The Outworker
The relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect. These conversations will hopefully allow you to develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#017 - Nate Boyer - Green Beret-NFL Player Turned Filmmaker
Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret, NFL player turned filmmaker. He shares his journey from aspiring filmmaker at 19 years old to the military service, to football, and then ultimately back to storytelling. He discusses the challenges of creating his movie "MVP," which explores the struggles veterans and athletes face after their careers end. Nate offers insights on pursuing dreams and the importance of authenticity in storytelling. This conversation is a testament to perseverance, creativity, and finding purpose beyond one's primary identity.
Timestamps:
00:00 Finding Purpose Through Storytelling
02:52 The Intersection of Veterans and Athletes
05:40 Collaboration and Authenticity in Filmmaking
08:40 The Power of Storytelling to Change Lives
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What’s up Outworkers. Nate Boyer is a former Green Beret, NFL player turned filmmaker. He shares his journey from aspiring filmmaker at 19 years old to the military service, to football, and then ultimately back to storytelling. He discusses the challenges of creating his movie "MVP," which explores the struggles veterans and athletes face after their careers end. Nate offers insights on pursuing dreams and the importance of authenticity in storytelling. This conversation is a testament to perseverance, creativity, and finding purpose beyond one's primary identity.
Tim (00:07.79)
You've said that the origin for you wanting to be a film filmmaker and tell stories was from the fact that you didn't like your own personal story. What didn't you like?
Nate (00:22.414)
I mean, I think I think it's just a, you know, something that a lot of people deal with, especially at a young age, not, you know, not feeling like your your whether you call it self -esteem issues or whatever, feel like you fit in, feel like people understand you and stuff like that. And yeah, so I mean, that was that was a very young thought. That was something that
19 that sort of hit me and and was why I first went up to to LA from San Diego. I was down there, you know, dropped out of school, was working on a fishing boat and then was like, man, filmmaking looks cool. So I moved to LA interested in starting that journey and I didn't I didn't really I didn't really know where that would lead me.
I didn't really know where to start. I didn't know anybody. So while I took some acting classes and, you know, thought about film school, I didn't really pursue it wholeheartedly until much, much later. And then I started to live that life, you know, started to do those things and maybe create what I would consider an interesting story for myself and the things that I did and sort of following my heart down that path.
and eventually came back to filmmaking 15 years later, you know, after serving in the military and playing football and doing all these other things. So I think at that point too, I understood, I had a better grasp of what is a compelling story and how do you tell them, how important are they, how important is it that they are told and sort of.
very much developed my filmmaker brain just from living life a little bit.
Tim (02:18.158)
So you were a Green Beret and you played football at Texas and then for the Seattle Seahawks. So you've lived at this cross section between sports and military. How did these experiences and being able to identify both as a veteran and as an athlete influence the direction of your movie MVP?
Nate (02:21.934)
Yeah. Right.
Nate (02:42.542)
I mean, it had everything to do with it. It was like, even the words written on the page were the voices of veterans and athletes I'd met over the years and spent time with, you know. So it was more transcribing than creating the script. And then from a directorial standpoint, it's just understanding.
The story that I wanted to tell first of all, which was not the story that Hollywood typically tells as far as our experiences with post -traumatic stress, what we struggle with, why it can be harder once you come home, even if you've seen some pretty traumatic stuff at war. And similarly with the athlete side, you know, being in that locker room playing football for five years and
And understanding the pressure that goes with that and how much these athletes pour everything into that from a very young age. You know, they're eight years old and they're like, this is all I want to do. I want to be the best and I want to play in the pros and, you know, and then 15, 20 years later, whatever it is and it ends, they get cut. It's over. There's no backup plan. There never was. Cause if there was a backup plan.
they'd be second guessing themselves and wouldn't have the confidence to get to the level they got to. And all of a sudden you're still in your 20s, maybe 30s if you're lucky and it's like, you feel like you've peaked and you'll never be great again. And that's not the way it should work. That's not how it is for most anything else. And vets and athletes share that, the struggle with losing.
the team and the camaraderie and the mission and the identity that goes with that uniform and kind of being stripped of that and not knowing who you are now or who you ever were really, because to everybody else you were an athlete or a vet. And it's not true, you're just human beings that made that choice. So that was what that movie was all about, both of those sides coming to grips with that and understanding, trying to understand that like.
