#124 - Ben Brummell - The Feeling You're Ignoring Is Trying To Change Your Life

Some of the biggest changes in life don't begin with a plan. They begin with a feeling you can't explain. Ben Brummell shares how chasing a lifelong dream to Argentina ultimately led him somewhere he never expected. What followed wasn't the life he intended. It was the life he was meant to build. This conversation explores what happens when you stop living from obligation and start paying attention to the quiet feeling that keeps pulling you somewhere else.

Timestamps:
00:00 A Renaissance Man 
06:34 Learning How To Listen To Yourself
11:40 Being A Life Architect 
20:02 The Difference Between Want & Desire
21:53 The Power Of Words
29:38 Not Fitting In With Your Age Group
38:32 Speaking What You Feel, But Not Actually Feeling It
41:17 Taking A Big Leap
46:10 A Big Leap Starts With A Big Break
53:39 Curiosity vs. Ambition
55:47 Feeling The Energy From Aligned Work
1:01:08 Connect With Ben Brummell

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Transcript

Some of the biggest changes in life don't begin with a plan. They begin with a feeling you can't explain. Ben Brummell shares how chasing a lifelong dream to Argentina ultimately led him somewhere he never expected. What followed wasn't the life he intended. It was the life he was meant to build. This conversation explores what happens when you stop living from obligation and start paying attention to the quiet feeling that keeps pulling you somewhere else.

Tim Doyle (00:00.088)

What is a renaissance, man? Mm.

Tim Doyle (00:09.432)

A Renaissance man to me is someone that has the capability of

Multiple passions, multiple interests and being able to cultivate expertise, cultivate skill, cultivate the ability to be a beginner in multiple areas and excel and go deep in not just one but several parts of their life. Something that I've come to appreciate when having a lot of conversations with people is the intentionality of language, whether it's through their work or different crafts or just guiding words within their life.

How have you gotten exposed to this word Renaissance? And why do you feel like it's been such a guiding force for you? Sure. The long story of how Renaissance came into my life is maybe for another time, but the way it came into my world was through a lot of synchronicities, divinity, it being shown to me through conversation, through people's shirts, through seeing different signs. And for me,

talked to me five years ago, I don't think I would have picked up on those. But this happened about two years ago after I had moved to Austin and I started

I actually got asked a question while I was in Argentina, and that's a whole side quest that we can get to into if needed. But I was in Argentina and I went out to Argentina actually to go play pro soccer out there. And for the reasons I went out there, none of it was working. And I remember I was in my apartment sitting in Argentina and nothing was working. I didn't really know anyone. I was tired. I was exhausted. I was lonely.

Tim Doyle (01:58.156)

And I was like, I don't know what to do because no the teams weren't working out. And I was like, all right, what can I do? I said, I can meditate. And that's also why I meditated for two minutes right before this. But I started meditating. And in that meditation came an idea. Hey, go check out this coaching recording you did with one of your coaches a few months ago. And I was like, that's weird, but I'll trust that. And I went into it and

One of the first questions he asked me, my coach, was, Who do you feel represents the energy of your life right now? And at the time I had said somet somebody very different. And in the moment I said, and it randomly came up, was Renaissance Man. And I was like, that's I and at first I was like, I have no idea what that is. But it felt so true and it felt so powerful. And

That led me down a rabbit hole of learning about it, of learning where it originated in Florence and really stepping into this idea of renaissance means rebirth. It means stepping into a revitalization of who you are, of doing things, frankly, based on your deep, for me, deep desires, not just what I thought I should do, not just what I felt I should do. and so rebirthing who I was at that moment.

Why did it feel like you were called for rebirthing? It's a great question.

Tim Doyle (03:32.736)

I think it was almost a by necessity at the at the current moment because

The things in Argentina were not working out. And I had basically told all my friends, all my family, like I had parted ways with my work and I said, Hey, this is something I deeply, deeply desire to do, which is to go back and fulfill a dream of mine, which was to play soccer for various reasons. And I got my butt absolutely kicked out there. And I don't know for those who have been Argentina or not, but they love their soccer.

And so I experienced both the culture, but I also experienced a lot of resistance and and pushback on it. and I also don't think it was my path as well, is part of how I saw it. And so it was almost a by necessity rebirth of it, wasn't like I had a job to go back to. It wasn't like I had a I was on a sabbatical or anything. It was like this was my life. And and so I had one of those moments where I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do.

And I think that was an invitation of okay, I'm gonna just start listening and be really attuned and do what I know best, stick to the basics, which for me was working out, meditation, getting activity. But this renaissance started coming a around and I just started listening to it. and it also for me, there's a feeling that I think we get towards certain things. We feel poles towards certain things, more so than others. And this one had for me something that excited me a little bit. It it

It was a bit nerve wracking, but it was like there's something here. And so I follow those threads when I can. What was exciting to you? Like following that thread of renaissance? Yes. Following this excitement of basically researching about this group of men, think about Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, these this group of men that came together, maybe not all saying hey and got on the phone and said, Hey, let's go do this, but it was in a period of time where there were a lot of wars going on and a lot of them fled to Florence.

Tim Doyle (05:37.326)

And they went on this theme of starting to just be creative, starting to do all the things that they most felt were core to who they are. It was the arts, the humanities, science, poetry, some of the greatest works of art we've ever seen. I think of the David sculpture. I was able to go to Florence after Argentina based on listening to, hey, this is something that I want to go explore. But that listening to me was there's something that my heart

String is pulling is how I usually feel it. And I think that can be different for many people, but it's when you're attuned to your heart, is this

It's almost like does my heart get bigger for this, or does it get smaller? Does it stay the same? So listening to that internal voice, do you feel like that's something that you've always carried with you throughout your entire life, or did that really just become accentuated when you went through that rebirthing process? I would love to say it's been my entire life, but it it hasn't. And I think there's been moments of it and there's been also deep moments where I've been so disconnected from myself where I realize I ha when was the last time I have listened to myself?

