about you, your actual friends, the people who want the best for you, they'll understand no matter what. If you're going to make a decision that's best for you, those people that actually matter in your life, they will understand. You know, it might mean that you spend less time with them. That's possible, but they will respect and understand that decision.

You know, I think the other thing to recognize is that, you know, and I'll go with a quote because I think it's the easiest way to explain this. It's one of my favorites. It's from Frederick Niche who said, those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music. And the truth is if you're dancing or listening to different music from the people around you, then you're going to get some weird looks. You know, you might not get invited to all the parties.

And that's okay. I think on the path to becoming the authentic version of whoever you want to be, you have to be willing to be misunderstood. And that's probably the biggest superpower I can think of when it comes to going through those college years. You have to be willing for people to not understand you. And that's okay. You have to stick to what your guts telling you because you don't want to look back five, 10, 15 years and regret the person you became.

just because you did what was easiest or popular.

Tim (17:23.063)

One of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite podcasters, Chris Williamson says, alcohol is the only drug where if you don't do it, people assume you have a problem. And I think it's so fascinating that people will look at you very weird if you don't drink. But if you say, I'm an alcoholic, that's the only time where it becomes kind of a hundred percent. Okay. For, okay. That's the reason why he's not drinking.

Joe Rinaldi (17:34.926)

That's good.

Tim (17:52.055)

And like you were saying, I think as time goes on, at least from my own personal experience, you kind of buy into wanting to look like the weird person. You want to feel like, yeah, I am that different type of person and I am going to go down my own path because I think it also allows for you to find those other types of people. And when you're your most authentic selves, you're giving off that energy that's allowing other people to be.

your most authentic self. And I've had experiences where if I'm being a fake version of myself, I'm just going to attract other people who potentially are being a fake version of themselves as well.

Joe Rinaldi (18:34.702)

That's so well said. you know, and I think the other thing is a lot of people, I'll use myself as an example in college. So rewind, this is, I feel old, but rewind, you know, 10 years, let's just say, okay. I am now being different from everyone else, you know, and there might be people who are going out to parties and wondering, you know, where's Joe, what's he up to? I always the library. That's lame. Right.

I've seen how those people now, they're the ones who follow my social media and send me messages and ask me questions. How did you do this? How do you look like this? How are you building a business like that? How did you change your mindset to be like this? Because at some point along the line, whether it's when you're in college, when you're 10 years out of college, or when you're 50 years old, right?

Most of us don't want to be that person who's out partying all the time. We care about different things. We care about our health. We care about our finances. We care about our relationships. And really what I see, you know, the past 10 years for me, I just did what a lot of people want to do later on in life. And I just did it earlier than everyone. And I think, you know, in that way, difference, not a bad thing. And I would go as far as saying crazy is a good thing because if normal is working a desk job that you hate,

being out of shape, being generally unhappy with the way life is unfolding, I don't want to be normal if that's normal. I would much rather be crazy.

Tim (20:10.807)

Yeah, and I think you're seeing brands like athletic brewing now where it's becoming much more trendy or much more hip and cool to not drink alcohol, which is obviously a great thing. But I think not that it has a negative effect, but like you said, there are people who were doing this far before it ever became the trendy thing to do now. Do you think if you continued playing football?

that you would have been more likely to continue drinking because I know, like you said, you walked onto the football team at Bucknell, but you made a tackle and lost large chunk of your site. Do you think if that never happened, you would have been more likely to continue drinking?

Joe Rinaldi (21:00.27)

Hmm. That's an interesting question. From a timeline standpoint, I had made the decision to stop drinking right as I was walking onto the football team. So at that point I had already committed to not drinking. And I want to say that I would have stayed true to that no matter what, whether football ended or football continued. but the truth is, right, even, and this is, it's funny to look back on, you know, even in a setting where there's a division one,

sports team, and those are competitive athletes. Some of them are on scholarship, right? They're that good. They're that in shape. They're that focused. Those people were some of the hardest partiers that I ever met. And so I think I would have stayed true to it. But yeah, if I continued to play football, I would have been closer with a lot of people who were still drinking and partying, which would have made it tough.

Tim (21:55.159)

That's what I find so fascinating how there's so many great athletes, especially college athletes who, like you said, you know, it gets into the play hard, party hard mindset. I always had the thought because I didn't play college athletics, but I would always see a college athlete like at a party and I would always like think to myself like how much better could that person be? Like how much more of a gap could there be if they didn't drink? Like if they went.