Nate (04:45.678)
This is just a chapter, you know, and it's an awesome one, but I can I can move on and I can do other things and it's OK, you know, so I should remember it and be proud of it. But I'm not. I'm not just that, you know, I'm so much more.
Tim (05:06.51)
Yeah, I think to a large degree, we have a romanticized view of sports in the military, especially when it's in the media and entertainment industries. And I think MVP definitely tries to combat this and it doesn't in a very successful way. And I also believe that creative work and expressing ourselves in a more artistic manner, especially for people who are heavily involved in
sports or the military aren't necessarily able to tap into them those that side of themselves as much. What did you learn about yourself personally from the entire process of creating the movie?
Nate (05:52.75)
I learned that, well, I learned that while I have strong opinions and ideas about what right looks like, it's not always the best way or the easiest way or the path of least resistance, you know, it's not always the way that makes sense for everybody else.
and learning to be more collaborative, you know, and it's ironic because of course you learn teamwork in the military and you learn it in sports. But when it comes to filmmaking, you know, you kind of need one voice to follow or everybody gets confused about, you know, who's in charge, A, but also what is the actual vision for this?
movie and this scene and this character and whatever. So while maintaining, learning to maintain that voice and be that leader, but also be very open to other people's input and opinions and kind of let people do their job as well, which is hard. It's hard for me. I'm very like, I want to double and triple check everything. Even when it's people I trust, I'm just like,
I need to see it for myself, you know? And that can be challenging. But it's important, you know? Mo MacRae, who plays the Will Phillips character in MVP, he calls it a collective genius. And you don't always agree, you don't always get along all the time. And, you know, there's contention and stress and...
It's long days and especially on a low budget, it's hard, you know, and people are sacrificing a lot and you got to recognize that, that everybody there is sacrificing and they're all trying to help your vision come to life, you know, otherwise they wouldn't be there, especially when there's no money, because they ain't doing it for the money. So yeah, I think that that's something that, you know, that that is learned and still it's a struggle, but I think I'm getting better.
Nate (08:07.438)
But yeah, it's important. It's important.
Tim (08:09.934)
What was the biggest challenge in making the movie?
Nate (08:15.31)
COVID probably was the biggest challenge as far as production goes. Otherwise, like, you know, when you're a low budget film and even with very talented people that were assisting, you know, both in front of and behind the camera, if you don't have a big splashy star in the film, it's hard to sell. It's hard to get out there.
So the challenge was making something marketable that was also authentic to this story of merging vets and players, the organization that the genesis of the organization is what the film is, how it started. And it's based on true story and real people. And there were certain things I didn't wanna lose like.
The authenticity on screen to we we we cast I cast all veterans to play those veteran roles. You know, every vet portrayed on screen is played by an actual vet. And then a lot of those athletes, you know, you recognize some of them if you're a sports fan, but they're playing themselves. And that's hard, you know, I mean, and they act some, but it's not like there's a lot of actors out there that work quite a bit more and a lot more experience. But I knew they wouldn't quite understand the world in the same way.
So I didn't want to give that up. But when you don't want to give that up, you know, you're giving up potential marketability and sale ability. And. And that's tough for distributors and studios to get wrapped their head around, you know, because they're used to. Well. It doesn't matter how good the movie is, you don't have, you know, an A -lister in it. It's like. OK, then I guess.
we'll see if somebody else is interested, you know, and we actually had some really huge names interested. We almost, you know, Sony almost distributed the film, which would have been amazing. But it worked out exactly how it needed to, you know, getting that, getting film rise behind it and eventually, you know, selling it to, or licensing it anyway, to Showtime. And so now, you know, with their...