Tim Doyle (06:48.92)

Yeah, so to your question, I have definitely followed a North Star of there is something more that is calling me than at certain moments in my life, the circumstances that were surrounding me. I mean, for example, I remember being in in college and I joined Greek life, like fraternity sorority, and I remember just being so disconnected from myself. and that was probably f a few years of just not

Listening to what it is that really was calling me. And that was main part because what was overshadowing it was a deep desire to belong, a deep desire to connect and be perceived a certain way. and so when those things take priority, when the priority is I care more about what people think than I do about listening to myself, even though we do care about our listening to ourselves, we start living a life based on those priorities. And until I started like rearranging those priorities and had kind of a wake-up call.

Did I start getting back on that track of what does it look like for me to live a life based on my truth and and what feels true, yeah, to me? Was travel really the tool to be able to do that or what was the launching pad you feel like? To do like to be able to reconnect with yourself or I guess get out of that state, like you were saying, of being disconnected in college? Yeah, I think 'cause it's also easier said than done. Sure. So I guess to break it down even a little bit more.

Did you always have like a conscious awareness since like the start of college of feeling disconnected from yourself? Or is it sort of like a process of making the unconscious conscious and almost like an epiphany of like, what am I doing here? Yeah, I think that's a it's well said. I I think a lot of it was making the unconscious conscious. For the amount of inner work that I had done, it wasn't until I started feeling

Like what am I doing? Like it was just star like some of these inner questions were starting to be louder than my call it strength of pushing them down. And

Tim Doyle (09:03.958)

And so for me that process really looked like having in a lot of senses an epiphany. Like I could share the the moment that I knew exactly when I was like, my life is gonna change from this moment on. But I can also reflect back to you all the months leading up to that, which had me going, waking up super early in the morning being because I was like, I don't know what it's happening right now, but I gotta figure this out. And I would wake up super early in the morning, I'd go to a coffee shop, I'd be the first person at this coffee shop. And these people and I didn't drink coffee, like I don't drink coffee.

But I was like, I would get like a tea or something, and these people didn't know what the heck was going on. But I would go to the basement. There was a two-story coffee shop and I'd go to the basement and for like two, three hours, I'd start like researching, exploring, as you referred to, like traveling experiences, what that would look like for me to go elsewhere. But really what it was is also the start of when I started to journal. And it wasn't like these long paragraphs of pages. It was like one or two lines of like, I remember my first journal entry was basically.

I something along the lines of I've said a lot of what I want to do and who I want to be, but I'm not doing any of it. And I like for the first time, I maybe said it in my head, but like I wrote it on paper and it became real in that moment. And for the next few weeks, few months, I would go to this coffee shop every single morning and I would start asking these questions and I started changing my circles a little bit. And so

I share that as yes, there was a moment where I was like, now I'm making the switch, because I think we talk about a lot of things that we want to do. I I'm sure as one of those where I was like, yeah, this is really what I would love to do. This is what I would love to commit to, and I don't do it. and then there's a moment that you do, but there's it's all the ability and willingness to show up for that thing, even when it's not very clear, even when it's muted in a lot of ways, all the things that are wrapped up in that. But showing up.

Allows for that moment potentially to come. And I mean, a lot of the work I do is helping people shrink that amount of time. But

Tim Doyle (11:10.862)

Yeah, think both sides of it, d all the work, all the questions that you're asking yourself, like that is part of your process. That is part of the moment that will allow for the opening, for the expansion, for the jump, for the big leap that one desires to take. and until you get to that moment, it's what a ride it is. Yeah. To continue to tug at this thread about the intentionality of language. Another term that I've seen you use a lot is

Life architect. It seems like a lot of what you've just been describing goes into that. What was the process like of that term coming into your awareness as well? And what does that mean to you to be a life architect? Yeah. Have you ever heard of life architects before? I have not. Yeah. It it for me was in part coaching, like the coaching industry.

Never fully resonated with me of like the wording around it. It it is understood by people, but also we have a lot of our own past experiences. People have their own experiences with past coaches or what they perceive coaching to be. And to me, I really just wanted to get to the core of what I was doing. And if you look at me from when I was super young, I loved Bob the Builder. I loved, I loved Legos, I loved architecting different things. I always thought I was literally going to be an architect. And

What I have come to be and who I have come to like come into is a person who architects spaces for people, proverbial, but also just like energetic spaces, and architecting those spaces for humans to be able to have a conversation about the things that are happening in their life or what they want to create in their life. And so it's for me, I love also on this idea of words, creating is what I love to talk about. It's like I am always creating. And in this

Creation, it's a dance, it's a play, it's a back and forth. And I and so for me, when I talk about what I do, it's a dance, it's a play, it's fun, it's also serious. Like I don't take myself seriously, but I take my life seriously. and life architect is one of those things where it's like, all right, we're gonna architect your life today. And that is some like one of the greatest gifts I am able to give to other people. and it's a big part of who like what I try to do for myself.

Tim Doyle (13:29.624)

But it was also differentiating myself of like this is different. And people are like, What is that? Like, I don't even know what that is. And it's it really starts a conversation. and that's what I desire is to spark conversation and curiosity. I always like understanding terms by understanding the opposite. I always think it's fascinating to hear people's mirrored perspective on things. So, like, let's say you're a life architect right now. If you were going back to that disconnected phase.

of college when maybe you said you wouldn't feel like you were architecting your life because a lot of people might be listening and be like, you know, it doesn't feel like I'm doing that right now. And I think it can be helpful to have language as well to understand the opposite. So I mean, what do you think is the difference or the opposite of being an architect for your life? Yeah, the difference or opposite of being an architect, not an architect.

I can if you don't have it, I'll let you answer, but I have my own sort of like theory or philosophy on it. Sure. So I don't see it as like an opposite word of architect. But when I think about this, if we were just going down this, you know, stream or this, you know, language stream of architect, you know, what does an architect use? So like an ar an architect obviously has their tools and within life

There's some tools that you can change, and there's some tools that you can't change. And then what does an architect use with their tools? Well, like an architect has material, and I'm of the belief that material can always be changed. And within my life, and I feel like a lot of people's lives, you can get into the narrative of seeing both as the tools, those are innate to me, and the material is also innate to me. And this is kind of just like what I have at my disposal.