All in.

Joe Rinaldi (22:27.374)

This is where I could talk about this forever, but I'll try to keep it brief. It's kind of...

Tim (22:35.319)

Go as in, go as in depth as you want, honestly, because I think this is such an important topic to be talking about, especially now, because I think there are a lot of people who struggle with this type of stuff and they don't know who to talk to, especially because I think there are a lot of people who just keep it to themselves. And like you said, it can be very isolating and very lonely. So when there's people like you or like me who are in that isolated sort of solitude setting,

it becomes that much harder to find other people like that. So go as in depth as you want.

Joe Rinaldi (23:10.19)

Thanks, man. You know, I just think that the bar is so low right now for a lot of things. To be excellent isn't that hard. You know, if you show up on time, if you do consistent work, if you're good to people, right, that is excellence these days. And I'll use you as an example, actually, right? You reached out at a time of life where things were just chaotic for me, like,

absolutely chaotic. And I said, Hey, I would love to be on the podcast, but we might have to push it back like two or three months or whatever I said. And two or three months goes by and you send another super well -written, simple message. Hey, if now's a good time, I'd love to still have you on the podcast. So we schedule it. Right. And then again, I get caught in a crazy week and I messaged you the day of the morning of and say, I'm so sorry, man, but can we push this back one week?

Again, like super respectful. You're like, no problem at all. Let's do it. When's good for you. And here we are. Right. That line, that string of communication, it's not complicated. It's not hard, but nobody does it like that. And that stands out, especially to someone like me who also operates like that. And so my point is if anybody out there wants to be excellent in anything that they do, you kind of just have to show up, be consistent, communicate well, you know, care about other people.

And that will set you apart and the bar feels so low. And that's a sad thing to say, but for people like you and me, Tim, and anyone else listening to this podcast who wants to be like that or already is like that, it just means there's so much room to run above the norm. and that gets me excited, you know,

Tim (24:57.207)

Definitely. And like you said, the basic stuff is the most important to execute on because I think you think about how when you see extraordinary people and you see that they're doing stuff that you think is incredible stuff, you're like, what's the secret recipe that they have? And I think it's just being so dedicated and obsessed over the most basic minute details that you would never think about. And it just comes down to getting your reps in.

How many times are you going to do the same things over and over for year after year, just perfecting your craft? And what I always like to say, and I'm a big workout guy as well, you know, Tom Brady didn't find a thousand ways to throw a football. He found his perfect form and he just did that day after day for his entire life. And I feel like that's the same as what you were talking about.

Joe Rinaldi (25:53.166)

A hundred percent. And I think people get discouraged easily when they don't see the results they want right away. And one of, I think the favorite things that I, let me rephrase this. One of my favorite traits that I don't know if I chose for myself, I think I've just always had this, is the ability to suffer and struggle without the need for a break or for a reward. It's the ability to delay gratification.

And, I just see the big picture, right? Little by little, little becomes a lot. And I think a lot of people get discouraged when, you know, they're a week into a journey, they're a month into an adventure, they're a year into a process and they don't see what they want to see, or they don't have what they want to have. And you just sometimes need to be there for longer. And I think too many people quit right before they get what they wanted the whole time. And that's a really sad thing to see. And.

I have a quote that I'd love to read. It's from Jacob Reese and it's one of my favorites. He said, when nothing seems to help, I go and look at the stone cutter hammering away at his rock, perhaps a hundred times without as much as a crack showing in it. Yet at the hundred and first blow it will split into. And I know it was not that blow that did it, but all that had gone before. And that is so romantic to me.

And I will bang my head against the wall a hundred times until I get to that hundred and first blow where it wasn't my head and it wasn't a wall. It was a rock that cracks in half and I get what I want.

Tim (27:31.223)

So good.

So you end up transferring to Rutgers from Bucknell and there was a pivotal day in that final year at Rutgers, January 21st, 2016. Walk me through that day.

Joe Rinaldi (27:51.31)

Man, you have done your research. I actually don't remember the date off the top of my head if we're thinking about the same thing. So I'll tell the story and hopefully I'm right. I was driving to the gym and okay, cool. I was driving to the gym. I was living at home with my parents in Westfield, New Jersey and it's a couple minute drive. It's real simple back roads and...