Nate (10:25.102)
Partnership with Paramount Plus and then Amazon Prime and Apple TV and others have jumped in and you're able to see the movie there as well. Pretty incredible considering the humble beginnings and the very humble budget in which we made the film. It's done okay, it's done pretty damn well.
Tim (10:50.382)
Yeah, so you were the writer, the producer, the casting agent, and you're also the main character in the movie, which I absolutely love. And you've also talked about, I've heard you say how you think being naive is one of your strengths. And I think it gets into this understanding of almost having a delusional confidence about getting something done. How do you think this benefited you in taking this idea for a movie and executing on it?
Nate (11:12.206)
Yeah.
Nate (11:18.702)
Yeah, no, that's a good question. And there's definitely a fine line there with, look, there's a lot of delusion in Hollywood. There's a lot of people that I think there's a difference between.
sort of like creative delusion and delusion or naivety in the sense of not letting yourself being psyched out, you know, not looking at the odds and looking at the numbers and looking at, you know, why most people don't even try. If you don't go down that path, that's a good, that's a good decision to make.
When it comes to delusion of like, you know, like with our movie, we were so lucky to have Sylvester Stallone put his name on it, you know, as an executive producer. And he hasn't really asked for anything. But like. For me to think on our budget that he was going to be in the movie, that's that's the kind of delusion that will get people stuck. They get in their own way and they'll be like, no, this story is important and it deserves somebody like that. That'll get it on the big screen.
And I'm not saying that that's invalid. I'm just saying, good luck. You probably aren't gonna ever make your movie then. So what's more important? Is it making the film or is it making it exactly how you imagined in your dreams? And that's just the reality. That's what you have to let go of. But staying naive to the fact that
3 % of movies make money, right? Most 97 % of them never see a dollar. Most of them don't even get distribution. They don't really get out there. And so, not psyching myself in that regard. Focusing all that energy on like, just make a really good movie. Tell a great story. Get the best people you can. And we had a lot of, to have...
Nate (13:28.238)
to have Tom Arnold come on and do this amazing cameo. And then obviously like Strahan and Howie Long and Jay Glazer and Tony Gonzalez and Randy Couture and all these people that are in the athlete world that are very popular give their energy and their time. I mean, I had to pay them a little bit because that's the rules from the union, but they didn't ask for a penny more than the scale, which is very low, especially from what they're used to making. So it's like...
It's awesome. Rich Eisen, you know, to go on to be able to do that. And it was like once we got the bar rolling and it was like, we're just making this thing and it's happening and here we go. You'd be surprised who's like who's down if they got the day free, if you can work around their schedule, they'll give you a few hours. I'll give you a day like they, you know, they'll do it if they believe in the mission. But if you're just like going to wait until you get. You know, that delusion of like, you know, I need to have.
all these big name people in it and whatever. If you've never made a movie before, like good luck, man. It's, I hope it happens for you, but the odds are not in your favor and you gotta like prove yourself first. You gotta go out there and just make something. Just go make stuff, make movies, make anything to show that you can do it. And...
Even if it's not great, then make another one, you know, screw it. It's the same thing with relationships. If it doesn't work out, find somebody else, move on. cause most of them don't, you know, but that's how you learn and that's how you grow. And this waiting around for the perfect moment. And you know, like, I wrote this, I wrote this character for whoever. And if I don't get them, then I'm not making the movie like, all right, then you're probably not going to make the movie.
Tim (15:18.158)
Yeah, I think that goes to how you're saying how you had these very big athletes wanting to or agreeing to be in the movie. I think that just goes to the strength of the story and actually having a very strong mission behind that story and purpose rather than just strictly entertainment. And I love how you said earlier how all the veterans in the movie are people who are actually ex veterans. How important
Nate (15:35.598)
Yeah.