And it's like, no, that's just a story that you're telling yourself. There's material within your world that you can choose. So I mean, what are your thoughts on that framework? And how do you see as I guess helping people to see there's certain things that you can control but can't control, but like the material within their life is something that can be changed. That's beautiful. I mean, I love that theory. And I so deeply believe in the idea that all the things we think are concrete or stuck are entirely movable.

Tim Doyle (15:46.946)

And that's just a belief I hold. And so with that belief, I know I can create an like I can figure out anything. Like anything can happen. And man man have I figured out like when you're traveling or even in our own lives, like on our day to day, there's different things that you figure out. I remember I when I was in Argentina, I like wanted to go to one of the local games and I wanted to experience it. I wanted to just taste and feel it. And and so I arrived at the stadium in like the middle of this this neighborhood and

I was maybe five minutes late, like past the start of the game. And it was completely sold out. Gates were locked. Nobody was getting let in. And there was just a security guard there. And I was like, come on, man. Like, and I started sharing and I just started talking with him. And I just started sharing my story. And he's like, No. And there's more people are coming up. They're like, my God, like it's sold out. And they're turning them turning them away. And I'm just like, Whatever's concrete is totally movable. I know there's and it's like, no, there's no more.

Seats left available. There's no more tickets. He kept going. And it then he started to go back to the ticket person. This is security guard. And then I just kept staying with him. And after probably my tenth ask, all of a sudden he just like slides me this wristband. And he's like, There's a family section around the corner. Just go by, just go, go around the corner, and they'll let you in. And I was like, in that moment,

It was another reaffirmation based on all the past experiences where it's like whenever I'm in a situation and it looks like this is inevitable or this is how it's gonna be and I don't like it, or it's not as it like there is a way for me to create. There's a way for me to architect my life and to do it through really the third way. Or or another beautiful example is I remember saying I wanted to go

into finance, like have a finance job or wanted to travel the world. And I remember my mo my mom asking me, she's like, Why can't you just do both? And I was like, What are talking about? And she's like, Yeah, go do both. I was like, And in that moment it's like, okay, what we think is one or the other is often we can create a middle way. And I think that's the most exciting thing. And I ended up

Tim Doyle (18:00.226)

Fast forward, I ended up going and living in Kenya for a few months and working at a microfinance company. And like that was just its own experience. But like that started to teach me that wow, whenever I think it's one or the other, there's there's usually a way to architect both. Do you feel like you still actively need to unlearn or catch yourself of going down those either or paths, or how have you gotten around? All the time. Yeah. All the time. Do you find that for yourself as well?

I mean, I feel like it's natural to feel like

Tim Doyle (18:34.904)

We like to make things hard on ourselves. Yeah. And it's easy to feel like twist the ropes within our head when we feel like everything can't work within our way. I I mean I do think there's some truth to it, but I feel like there's a lot of making things black or white. Yeah, agreed. And back to tie in the power of words, which I really appreciate because for me I always feel like words have energy.

I I always get to the etymology of words of like what does this mean? And I remember even looking at the difference between want and desire. And so like I'll get to the main point of this, but it's the idea of what we speak, we create. And that's why I am so when I work with people, it's like it is so important the words we speak into this world because we create ourselves one way or the other, the black or the white, but like we get to choose is the beautiful part. We have the freedom to choose which way we want to go. And so one, I love

The intention you have and the understanding around words. But to share this want versus desire piece, which I found absolutely fascinating, was when you look at the etymology of want, usually when I say I want something, I'm like, yeah, that's a beautiful thing to say. I want to create this, I want this or that. And I remember my coach asking me, he's like, Do you know where want comes from? And was like, No. And because he kept saying desire, I was like, why? Like, what's the difference?

And he said, want literally by definition means to lack, to lack something. And sure, right to lack, we don't have it and we want it, but it's to lack something also has a latent energy of like scarcity or like not having. And desire, by definition, was I forgot the root of it, but it basically meant of the stars. And it was like our desire is of the stars.

And it's like when we speak our desire or like I desire this, like we are now taking all the energy of words with us as we speak them into the world and we are creating our reality in that moment. And so now I am very intentional with saying, This is what I desire, this is what I would love. and so it's a big part for me, words. And so then I actually bring it back to you of how has how have words played a piece in your life, but in specific right now.

Tim Doyle (20:59.36)

Is that an intentionality you have? A hundred percent. I mean, I feel like I really got introduced to it when I was in college because I was an English major. So just understanding the power of words, especially within poetry. And I'm always just like in awe of like understanding how you can just putting words together. Just like understanding like and like you can put different formulas and formations of words that have like never been created before and create some type of spark.

Within either yourself or other people. I would say the biggest thing has been with the podcasts where if people do or don't know, the name of the show is Sulture, but that wasn't the original name of the show. Original name of the show was Outworker because when I created the show and when I had the idea for it, this word outwork really spoke to me and my philosophy on life. And I felt like

Like, okay, this is a perfect word to have grounded in this project. And I appreciate that because it gave me sort of the the push to feel like, okay, like I have the name for this podcast, for this show, to be able to take it out of my body and bring it into the real world. But as I was having conversations with people, it just felt like this doesn't align. Like this is too surface level.

Grind, hustle culture, sort of just living within your head. and there's a certain depth to these conversations that this word doesn't get to. And I was like, so I went back to the drawing board, kind of similar to what you were saying, where I was like, Okay, what is the word or the words that feel like represent this show and how I feel about this? And similar to what you were saying about Renaissance, the word soul just like kept coming back to me.