Tim (28:06.775)

You are correct.

Joe Rinaldi (28:18.478)

I was going down a road I drive on every single day and there was a car that ended up running a stop sign at a T or just a regular intersection and their car was going pretty quick. It hit the front corner of my car and my car rolled a couple of times, but all I remember was seeing out of the corner of my eye, this thing coming so quick, feeling the impact, grabbing the steering wheel.

feeling the airbag come into my face. And I mean, every time I tell this story, I feel like I get a little whiff of the powder that comes out with the airbag. And it felt like time slowed down. It was three or four or five seconds maybe, but it felt like minutes or hours. And I just remember this deep, deep sadness in the pit of my stomach. And I remember thinking, I'm never gonna see the people I love ever again. And...

car rolled and eventually it settled and there was a man behind me who had stopped his car and climbed up onto the side of my car and he helped me unbuckle my seatbelt and he helped me out of the car. I put my feet on the ground, walked to the sidewalk, turned around to see this car that was just totaled and wrecked. And somehow as I patted myself down, I realized that I was completely fine. I didn't have a scratch on me.

And it was in that moment that I felt probably the best that I've ever felt. You know, I was on top of the world because it felt like I just cheated death. And I wish that I could bottle that feeling up and just take a whiff every morning because it's so easy to forget how amazing it is to be alive. but that's what happened on that day. And it changed my outlook forever.

Tim (30:05.463)

I read your blog post describing the whole experience and you said, I felt indestructible. I had never felt so alive. So that had happened at the start of 2016. And it was later that year that you started graduate school for physical therapy at Drexel and taking things a different route. You've said that that was the hardest and darkest time of your life. What did you learn about yourself that year?

Joe Rinaldi (30:32.942)

Wow, I guess I never put two and two together that within that same year I went from such a high, you know, after that car accident feeling so good to such a low right before I left for graduate school. But, you know, I'd been looking forward to going to graduate school for a while. I worked really hard as a student. I worked really hard on the application and interview process. And I was so looking forward to moving down to Philadelphia.

and pursuing my doctorate of physical therapy. It was a couple of weeks before I left for school. We were on a family vacation in Aruba and I noticed that I was losing some of my sight and the way that the condition works is it's just very sporadic and unpredictable. And so I had had a couple good years without anything changing. And so this felt very abrupt. There was nothing I could do about it. And when we got back home,

I went to the doctor, we kind of stopped the deterioration. We slowed the, the, my sight loss from getting worse at that moment. But I had now lost more of my sight and I was just a week or so out from going to school and pursuing this big thing. And I was so terrified of going and not being able to perform the way I wanted to perform. And in my mind, I was terrified of maybe not even being able to finish.

And so there were serious doubts and I had moments where I thought I'm just going to stay home and live with my parents and play it safe and not do this thing that I've wanted to do out of fear. And I'm so grateful for my parents because they weren't going to let me do that. They told me that I couldn't live my life based off of what if, you know, what if this goes wrong? But instead I had to have this attitude of even if, so even if I lose more of my sight,

I will still finish. And that's what I did. And I went to school and I can get more into it if you'd like, but that first year of school is just so hard for so many different reasons.

Tim (32:39.447)

Yeah, I'd be curious to dive deeper into your faith aspect. And you've said, experiencing all that, you said it was, it was as if God had his hand on my shoulder. And he told me that even though I had stopped chasing him, he had never stopped chasing me and getting deeper into when things started to turn around for you. Did it feel like when you were going through all this, did you feel like

you were just stuck in place or taking a step further that it feel like you were actually moving in the opposite direction to God.

Joe Rinaldi (33:15.246)

Hmm. So I grew up going to church and all throughout my childhood and really my life up to that point, I felt a strong connection with God. I felt like I always had a place to go. if I was struggling, I always had someone to talk to and someone that was watching over me. And that first year of grad school, I remember for an entire year, waking up every morning, wanting so badly.

to just feel good, to feel like myself. And no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't. And that was odd for me because anything else in my life to that point, whether it was school or athletics or relationships, I could just try harder and things would get better. But I couldn't change this. And so it felt like God wasn't there, right? It felt like maybe I was standing still and God was pulling away from me. And...

you know, maybe more and more out of reach with every passing week. And it wasn't until I met this girl who was in my class and I started spending time with her that I started feeling more and more like myself and I really liked her. And so one day she invited me to church and, I said yes, because I wanted to spend time with her. And so I went and I remember standing there and I remember this overwhelming feeling as if God had put his hands on my shoulder and just said,

You know, I know you stopped chasing me, but I never stopped chasing you. And looking back, it's just amazing how, you know, God could use circumstances and people to, to show you and remind you that he's always been there with you. and for me, that was my wife. she's my wife now, spoiler alert. And, yeah, that season went from an incredible low to an incredible high,

And I guess that's really just life in general, is these waves, these ups and downs.