Tim (15:47.15)
Was it for getting more so into the creative side, allowing people like that who maybe didn't have an opportunity in their life to explore their creativity, to give people like that an avenue to explore that creativity.
Nate (16:02.83)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, first of all, I mean, you just said it. What drew people to it was the organization was what emerging best in players does for vets and athletes and who were there for the community we support. And then it was probably a very smart business strategy in retrospect. I wasn't thinking of it that way at the time, but just to cast those vets and athletes because they're connected so much to the organization and the story.
and then when it came to, when it comes to opportunity, you know, a lot of those guys, especially on the veteran side had never acted. Well, that's not true. They were pursuing it, maybe taking classes, maybe worked on a student project or two, but this was like their first movie, first opportunity, first, you know, role. And, and they were so grateful to get it and they were worked very hard at the characters.
and they auditioned for them. They're sending in self -tapes and all this stuff. And then I would tell them afterwards, I told them later, I'm like, look, you guys are awesome. And I appreciate all the work you put into this character and memorizing these lines and doing that, whatever. But when we're in...
when we're on set on the day, I'm just like, you know this character is just you though, right? Like you don't have to, you can kind of say, as long as you're getting across the same point, you can generally say whatever you want. And they're like, well, no, I like what you wrote. And I'm like, well, then you can say that too. I'm just letting you know this character's you. Like I tried to write this. I tried to write, once I cast you, I rewrote the script.
in your voice as best as I could, but you know your voice better than anybody. So there's something else as long as it doesn't contradict the story or the scene. Try it. You know, let's let's do that. Whatever you feel comfortable because it's all like when Tony Gonzalez and Randy Couture sharing their story, it's their story. They've told that story before at an MVP huddle. And that's why I know about it. So that's why I asked them just to tell their story. And there was it was scripted to, but they didn't.
Nate (18:09.358)
And they read their lines and did their best to, you know, sort of memorize it. But at the same time, their best performance is the cuts that we use. The takes that worked were when they just kind of spoke from the heart, you know, just kind of told their own story and just relaxed into themselves, which is hard to do. Playing yourself is probably the hardest character to play.
Tim (18:30.414)
Yeah, there's such a raw, authentic feeling when watching the movie. And I think my favorite thing about the movie is there's such a humanizing effect to it, especially when you're having these big name athletes. And that scene with Tony Gonzalez is probably my favorite scene in the entire movie.
Nate (18:50.222)
on the mat or on the basketball court? Yeah.
Tim (18:52.238)
on the mat when he's explaining how first year out of retirement, he's in Spain with his wife on vacation and he's just like, I won't be great again. I peaked and he feels lost. And it's so incredible because this guy is 17 year NFL career, one of the best tight ends of all time hall of Famer. And this person that we see as extraordinary one of one
And he just humanizes himself with this very relatable story. And I mean, you've had a very interesting journey throughout your life. How you talked about earlier, you started in L .A. when you were 19 years old, because that's when you first wanted to get into filmmaking and then you joined the military at 24. Then you go on to play college football.
and go to college at almost 30 and then you sign with the Seahawks and then back to filmmaking. And I feel like to give yourself the freedom and the permit permission to evolve like that as a person and go down these different paths, it's easier said than done. How do you think you were able to do it?
Nate (20:12.302)
I think just.