It's not like I, you know, yes, it was like part brainstorm, but I feel like it it got called to me. It was like, man, like that I just keep coming back to that word soul. And I felt like, okay, soul is great, but I can't make it my own in a way. So what's the other word or whatever? And then it was kind of just like a light bulb moment of like, okay, what podcasting is about and what I feel like being built within this sort of

Tim Doyle (23:23.308)

art form or this medium is culture. It was like soul and culture. And then I was like, boom, Sulture. And which I find like so remarkable that I was like, man, kind of feels like I combined two words that in its own could be its own word of like, and I've uncome to understood Sulture as like, you know, living within Sulture, almost like a state of being. And I mean, the way that the show is expanded because of that.

Shift has just been remarkable. And that's why you were saying going back to the power of words. I mean, it's really special. It's amazing. I mean, like this it gets me excited to see this, right? Because you're already I was gonna ask, like, have you seen a different trajectory once you changed it and you just spoke that? Since day one. Right. And it's not because Outworker was necessarily bad, it just it shifted in alignment because you were creating a different type of energy. And in that energy you created a new state of being, as you said. Your state of being, to me, that's the core of every architecture.

Of everyone's life, right? It's like who are we being? Also known as our identity, right? And your identity when it comes to the podcast is this solture, right? And that identity got basically an upgrade in so many ways. And this is where I also, I'm not a big affirmation guy. I don't, I don't really I don't do affirmations because I feel affirmations is almost like whacking you with a stick of like need you need to believe this or this to be true about you. It's too confined. Right. And they're also, it's like there's no

it it's really hard for someone when they're doing that to see the truth in that. It's like they're forcing themselves to do that. What I love to get people into is declarations, a declaration of who I am, a declaration of what this podcast is. And declaration finds the truth, finds there is truth that this is sold. It finds the truth that I am the greatest coach in the world. Finds the truth that this is who I am, finds the truth in whomever you desire to be, and you start feeding that. And when it comes to words,

Our greatest creation source is right here, our mouth. Our our creation box is right here. And this thing can create you any way you want, can create others anywhere any way you want, can create your reality in any way you want. I was just working on the farm in Maui of my life coach. It's this house overlooking the ocean and it's beautiful. And it's like, did you know, Ben? What he asked me, he's like, Did you know this thing?

Tim Doyle (25:52.12)

Didn't just happen where it was given to me. You know where it started? He's like, I just started speaking it. I just started speaking it into the world and all of a sudden it's created. And he's like, You are living an experience of creation that happened from this, from my mouth, that started with my mouth and started with that creation. And so he created this beautiful house on a hill in Hawaii. You know what we can also do is we can also create the opposite. We can also create that I'm not good at this. We can also create that. And I know.

There's a lot of us who feel there's some truth in that. I'm not here to say there's not truth in that, but I'm here to say we have a choice. And at the base, I believe we all have freedom. It's the only thing we really have is freedom. The freedom to be, the freedom to choose. And it's like when you woke up this morning, did you have breakfast? I did. And what'd you eat? I had rice, krispies, and yogurt. Great. Could you have chosen to eat something else? Great. So you had some freedom to choose. And I know it's a small example, but like there was freedom in that.

And I think often we get in this stuckness of like, I don't have the freedom. But I really want to emphasize that it's like we have the freedom to be and to choose. And with that freedom, we get to create that which we would love. And that's where back to this idea of like cr making the unconscious conscious, like this is where you really start stepping into a world of conscious living. And so for me, this idea of what we speak in the world will create is also why like.

I have stopped gossiping. Like I've stopped gossiping because I know when I speak about others, I create them. I create who they are. I create when I speak about Tim, I'm like, this man's one of the greatest podcasters in the world. And it's like, I am creating you in this moment. I'm creating how I experience you. I'm creating how people will listen to this and I mean it. And it's like, and then that will funnel ripple everywhere else. And it's like, I will find the pieces that I enjoy about that person because that will create more love, more light into the world. And so like

I won't gossip. I also won't do it self-gossip, right? Self-gossip is just speaking about ourselves in a certain way. And so I am very intentional back to this idea of of words and creation of what comes out of my mouth. And I mess up all the time. And I'm like, that's maybe I I wonder if I have an example, but like there is moments where I was like, yeah, I can see how I'm creating myself to be that I can't do this or that I'm not capable of this, or that I'm not good enough for this. And I'm also

Tim Doyle (28:13.41)

A human being that is a champion for everyone, that will deliver our die trying, that is always held loved and enough, right? Like those are pieces that I declare that is true about me and they guide me into my day. Cause we forget. We forget who we are. We call ourselves losers sometimes. We call ourselves not loved. And it's like, man, getting pu getting us back into that freedom of what we would love to create is so powerful. I think I've got an example for you about yourself. Yeah. Something that

you've shared is that you feel like you don't fit in with your age group and you were at a retreat last year and you shared on that. Yeah. and you know, using going back to language, you know, framing it in terms of like either being alone or loneliness. And you shared that after that experience and later on that day at dinner, somebody at the retreat came up to you and was like, yeah, like real respect for

Sharing more on that and you kind of appreciated it, but then kind of just brush it off and you're like, hey, how's your dinner going? Yeah. How have you gone about understanding? I guess two things of that, the the truth and the narrative of not fitting in with people around you, especially in your age group. Yeah. But then also being able to receive raise or compliments like that. Yeah. I mean, beautiful. I really appreciate you bringing that back up. Like simply put.

that moment I couldn't be with the compliment that I was re receiving, which was his almost admiration of me being able to not belong with my certain group, but be able to go and and connect with others outside of my age group. But I couldn't be with the fact that that was the case because that to me felt like I was not belonging. And so essentially

When he was asking me that or saying that, I took that as I don't want to feel what's underneath all of that. Like if we were to, and so it was a brushing off. It was what is underneath that, which was for me, I felt like I didn't belong with those who were younger than me or who were my age, because I desired to have different conversations. But even those who are older than me, they I felt like I could have those conversations, but they had families, they had kids, and I was like,

Tim Doyle (30:37.746)

Ver it would it just felt like there was two worlds, but I wasn't in either of them. and so that's one part which is like why I couldn't hold that. But to your part of like what's grown for me or how I've come into relationship with that is yeah, man, it's been a journey. I a few months ago, I went to a retreat, a shadow retreat. And so for a week, we're going into our shadows. And for anyone who's not very familiar with shadows.