Tim (35:13.495)

So what was your experience like in grad school after that moment for the rest of that?

Joe Rinaldi (35:19.598)

After that moment, I loved it. You know, after that moment, I spent a lot more time with that girl. Her name's Michaela. We did a lot of stuff together throughout the week on the weekends and it kept me busy. You know, fitness was a big outlet for me. So I would study, I would go to the gym, I'd spend time with her. You know, did well in school, enjoyed what I was learning. I loved being around the people I was around. And I want to say...

Those were some of the best years that I've had after that moment.

Tim (35:53.591)

How did it feel being the first student ever to give a speech at your Drexel graduation?

Joe Rinaldi (36:00.014)

I swear you must work for the FBI or something because you're good. Yeah, it was a cool experience to be the first person, the first student to be able to give a speech to my graduating class. And I love public speaking. I think that most people hate it because they're so afraid of what other people think of them. And I love it for that same reason, because I know that people really aren't thinking much about me and probably won't even remember much of what I said.

And so it's very freeing to be up in that position for me. And I got to deliver an important message. At least I felt like it was important. And the gist of it was aimed toward my classmates who now we're all healthcare professionals at this point. And it was about just caring for people and that we won't always have the right answers. You know, there will be a lot of times throughout our careers where we won't know something. And it's in those moments that we have to be honest with ourselves and with others.

And we have the opportunity to take ownership and to learn those things that we don't yet know, while at the same time, just being present and empathetic and there for people who are hurting. And I think that goes beyond healthcare for all of us, right? When you're wrong, admit that you're wrong and then make a commitment to learn what you don't know. And at the same time, like walk hand in hand with people that care about you and that you care for.

Tim (37:23.255)

So you graduate from Drexel, you become a physical therapist. How long into becoming a physical therapist did you start to have your doubts about the path you were on?

Joe Rinaldi (37:35.662)

Hmm. So I started practicing in 2019 and for that whole first year, 2019 through 2020, I really enjoyed what I was doing, to be honest. You know, it was the first time I'd really had an adult job and, I loved the people I was working with, both my coworkers and the patients. And I didn't think much of it.

You know, I was happy to do that and do a little bit of social media stuff and coaching here and there on the side. And then the pandemic hit, and I went from this very frantic pace of seeing multiple patients an hour every single day of the week to the clinic being closed. and we reopened and things were slow and it was a weird time. And I think like a lot of other people, I just had space and time to reflect on what I really wanted.

And when I looked back, I realized that how I was living my life over that past year wasn't what I wanted. You know, I wanted to make more of a unique impact on people. I wanted to do things my way. I wanted a sense of ownership and freedom over my time and my schedule and my life. And so I started to have these conversations with people who are in my circle. And you mentioned the Pursuit podcast that I co -hosted with my friend Sam Tooley.

And, you know, at the time he's building gyms, he's, he's growing his business. He's been an entrepreneur for a few years at that point. And I just remember seeing the flexibility that he had with his schedule and his life. And he was meeting people he wanted to meet and he was doing work he wanted to do. And I had conversations with him and with other entrepreneurs, and I just kept hearing the same thing. And it was, you know, this is the hardest thing I've ever done.

And it's also the most rewarding and I wouldn't change it for the world. And so from 2020 through 2021, 2022, I was just building up this internal courage to make some sort of a leap. And I can get into it if you'd like, but I ended up starting my business in the summer of 2021.

Tim (39:44.855)

Yeah, the point that I really want to emphasize, which I love is on how you made that leap. After you graduate, you said, well, I'm proud of all the work that went into becoming a physical therapist. The title doesn't mean too much because it doesn't define me. Regardless of the degree that I earned or the career that I chose, I'm Joe Rinaldi, the person, and I want to leave this world better than I found it in everything that I do, not just work. And that will never change.