Nate (20:18.254)
somewhat quietly putting in the work before people even know this is something you're sort of dreaming about and interested in. Like, I think oftentimes, you know, people have an idea and they'll start telling everybody, hey, I'm going to do this thing. And maybe they will. Maybe that's their way to hold themselves accountable. But I'll typically do some research and start working towards it like with football.
without telling a bunch of people, this is something I'm planning on trying to do. I'm going to go try out for the long ones, you know, when I get in school and, you know, maybe tell one or two people that are, that you trust that are close with you, that'll give you advice and, you know, discourage you for the wrong reasons, you know, discourage you cause they're jealous or they think you shouldn't go for it. Cause they never would. and just to see if you're actually into that thing and, and also to kind of
see what sticks, see what makes sense and see if like you enjoy the work. Cause you, cause life is when you're pursuing dreams, especially competitive lofty ones that are very hard to achieve. You better like the work to get there. Cause most of the time the work is the only reward you see, you know what I mean? So if you're so result oriented and it's to you, it's not worth it unless you achieve the thing.
better pick something you know you can achieve, you know, and that's not my way. I like to go after things I don't think I can do, or I think maybe that's not true. I think there's a chance I could, but I know the odds are stacked against me and I'm probably not built for this thing. I'm not the most talented person and, you know, I'll listen a little bit to that voice in my head that's kind of negative and be like, all right, but what makes me happier than anything
is proving that voice wrong, because it's not you, it's just a voice in your head. And so, yeah, I think that that's the, you have to put the work in, you have to put the work in once people know about it well before they do. And you can't expect the scoreboard to read a certain thing at the end of the.
Nate (22:44.142)
of the work, you know what I mean? Like you got to just focus on what you can control. And that's your effort and how much time you put in and your commitment and you know, your your.
the sort of the, I don't know how to say this, almost like the oracles you seek out, like the people, the wise old owls, you know, and the people you ask for advice and ask questions to, like finding those people, emailing, not being afraid to send a message. I mean.
You know, just you in this podcast, man, you slid into my DMS and just said, hey, I want you on the show. And I was honest. I was like, I don't have a ton of time. I'm not sure. Blah, blah, blah. And you're like, cool. Well, whenever you can, let me know. I'll make it happen. I'll make it work. And what is it? It's a week later and we made it work. So like that's all it takes. Three days later, all you got to do is it feels like a week because I was doing a million, billion things. But all you all you got to do is just hang it out there. And if you're not.
Tim (23:43.374)
But not even, I think it's three days later.
Nate (23:54.094)
And if you're not fixated on that result, like if the answer would have been no, or if I, if, if I just wouldn't have been able to make it work and it just cool, you know, ask a hundred more people, you know, you'll find, you'll find that person. You'll find the guy that'll have the time and, and, and, and they'll be glad that they did it, like I am. So, anyway, that's, that's what it takes though. You got to knock on the doors and, you know, make phone calls and just don't be attached to.
the result and don't be so worried about you're gonna get no a lot. And if you get no a lot and those yeses just mean that much more to you, you know, it's a good feeling and you kind of know you're on the right track and I don't know, I'm the kind of person that if things are happening too easy, something's not right. It's either I gotta up the stakes or there's something fishy going on here, so.
Yeah, it's just the way it is.
Tim (24:53.006)
Yeah, I always think that if you're in it for the results, you're probably going to be losing to somebody who's just in it for the work and maybe results will come down the line. My last question for you is one of my favorite sayings is don't ask for a seat, build a table. And I feel like that's exactly what you've done with MVP and the movie. What do you think you want to build next?
Nate (25:00.558)
Yeah.
Nate (25:21.454)
I definitely want to keep doing this and telling stories. I do enjoy that. And it's not because I don't like my own story anymore. It's just because I think it's important to do. And it can change people's lives. A lot of stories I've seen and read and whatever have shifted my thinking on something or made me try a different path.
that maybe changed my entire life. Maybe it was just something, a story somebody told me about somebody or whatever. That's the one thing, I don't know who said that, but that's sort of the one thing that sets us apart from the other species, I think, is that we have a history.
Yeah, and maybe maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there maybe we just don't understand how other animals communicate history in that way. But we tell stories, you know, and we make things and and and and I think that that's I'm pretty addicted to that. This is the longest I've been at something and haven't sort of pivoted. So and it's not that long. It's only really I've really only been at it about eight years now. But.
Yeah, this is.