The way I sometimes explain it is it's the things that we can't be with. And so for example, if you want to go talk to

Tim Doyle (31:16.978)

a a girl that you find super attractive or a guy that you find super attractive. But like in that moment you get really nervous because if you go there, it would be the idea of rejection or failure, or there's a s a talk you want to give. You want to get up on stages, but it's like, I don't really know. And like a lot of the things that stop us from going and doing those things is being with the feeling that might be on the other side of that. Right. And so oftentimes we'll live our lives having these desires of our own.

But they never get, they become unexpressed for the rest of our life and they fester and that's a whole different thing and they come out sideways. But for me, for this week, we would go into these shadows of basically saying, I'm gonna go into the darkest places of not belonging, of being alone, of these things where it like makes no sense to actually feel being lonely, to feel not belonging, or to feel embarrassment or rejection on that other side, right?

It's the things that were like, yeah, I would never want to feel that, or like, why would I want to feel that? but the thing is, I desire to have freedom in my own world. And when I don't have freedom to feel something, I'm basically doing everything I can not to. Right. It's the person who can work super hard and they can do that, but it would take a lot to be able to not. And it's like, yes, it's really great, but the beautiful world is this middle where you get to have the freedom to not do and do, and then you get to choose.

And like that is where there's so much power. And so then you can be, you know, on a holiday with your family and be fully present there. And then you can also go and do work and you can be there as well. And it's like that's where you get to choose and have the dynamic agility and and power. But for me, I went into not belonging and I felt not belonging. And when I felt not belonging, it was as simple as all of a sudden I realized when I felt it and I got it was emotional, it was difficult, it was hard. But I was like, I'm still alive.

Like the th the thing that often I was like, if I don't belong, I might die. Like I might like my survival instincts of I will not be a part of the tribe. Like to me it was death. But all of a sudden I was like, I still have my arms, I still have my legs, I'm alive. And then I started to see like some of the truth that was also beautiful in not belonging, where I was like, Yeah, I don't belong there because I also know I belong in an another place. And I know that I have my people and all of a sudden

Tim Doyle (33:42.252)

I find Austin, right? And it's like that's a big part of of the community that I've that I've found here. But it's really was a belonging with like, I'm okay not to belong and I'm also okay to belong. And I do choose to belong, but in the moments that I don't belong, I'm okay. If does that kind of make sense? Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, do you ever catch yourself? Cause I feel like I've certainly felt this before. Do you ever like catch yourself of like just making sure you're not getting into the narrative of like

Immediately stepping into a r a room or a new environment and not just going back to the almost like that sense of comfort in like, I don't belong. Hmm. The comfort of what was before my feeling of not belonging. Yeah. I mean I feel like, you know, we talk about bad feelings like these things are really bad, but we can find comfort in our stresses or what makes us feel lost. Yeah, totally.

Tim Doyle (34:43.605)

I would say like there's always moments where I go back into my comfort. Like it's it's it's it's l less about never having them. It's more about for me being able to notice them. Like I really believe life is a series of oscillations, like big time. And frankly, when we talk about balance, I think of balance is just the average of the oscillations rather than like fifty fifty.

And so it's like these oscillations of going into frankly, it was a deep oscillation into not belonging and another of belonging, but in this case like of comfort or of discomfort. And I think for me for five years, I did a lot of discomfort. Like I it was really constant of traveling, of exploring, of experiencing everything I possibly could, but I was not free to feel comfortable because I felt like I needed to be uncomfortable all the time.

And I think there's a beauty in it, but when I didn't have the freedom, what w when we don't have the freedom to do something and we have to do something, how does that feel? Like when you have to do something, what what do you experience? I don't know, for you, like without work or whatever, like in that energy, how does it feel when you have to be doing something? Yeah, I mean, I was definitely the culture that I grew up in and sort of like understood as like if you were not burnt out to a degree, then

There's more that you can be doing. Right. And it's just been an act of surrendering to that. Where, you know, I had the thought recently, like, I've gotten ahead by surrender surrendering to where I am. and I think environment is a huge part about that. Mm-hmm. And as you kind of said, it was burnt burned out in a lot of ways. Unless if you're not burned out, there's something wrong. But it's like when we need to do something.

we experience burnout. And that is one experience of life. It's not one that I choose to live myself. But when I need to do something, it becomes really exhausting. And it can be really beautiful of what it creates in your life. For me, I had a deep desire and and need to not be like everyone else because I was deeply afraid of being like everyone else when I was growing up. And what that created in me was all these different experiences. So it was beautiful in a lot of ways, but it also burned me out. And I by the end of it, I was exhausted.

Tim Doyle (37:11.074)

And I was like, can I just be? Can I just chill? Can I just let go? And it was really hard because I was afraid of what that would be. But when I was able to go in, just like this belonging thing, when we're able to be with that other side, all of a sudden we had the freedom to be like, Yeah, and that's kind of a release of like we're good. so for the comfort and the discomfort side, yeah, I step into the comf or like the comfort of of life, but I'm also okay with that.

Going back to that feeling component, what I find really interesting. So do you feel like you got really good at vocalizing and like we were saying, the power of language, do you feel like you really good got good at being able to understand the language behind what you were feeling, but then stopping there and not actually feeling it? Hmm. So understanding the language. Like you were saying, when you were at that retreat, when you're in that group setting.

You're able to verbalize the feelings that you had of being different or not fitting in and being alone. But then not being able to receive the compliment of that and not being able to actually feel what you were verbalizing. Yes. Like to be able to feel what I was receiving in a lot of Yeah. Or just like whatever sentiments you were sharing of like, I don't fit in with my Yeah, I see what you're saying. Yeah.