You didn't make being a physical therapist or the title part of your identity or who you were as a person. How pivotal was that in having the confidence and the courage in yourself to quit just after two years of getting your doctorate and going all in on your business?

Joe Rinaldi (40:38.382)

It was huge. I know people to this day who not only in the world of healthcare, but just in general, hate what they do and are so terrified to leave because of what people will think or who will I be without this kind of work? And I feel really grateful that I was able to develop that mindset before I had gotten to that point in my life, because I recognize that circumstances are going to change for all of us, right? You're going to have...

I'm talking to the average person here. You're going to have many different jobs. You're going to have many different friends. You're going to gain and lose these different things throughout your life. But what are the constants? What can you control? And what you can control truly is who you are on the inside. And you can carry those characteristics with you wherever you go. And I'm going to make a bold statement, but I think that you can find a really fulfilling career.

doing almost anything if you choose the right perspective. You know, you could be a barista and you can make people smile and you can enjoy that work if you choose to see it that way. And if you choose to carry yourself in a way that you're proud of, I think it's so much more about who you are, not so much about what you do. And so to go back to your question, that mindset, that perspective was an enormous part of what allowed me to make that jump.

Tim (42:01.687)

So you go all in on yourself in June, 2021 and you start Project Indoor. And I think from hearing you talk and seeing all your work endure, that word is something that you truly resonate with and embody in all that you do. And I know that a big part of your podcast and conversing with people is asking them what their definition of indoor is, but I'm...

Very interested actually in the word project. And that's something that I would love to hear you talk more about. What is your definition of project?

Joe Rinaldi (42:38.926)

Ooh, man. Again, great question. Yeah. So I'm going to tell you a funny story. When I started Project Inder in 2021, I was looking to file for an LLC and my first choice of an LLC was just Inder. And so I went to file that and I get to the government website and I realized it's been taken in the state of Pennsylvania. I need to talk to those people. I actually would love to connect with that business, but...

so I had to rethink things and I thought, okay, endure means a lot to me, maybe for obvious reasons. it's a word a lot of people can get behind. Project to me is something that you work on. it's, it's not something that just happens. It's not something that's given to you. It's something that requires work and it's usually ongoing work and projects tend to happen with other people. And so it's this thing that I want to build.

with other people. And I think in the beginning of my transformation, if you will, when I was back at college, I was very much just a lone wolf. I felt like I was the guy with his hood up doing his own thing in a corner. And I loved that. And I still love that. But I realized that in order to do things that are very meaningful, that are sustainable, that last a long time and impact a lot of people, you need other good people to be working on it with you.

So to me, project symbolizes that it represents this thing that we are always working on. And it has a goal and has a mission and we're doing it together with other people.

Tim (44:18.871)

Yeah, to add on to that, I think a big defining point of a project is, is not needing to have everything figured out all at once and just taking a very strong first step because a project is constantly evolving and constantly being built. It's never fully built. And I think in the pursuit of anything truly worth having in life, whether it's anything, especially, especially

innovative, creative, or some type of personal development pursuit. One of the main things that I think you need to buy into and being comfortable with is that feeling of the unknown and not knowing if there's going to be any type of substantive results ever created. And something that you've said in a podcast is that you said, I have no idea what I'm doing.

I have no clue what I'm doing. Everything I've done is unexplored territory. I've never been a founder and CEO of a business before. Every single day is unexpected, unexplored territory. I don't know what the future looks like, but there's a feeling that I'm chasing. What do you think the feeling is that you're chasing with Project Indoor?

Joe Rinaldi (45:39.438)

So one, I stand by all of that. I don't remember when I said it, but I agree with past me. And I, you know, good just to, for people listening, right? You don't have to have started a business to relate to that because no matter how old you are right now at this moment in time, you've never been this old in this place at this time, right? Every single day, every single minute is a new experience. I don't know what's going to come out of your mouth next. I'm sure it's going to be another great question, but.

Right. It's all unexplored. It's all unexpected. So with that in mind, I mean, yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. I am chasing a feeling rather than a vision. And I will liken this to how, police dogs sniff out for certain things, because I was watching this show a couple of months ago and it just struck me that what I'm doing is a lot like what a police dog does. Right. if you take an aerial view,

and they let the dog out of the car and let's say they're looking for drugs. What they'll do is they'll start sweeping really wide. They'll go back and forth, left to right. And as they move forward, that sweep gets more focused. So it gets more narrow and more narrow and more narrow until they hone in on exactly what they're going for. And in that scenario, the dog is searching for a smell. For me, it's a feeling.