Tim (26:41.55)
I love how you think of that as not long, as eight years, because there's so many people who would think, if I'm doing this for two years, that's a long time. But if you have that sort of long -term mindset, it's like I'm very early in this game.
Nate (26:47.246)
Yeah.
Nate (26:51.118)
Right. Well, yes. I mean, if it had been if it was eight years. And I still hadn't made anything, I probably would have pivoted a long time ago, right? But I started making stuff right away, even small stuff. It was just like, sure, I'll work on that. I'll go in turn there. I'll read this. I'll start writing something. You know, that's the cool thing about storytelling. Anybody can do it. It doesn't matter what your physical or mental.
abilities are, you can do it. You can create art in some way. Anybody can. That's all. Not everybody can play football. I get that. Not everybody can do a lot of things, but anybody can do that. Anybody can tell a story. And so if you have a hankering at all to do it, there's a lot of mediums in which you can do that. You don't have to make movies. You don't have to write books. You can do anything.
Then you should do it. It's a good it's good for us. It's a good it's I think it's part of who we are as people and what we need to do So, I don't know I mean Little things have come up along the way. I ran a hundred miles last year and in Leadville, Colorado, which was awesome. The Leadville 100 trail race is a Is it absolute beast? It's one of the hardest things I ever did and I love it But I don't want to be an ultra runner, you know I like to challenge myself in different ways
But I think as far as a consistent part of me from now on at some level, I think will be storytelling. And we'll see how that shifts. I've done some on the unscripted side and of course with MVP and some other things I'm working on some narrative projects as well. But yeah, right now I'm working on a 80th anniversary.
D -Day documentary. I was out there in Normandy for the anniversary and we filmed for about 10 days there and we're going to continue to collect these stories and these World War II vets, you know, the youngest one we met out there was 97 and the oldest one was 104. And that's there's not going to be any of them left in 10 years. You know, that's just the reality. So we got to we got to get these. We got to keep that.
Nate (29:12.398)
that legacy moving forward and and make sure that anybody that has ever wanted to tell their story that hasn't had the opportunity has that opportunity and has a platform to do it. So that's that's something that's important to me right now as well. So that's a slight shift from what I was doing before. But yeah, I'll keep I'll keep telling stories. I'm pretty sure about that.
Tim (29:35.182)
Nate, where can people go to find you and support your work with MVP?
Nate (29:40.014)
Yeah, just for me, at Nate Boyer 37 on social media, pretty much across the board, I do have a website, nateboyer .org as well. If you'd like to reach out, connect with me, please do. But for emerging vets and players, MVP, our website is vetsandplayers .org.
And, you know, we've got chapters all over the country. I would encourage you first, anybody out there, go watch the movie. Please watch the movie. It'll tell you everything you need to know about the organization. And I think it's a good movie too. I'm a little biased, but I think we did a good job. I didn't like it for a very long time until I, the first time I saw it in a theater was with 350 veterans and athletes. And that's the first time I got emotional because I could feel the emotion in the room.
And after that, I walked out and I was like, all right, it's a good movie. I did a good job. We did a good job, you know, but it took a while through the whole edit. I was like, man, I screwed it up. I didn't do it right. It could have been better. It could have been so much better. And it probably could. Everything could be better. But I think we did a great job. So go watch the movie. Go to vets and players dot org on social media. We're at merging vets and players on Instagram and I believe at vets and players on X and some other.
socials as well. But, but yeah, engage with us. We've got eight chapters around the country in LA, Vegas, Chicago, Atlanta, New York, Seattle, Dallas and Phoenix. And now we're more recently starting to operate in Austin, Nashville, Jacksonville, the DC area, and hopefully soon to be New Orleans. We'd like to get something going out there for the Super Bowl this next year. So we'll see.
But definitely, definitely connect with us.
Tim (31:30.542)
Nate, I appreciate you for coming on the Outworker.
Nate (31:33.646)
Thank you, Tim. Appreciate you, brother.