Yeah, right. It it's speaking the words but not allowing them to pierce through to the to the heart or to the truth of what it is. and I one thing is I don't think we mistake our language. So there's a piece that was so true in what I was speaking, but I was so afraid of what it would be like to actually feel that. And honestly, that's also why I don't think every place in the world is great for being able to feel those things. Like I'm not one to be like, Yeah, you should be feeling that all the time.

I think that's also that's a lot. which is why there's a creation of spaces. Like that's what I do with people one-on-one, but also group spaces. It's like when you feel wherever that for you, when you feel safe enough, if you can create a space safe enough for you to be able to be like, I don't really know what's gonna happen here, which is often the thing. That unpredictability, that unknown, being able to have that space to allow that for you to feel is sometimes the first time that you're ever gonna feel it.

Tim Doyle (39:35.02)

And like when you feel it, it's like, okay, I'm still here. I'm okay. Like I'm safe. but I think that's also one of the biggest things that's lacking right now is safe spaces for people to be able to talk about those things. And so that's one of my greatest missions in this world is it's why I've started to do multiple events every single week. And I mean, you've been at one of them, but it's like, how can I not just have my one on ones, but can I expand this to the rest of the world? Can I start sharing this and share this work and share this space?

which is the greatest service that I could ever offer. Yeah. Yeah, it goes back to that oscillating factor of just like not being in a constant being in a constant state of something is never healthy, no ma no matter if it's good or bad. Like I truly feel like you need to to appreciate a safe space, you need to be in unsafe spaces at times. to continue to go down this path about the intentionality of language and how language has

shaped your life and your work, and especially going to your group coaching sessions. Where is this understanding of big leap come from for you?

Tim Doyle (40:47.688)

When I look at the areas of my life that I have grown the most, when my life has just catapulted. Like there are areas of my life where it's like just kind of stays the same. And then there's like these moments in life where just like massive expansion. It's like what where what created that? What allowed for that? And I don't know if I'm sure you can probably think of some and and you shared actually in the event of like where were some of those. I think even doing this podcast was a was a big leap.

When we take those big leaps, that's where I grew the most. And when I grow the most and I expand the most, like all of a sudden I step into a new way of being. Like my experience of life is heightened, my my love for life, my freedom, my power is increased. And so for me, it's like, okay, this has been one of the most valuable things of my life of taking these big leaps, of saying, I might be scared out of my mind right now. I don't really know where this is gonna go, but there is something pulling me that I care more.

about trusting myself and following whatever this pull is than I do about what people think about me or what's gonna happen or how this is gonna look. And when I can trust that, that is where all of a sudden I start living a life way more in alignment. And it's like that experience of life is what I want to share. And so I looked at the source of it and it's like these are the big leaps. These are the moments where I was like, I'm living something, but there is something pulling me into something. I'm being called into something more that I can't ignore. It keeps coming up.

And it's like that's what I start listening to. And sometimes it's hard. It's like, can you please go away? But we listen to it. And when we listen to it, it's like, man, what a incredible adventure to go on, regardless of the outcome of it. But like the growth that will happen in that moment is phenomenal. And you literally, even if it's a one degree change, right? You've probably heard of the example of like the plane, one degree change from the beginning will have you hundreds of miles away from where you plan to go. And like in a good way, these big leaps happen.

Or create that. And so sharing that with others and creating that space to be like, all right, what is something that you're being called into right now? What is pulling at your heartstring? What is that part of you that you can't really ignore? That's like you would love to, but once you start thinking about it, it kind of you go into a spiral of like fear and doubt, or like, what if you were just to spend a few more seconds of space with that thing and just breathe with it?

Tim Doyle (43:15.554)

Or just be with it. What would it look like? And then all of a sudden you start creating more safety with that quote big leap. And it's hypothetical. I remember for me when I was in Hawaii. Here's one of my big leaps. I was in Hawaii and I went on a hike. And that week my intention was to allow these big desires, these big leaps to come in because I hadn't really been listening to, I think, the depth of what I wanted for for some time. And all of a sudden I was on this hike and these ideas started to come up. And I was like, no way am

Because these ideas were, what if you went back to school? What if you went to Argentina and played soccer? What if you went back, got a a master's degree and won like a national championship for soccer? And like these, these ideas, this, this just deep desire. I was like, there's no way. I'm like, this is impossible. But in the moment as they were coming up and just as I was shoving them down, I was like, I'm just gonna hold these. Hypothetically, I don't need to act on these, but I'm gonna hold this. And I'm just gonna play it out of what it would be like. What would I actually do?

And for the next hour and a half, I just played out this entire detailed vision of here's what I would do. And by the end of it, I was like, okay, if I were to do this, what would I do? And I was like, well, I would go buy a soccer ball and I would get some cleats again, because I haven't played in a little bit. And two weeks later I was on a flight to Argentina and going to do that. But the part of it was like, as you already know from listening to this podcast, like,

The outcome of Argentina was not necessarily what I intended. Absolutely the opposite of what I intended. But who I grow in grew into in that moment actually led me into the work that I'm doing now. And so to your question on big leaps, like that is the sauce. Like that is what I love to deliver and give to others in their life. Yeah, Argentina was a stepping stone for you for what you were supposed to do. Totally. And I like how you also framed it as, okay, we have this big leap, but then

It's grounded in these actual tangible steps of like, okay, I want to take this big leap and somehow become this soccer player in Argentina. What does that look like? All right, like let me get a pair of soccer cleaves. Yeah. Yep. I love how much we've been talking about the intentionality of language because when I reflected on what big leap means to me and you sharing, like, yeah, this podcast for me was taking a big leap, moving to Austin, Texas. That was a big leap.

Tim Doyle (45:36.906)

I quit a job without having another job lined up because it just felt like it was time. In the moment that felt like a big leap. What I feel like all of that was grounded in and what I come back to and understand for like why I was able to take those moves within my life. We have this understanding of, I got my big break in life. And we understand that as, I finally made it. Like this is my.