And so I feel like ever since I started this, it's been a wide sweep left and right, left and right. And I'm getting more and more narrow. And the feeling is, it's hard to describe, but I'll give you a moment in time where I felt it. we've held an annual event each of the three years we've been in business. The first year we had about 40, 45 people show up. the second year we had about 120 people show up. And this year we had a little over 250 people show up.

And as I stood in front of those 250 people this year, talking about the story, the brand, the mission, I felt it right. And it didn't last long, but I felt it. And it was me being in a room with all of these other people who wanted a better life for themselves. And they wanted to support other people in doing the same, you know, all of these people wanted to do hard things in pursuit of their full potential. And we were all there together.

Joe Rinaldi (47:59.758)

because of this idea that was just in my head a few years earlier. And so in that moment, I felt so loved, so supported, so energized. And so I was looking forward to all of the impact that would come from that day and just standing there in that room, like that was the energy, that was the feeling. And, you know, when the day passes, you know, that energy, you could remember it, you could feel it every now and then, but it's kind of behind you and you have to go search for it again and create it, cultivate it.

So that was the feeling and that's a great question, Tim.

Tim (48:34.903)

A couple years ago, you were offered a dream job by a person you said you looked up to for a long time, but you turned it down so that you could build Project Indoor and you clearly have a very strong internal voice. Where do you think that comes from?

Joe Rinaldi (48:55.95)

I want to say it comes from my dad. You know, one story that I'll always remember and I probably should tell more because it's been so impactful in my life is just is with my dad and it's where I learned the lesson that you don't give up on things. And so I was in middle school and I was taking an honors math class and it was the first time in my life where I got anything less than an A on anything.

I'm a people pleaser. You know, I was, I was the teacher's pet. I did great in school and I think I got a C or D on this quiz. And I came home crying and I told my mom, I want to just do regular math because this was too hard. And she said, okay, well, we'll talk to your dad when he gets home. And I remember going up to my room and then later in the evening, my dad gets home. He had probably just commuted two hours back from New York city after a stressful day. He's exhausted. He hasn't even eaten dinner yet.

And I hear him and my mom talking in the kitchen. And then I hear the footsteps coming upstairs and he opens the door to my room and he says, you are not dropping down to regular math. He goes, we're going to figure this out. And so he sits down on my bedroom floor with me. We open up this book and he reteaches himself geometry along with me. And that was, that was the encouragement I needed. Right. And I'll never forget that, that you don't give up when things are hard. and.

For me, I think that helped develop this internal voice where, you know, I can't let my dad down. You know, I can't give up on things that are easy and I can't let myself down. And someday in the future, I have to walk this walk because I hope to have a son or daughter someday who needs that lesson as well. And so I feel like I owe it to the people who have helped me get here and all of the people down the road who all have the opportunity to impact to hold that standard and listen to that voice.

Tim (50:55.159)

Do you remember what you had told that company why you were turning them down?

Joe Rinaldi (51:01.326)

That's a good question. I do remember vaguely the gist of it. And so the company is based in Texas. And like you said, it was a dream job with a person I really admired and still admire. And the hardest part about that whole experience of deciding whether or not to take the job.

It was really twofold. One, it was, I wanted to continue to build Project Endure and do this thing that I'd set out to do. And two, it would have meant moving from the Northeast where I've spent my entire life down to Texas. And deep down in my heart, I just knew that my ultimate goal is to have a healthy, happy family. And being in Texas is not where that family would thrive. I want to be around family. I want to be here close to the people I love. And so that was the main reason. But...

know, be right behind that was, you know, I'm going to bet on myself and I'm going to keep betting on myself. So yeah, those are the reasons.

Tim (52:03.927)

You've said that entrepreneurship is personal growth at a high level and personal development in disguise. And going back to what we were talking about earlier, how you never identified as a physical therapist. Is it more challenging for you now to separate your sense of self from everything that you're doing with projects indoor?

Joe Rinaldi (52:30.446)

Hmm.

I would say yes. You know, I think putting myself out there on social media, I've created, I don't want to say I've created this persona, but I've just shown people more and more of who I am. And in a lot of ways, just through the way I've built this business, it's very much tied to Project Endure. And so this Joe Rinaldi character who shows up on social media is very much tied to Project Endure.

And in real life, I am that character. So I am very much tied to project endure. if you ask my wife, she would say I work a hundred hours a week on this stuff. I would say I probably only work 70 or 80, still a lot. So the point is I do spend a lot of my time and energy and effort on building this thing. I care so much about. It is harder to separate myself from this than it is from being a physical therapist.

however, at my core, I think I've always been an entrepreneur. and I think an entrepreneur, at least to me is someone who creates opportunities and capitalizes on opportunities to get the things they want and create the things that they care about. I can think back to middle school. I actually got in trouble. I was in the principal's office because me and my friend actually funny enough, the same kid who actually hit the car with the rock won't mention his name.

We were business partners and we would go to the local grocery store and buy a 12 pack of gum, right? For a dollar 50 cents. And then we would sell each individual stick of gum for 50 cents. We made a killing. But you can't chew gum in middle school. So it was, we got, we got that shut down, but I've always had that spirit in me.

Tim (54:17.207)

I listened to the podcast episode that you did with your wife, Michaela, about a year and a half ago. And you talked about how you struggle balancing having the mindset of delayed gratification with also appreciating that we only have the present moment. And that's something that I definitely also struggle with. I know you also have the book on your desk, the ruthless elimination of hurry. How do you think?

There we go. How do you think you've made sure you're not hurrying through life? Or do you think that's something that you still really struggle with?

Joe Rinaldi (55:00.43)

I've gotten better, but I'll be honest, I still struggle with that. I think part of me feels like there's just endless amounts of time, right? There are days I wake up where I just completely take for granted everything in my life. And I just assume that everything will be just as it is when I'm ready for it. And then there are days where something happens. I have a conversation, I see something, and it reminds me of just how mortal we all are.

and how time is fleeting and this life is not guaranteed. And it's those reminders that help pull me back to the present moment. I will say that my wife, Michaela, is one of the things that pulls me back to the present moment the most because she is so good at it. And I feel compelled to spend time with her, not because I should or I have to, but because I want to.

And so, you know, at the end of a work day, I'm excited to walk down the stairs from my office and see her and our dog. That helps pull me back, but it's still hard for me. I'll be honest.

Tim (56:08.631)

How does she play into the vision with projects in door? Because I mean, I don't have a spouse, but I would have to believe that having a very dedicated spouse to somebody who has such big goals with you entrepreneurial goals that would need to be very important.

Joe Rinaldi (56:23.95)

She is so supportive and I won I wouldn't be the person I am today without her, you know through She's she's one of the most

gentle, supportive, encouraging, faithful people I've ever met. And in a lot of ways, I don't know if my faith would be where it is without her, and I just would not be who I am without her. So in that way, she is Project Endure in a lot of ways. But she is also so up for anything. She trusts me so much, which is amazing and scary at the same time.

If I said, Hey, let's sell everything we have and let's go do this crazy thing. She might put up a bit of resistance, but then she'd probably say, okay, I trust you. And that's terrifying. But it's also amazing because it allows me the freedom to be creative and to try new things and to build this thing I care so much about. And I'll give her a ton of credit. You know, when we met, she would not for anything, get up at 6 a and run multiple miles. And.

You know, she's doing that tomorrow with me. And so she's grown a lot, I've grown a lot, and we do it all together.

Tim (57:41.207)

You turned 30 recently and you put out 30 lessons that you've learned. Number five from that list is what you got you here won't always get you there. Our strategies need to change with each new season. What's a new thing or something different that you think you have to do to continue to grow Project In -

Joe Rinaldi (58:02.934)

It's counterintuitive and I wouldn't have believed it two or three years ago. I think I need to be more narrow with the focus. You know, like I love doing a lot of different things. I love branching out, meeting new people, having new experiences within this business. It's part of what has helped us get to this point.

At the same time, there's only so much energy that can be poured into this from me and from each individual who's a part of it. And I think narrowing the focus and allowing more energy to funnel into that narrow focus is going to help propel us forward to the next level. So I actually think we need to do less as opposed to do more.

Tim (58:49.271)

Yeah, I know you do a lot of coaching, a lot of brand stuff, a lot of event stuff. Where do you see the narrowness coming in?