You know, this is my launching pad to the top. I don't think that exists for people. Where I do use that language though, and where I've had a lot of conversations with people on this is understanding of I had a big break. And what I mean by that is this deconstruction, this breaking down, or specifically like a specific event of like, yeah, that like completely broke me down and deconstructed that for me.

And then that is what allows you to take the big leap or the big leaps because you're like, I was completely broken. That was actually tough and scary to go through. These leaps that we consider big leaps, these are just like little steps to take now. Sure. Where within your life do you feel like you've had those big breaks? Hmm. Man, I'll I'll answer that. But just to acknowledge as well, when I met you at the retreat

Must have been a year or a year and a half ago. Like there was longer than that now, I feel like almost two years then. Two, two and a half. Yeah. So

in that time hearing about your back and that story and the process that you went through, like that was a grueling period of life where it's like, I don't know how much further you were looking in the future other than there is something at the current moment that is is super uncomfortable and I don't know how this is going to impact the rest of my life. And I'm sure the fear and the doubt that comes with that, right? And so that's also part of so many of our journeys. That that I don't wish that upon anyone, right? Where it's like there is deep, deep pain, but I also know pain

Tim Doyle (47:42.284)

In one thing, I f forgot who said it, but it's like I don't wish to take the pain away from anyone because of what it potentially could be teaching them. And that's also super hard because I think a lot of us like to try and take the pain away from people. But sometimes the greatest thing we can do is just be love and with them in that moment and just be like, I see you and I hear you. And but like experiencing that and then really in a lot of ways getting to the other side of it and taking it into your own agency and your own responsibility and experiencing that and you've

now experience that multiple times. And so you have data points around that. And so you've built evidence on that. And so now what you get to do is keep one, sharing that with others of how was that created? Because I think a lot of us out there who maybe haven't had those experiences are looking for that of like, how do I take this first one? Because if you look at a rocket ship, the most amount of energy or the most amount of fuel used in a rocket ship is upon launch. Right. It's that initial moment. And it's like that's where you get to have

the amount of support of like, yes, you got this. and to have a group around you to do it because oftentimes the these big leaps, which is why I'm doing in groups, is lonely. People, we try to do these leaps alone. And I'm, you know, I've done a lot of leaps alone and like I've done them. And that's part of my own journey, my growth. But I also find them super powerful when you're doing them around others and you start experiencing that, man, these other people are also doing these leaps. And they've taken these leaps. And so one is

those initial leaps and not to forget what that experience is like. And then two, even for me right now, when I'm taking these leaps, I'm still scared out sometimes out of my mind, right? And I'm like, when I started doing events, I had one person show up to my first event. I shared this. Like I was in Florence. I was like, I'm gonna do events because I'm being called into this. One person showed up. I was almost hoping nobody did because I was like, at the end of this, I know I'm gonna have massive events. And it's like, I'm gonna share this story of having nobody show up to my first event, but one person did. And

I made it the best time they've ever experienced, but it was like I was super embarrassed. It's like, my God, is one person gonna show up to the rest of my events? And the the part of it was just like, Okay, I'm gonna keep showing up for this. I took that leap and how can I keep showing up for it in that consistency? But

Tim Doyle (49:58.156)

took it a little bit in a different direction, but for you on those like deconstructing, right? And that idea of those moments that and for you that that deconstruction was over a period of time or is it a specific moment that you're kind of talking about? Yeah. No, I mean it was a period of time. I mean it was seven months of me being deconstructed, broken down and then healing from that pain.

I mean it's a never ending journey because I'm still living it out, but I would say like a real I would say like two year period of just like, wow, like I completely got transformed here into a different person. Sure. Yeah.

And I think that's the piece that's so valuable as well. As hard as it can sometimes be. Like that it's like what I try and focus on for myself is outcome versus growth, right? The orientation of where I focus. And it's one thing I was watching the NBA playoffs and I was deeply drawn to the greatness of Victor Wembenyama, like Wemby. I like, wow, this man is gonna be the greatest basketball player of all time. I just like

deeply was drawn to how he held himself and and carried himself. And I was like, this is something that I my leap was like, we are going to be working together. Like this is how can I serve him in being the greatest player of all time? And part of me was like, I started speaking that into the world and I started sharing it. And then after a while I I started I stopped. And I was like, why why did I stop to and I started going through my thought process and like the words.

And I saw it was

Tim Doyle (51:45.034)

I had the vision of it. I was really deeply connected to it. And then I stopped because it felt too far off. And so what that means is I stopped because the outcome, not because of all of the last few weeks of what I've learned, of who I become, of what I who I've connected with. Like I grew so much in that time, but I stopped because the outcome was too far off, or I made it to be too far off. And so when I switch.

To the growth of what these big leaps will come, like there is a lot higher chance that I continue doing that. And counterintuitively, not even counterintuitively, I'm gonna get a lot closer to that thing or be a lot closer when I'm focused on that growth. Is that something that I don't know if you found that for your own self of that switch of being more focused on the growth of maybe that's even with your podcast or with your work or what this looks like versus the outcome and where that is going for you?

I've come to the appreciation and going back to the shifting of language, framing things from curiosity rather than ambition. So instead of this is what I want to come from this, framing it as I wonder what will come from this. And

understanding things, especially when it comes to podcasting. And I was talking about this with Steven Pressfield because I mean the guy went on a gauntlet of a journey before he was recognized for his craft and what he feels like he was put on this earth to do. And what I talked about with him is I feel like when it comes to some type of project or some type of work, the question that we should be asking ourselves isn't, you know, how long is this going to take to turn into something?

What we should be asking ourselves is, is this something that I can't live without? Like is this something that I just don't want to stop? Because if the answer isn't yes to that, it's like, well, you haven't found the thing. That's my perspective on it. Interesting. So it's I feel like a lot of it has come from framing things in questions. Obviously, being a podcaster, it's all about questions. So framing things is, you know, curiosity driven, question driven. But like you were saying.