Joe Rinaldi (58:57.358)

Hmm. I love. So this is where the, I'm not sure it comes back into play, right? I'm still figuring it all out. And that's the truth. That's the first answer that comes to my mind. Beyond that, I really love in -person experiences. you know, the coaching I do is amazing. I love being able to reach and interact with and grow with people all over the world. At the same time, there's something special that can't always be replicated.

online, with in -person. And so I love the events that we throw. I love the workouts that we put on. I would love to do more of that. And this is something that's still developing in my mind, but I would love a space someday where, you know, it's, it's home. That's where Project Inder gathers. It's maybe a gym space. It's maybe an event space, maybe both. And I think our focus is figuring out how to get closer to that place. And it'll be interesting to listen back to this in a year because,

I could be way off and in six months, eight months, 10 months, 12 months, I might think something completely different, but the core of who we are will travel with us no matter where we go. And that's what I think is important.

Tim (01:00:10.455)

that goes back to the emphasis and the understanding of the word project how it's constantly evolving and like you said you don't know you've said that one of the hardest things for you is separating from the pack while also bringing along people who want to be separated from the pack and I would say that that first part of the sentence it's

pretty easy to do that for a person on an individual level. I feel like I've done that for myself as well. It's easy to isolate yourself, whether it's in the gym and focusing just on you as a person with personal development. It becomes much more difficult when you're trying to do that on a grander scale with other people and trying to build something. Do you still struggle with that? And why do you think that's been so hard?

Joe Rinaldi (01:01:02.51)

Hmm. I almost get this image in my head when you say it. I know that I said it, but when you say what I said, I get this image in my head of, you know, a parent walking in a very specific direction through a very crowded place, looking back, reaching back, trying to bring their child or their children along to get away from the pack. And that's chaotic. It's confusing. It means you need to turn around from time to time. It means you need to reach back every now and then. And it slows you down.

in some ways. And that's what's hard about it, right? Like you said, separating from the pack, if you actually want to, it's not that hard. If you're going by yourself, you can go fast. But in order to separate from the pack and bring people along with you, you one need to find who those people are. And then you need to vary your pace and maybe slow down sometimes and encourage other people along, reach your hand back and pick somebody up. And it requires extra energy and effort.

So it's hard in that way, but at the same time, it's so rewarding. And what I've realized more than anything is that people are attracted to individuals, brands, companies, et cetera, who know where they want to go. And when you do that, people will naturally follow.

Tim (01:02:17.591)

Taking things all the way back to 2017, one of your very first Instagram posts, we dance until it rains. You describe a story that there's an Indian tribe who is known throughout the land for having the greatest rain dance of all time. Every single time that this tribe did their rain dance, it rained. When asked what their secret was, the chief simply stated, we dance until it rains.

So for your vision and thinking long -term, not even talking about stuff that you may be doing in the near future. And you're obviously a person who's going to be working day in and day out for the rest of your life and trying to build something every single day. What do you think the rain looks like for you? Wait up.

Joe Rinaldi (01:03:13.294)

And again, great question. I have not thought about that story in a long time. Hmm.

Yeah, I think the funny part is I think when it rains, whatever that looks like, I'll probably keep dancing even after it rains. That's just who I am. Ultimately, I think having a group of people around me who I care deeply about and have the freedom to spend time with and invest into, I think that's the rain. And what that looks like is family, it's friends, it's people I'm working with or acquaintances with.

It's being able to have the freedom and flexibility to be able to go to one of my child's sporting events or, you know, support this person that I care about by attending their event or taking this person out to a lunch whenever I want, because I can. And it's being able to have the complete freedom to do those things and to pour into other people who I truly, truly care about. And as I say that right now, right, I, I.

I have that, right? I can do that. I think actually we can all do that in our own unique ways. And the rain maybe is just more freedom to be able to do that when I want how.

Tim (01:04:29.207)

Joe, where can everyone go to support you and Project Indoor?

Joe Rinaldi (01:04:34.03)

If you go to Instagram and you find me, you can find everything about me, including project in DER. So my handle is at Joe a Rinaldi on Instagram. And I would love to connect with anyone who wants.

Tim (01:04:48.855)

I appreciate you for coming on the Outworker.

Joe Rinaldi (01:04:51.95)

I appreciate you for having me, Tim. Keep up the great work.

Tim (01:04:55.351)

Appreciate it.