Tim Doyle (54:03.48)

And this goes with the feeling. Like I feel this deep within my body. Like I have visions of like seeing myself at a table and s you know, in front of certain people, or like I will, you know, kind of like

Set out like a playbook of like, like when I get this person, I'm going to ask this specific question and go into vocalizing, I will literally say that question out loud. and I've seen like certain things come to life like that already. And so it's also about just like continuing to chase that feeling. It's not from a standpoint of, you know, ambition or accomplishments or accolades. Obviously, it's normal, it's human for our ego to want that. Obviously, I want that as well. I'm not saying that I'm altruistic. It's like, no, that doesn't.

You know, that doesn't you know, satisfy me at all. It's like, of course it does. But it's it's about chasing the feeling and honestly just chasing the high of like having these types of conversations and being within this environment. And I certainly have it here today. Yeah. When you say the words chasing the feeling and chasing the high, how does that land in your like how does that feel in your groundedness as you yeah, as you speak that? I think it goes to groundedness. Like I just I feel like

locked in the ground. like it's not wishy washy at all. It's just like boom. Mm. And I feel like a lot of times going back to that either or, like we can feel like, pulled in certain ways, but I know and I've going back to the data points, I have enough data points of like when I'm in this type of environment, it just locks me in. Totally. And can we be at that like frequency for longer periods of time? I was just talking to a guy who wants to build this massive institute. And

He was talking about the vision and I had chatted with him a few weeks earlier, and it was or a few months earlier, and it was so deep ingrained in him of like, this is what I'm gonna create. This is the vision, this is the grounding I have around it. And then I chatted with him a little bit ago and and it wasn't it was like it it kind of went away. And I'm all for understanding when things are misaligned, but this thing still felt super core to who he who they were. and I asked him.

Tim Doyle (56:12.236)

Like what what changed? And he's like, Yeah, it just kind of went away. Like I had this vision of what I wanted to do and it just kind of went by the wayside. And I was like, Okay. But what we started to delve into and what we got to was like he just stopped feeding that vision. He stopped feeding it. And I think a lot of us, and myself included, really try to be like, I'm gonna find the thing and then that thing's never gonna go away. And it's even and I'm gonna make the comparison to actually like marriage.

Based on just what I experienced growing up, of the parents I had really emphasized to me that it's like, and I'm so very grateful for who they are, but they were like, we commit to each other every single day. It's like they have a beautiful vision for their life, for us and my siblings. But it's like they commit to that, they get ingrained with that vision each and every day because we forget about that. Same thing with the words, and we so we create it. And so.

A main piece is to keep reminding ourselves and getting in that vision. It's like we talk about it. Like I remember going to Tony Robbins events. I mean, I've been in the self-help world and in for for probably six, seven years. And just in those six, seven years, it was like, it was like get really in touch, get really connected. And sometimes it's like, why, why do you do that? Like, what's the real purpose of that? I hear that all the time. but when you're connected to something, when you're so driven, when you speak, when you're in

A room with high frequency people, you are in the energy of whatever that vision is for you, or in that energy of what you would love to be and do. I was just on a call the other day with this incredible coach called Steve Hardison. And his energy, that man, I've never seen more love in my life. Like he has more self-love for himself, for others, more intensity, more fire, more passion. I was like, I'm ready to run through a brick wall. And I'm also grounded in this is the energy that I want to be around.

Then I can sometimes step out of that and like forget, but it's like, why not stay and surround myself with that energy? And so when you're talking about this podcast and when you're in this energy of what you would love, it's like, what would it look like for you to be around it more, to be in that vision? Because sometimes we also intentionally take ourselves out of that energy because it's a little, it's a little scary. And I and and I hear you and I hear myself. And it's like, I kind of don't want to be in because we're in that and we're like,

Tim Doyle (58:38.562)

Man, this is this is a lot. This might be a journey. This might be an adventure. But like, what if I can stick in this energy for a little bit longer? What if I can actually create this to say, yeah, I'm gonna take a little step forward. I'm gonna commit to this today, tomorrow, and the next. And we'll get to maybe the next, but like today, I'm in this energy. And how can I be around that? And whether that's a declaration of your own of like, this is the energy of who I'm gonna be, or whether that's around doing more podcasts or being, I remember when I started coaching at the start of this year.

I would watch Peter Crone, Tony Robbins, the best coaches videos at night. Like I would just watch them and I'd be like so hyped up because I was like so fascinated with how they really tuned into people, how they helped people. And I was like learning and taking notes, but I was in that energy of of who they are. And it just inspired me even more so. And so I just share that as like that energy is something that when we're around it, like it elevates us to another level. It's not just something that's like,

I experienced this once. It's cool. But what about consciously creating that more often? Yeah. What's the declaration that you have for yourself right now? I have multiple, but the one that comes to mind for me is I'm the greatest coach in the world. And that that declaration for me is something that

just instills in me an energy of like, this is going to be of greatest service to me, to those I work with, to those I speak with. And like, man, I hope there's a lot of greatest coaches in the world because the amount of impact and more beautiful world that we'll create, amazing. And in the meantime, like that to me is where a lot of power and energy comes from. so that is one that really at the current moment aligns and gets me gets me fired up. Ben Brumell, I think that's a

Beautiful place to end. Where can people go to learn more about you? Anything else you'd like to share? Any final thoughts?

Tim Doyle (01:00:33.25)

Thank you. Like deep gratitude for you and the human you are, the impact that you are creating on this planet. It's remarkable. And to be able to experience this, to share and and to be a part of this, it's an honor for me. So thank you.

Tim Doyle (01:00:50.382)

And people connecting with me. Like all of my social handles are Ben Brummel, B R U E L L. And then I'm doing both in person events here in Austin weekly and online. And so those are free like group coaching big leap, like offering space for people to create and architect and like that. Anyone is welcome, more than welcome on those yeah.

I can say it firsthand because I've experienced it. you create an incredible space and it definitely fills the room up with an intense energy that feels really, really good, but also at the end of the day, very calming. So, and that's a special thing to be able to do. Thank you. I appreciate that.