The Outworker
The relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect. These conversations will hopefully allow you to develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#018 - Amy Downs - 6 Hours Buried Alive For A Lifetime Of Transformation
Amy Downs recounts her harrowing experience surviving the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Buried under 10 feet of rubble for six hours, Amy discusses how this life-altering event sparked a profound personal transformation, leading her from obesity to becoming an Ironman triathlete. Amy offers powerful insights on overcoming survivor's guilt, finding hope in dark times, and the importance of living life to its fullest. Her story is a testament to the idea that sometimes when you think you’ve been buried, you’ve actually been planted.
Timestamps:
00:00 The Impact of Alone Time and Upbringing
08:28 Surviving the Oklahoma City Bombing
24:36 Healing Through Gardening and Setting Goals
27:15 Surviving and Rebuilding After the Oklahoma City Bombing
34:49 From Gastric Sleeve Surgery to Becoming an Ironman
46:57 The Power of Community and Connection Through Cycling
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What’s up Outworkers. Amy Downs recounts her harrowing experience surviving the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. Buried under 10 feet of rubble for six hours, Amy discusses how this life-altering event sparked a profound personal transformation, leading her from obesity to becoming an Ironman triathlete. Amy offers powerful insights on overcoming survivor's guilt, finding hope in dark times, and the importance of living life to its fullest. Her story is a testament to the idea that sometimes when you think you’ve been buried, you’ve actually been planted.
Tim (00:07.31)
I had a similar family dynamic to you from the standpoint that I'm also the youngest in my family and there's also a pretty sizable age gap between me and my siblings. So I had a little bit of a different upbringing compared to my siblings from the time I was in sixth grade to the time I went off to college. I was the only one in my house. So there was obviously
Amy Downs (00:21.259)
Okay.
Amy Downs (00:28.395)
Mm -hmm.
Tim (00:36.302)
A lot of alone time.
Amy Downs (00:37.899)
Yeah, did they think you were spoiled?
Tim (00:40.494)
No, I don't think they thought I was spoiled. I think they just saw it as a different upbringing than, than them. Right. Yeah.
Amy Downs (00:46.987)
Yeah, yeah. They thought I was real. They told me all the time. I had it easy compared to them, so.
Tim (00:52.654)
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I just had a very different relationship with my parents, I would say, compared to my older siblings. For you, how did this alone time impact you as a kid?
Amy Downs (01:08.971)
You know,
Amy Downs (01:13.803)
My best friend was my dog, Bobo. We had dog, Bobo, outside dog. And I talked to him all the time. And Bobo and Jesus, like literally, like those were the people I talked to. Those were my friends. That's who I talked to. So.
At times, you know, it felt very lonely.
Amy Downs (01:40.362)
Yeah.
Tim (01:44.206)
Do you think getting into your schooling, do you think the alone time and like you've said, times of loneliness, do you think that's what made you struggle in school potentially?
Amy Downs (01:56.171)
You know, looking back, I had ADHD. They didn't really diagnose. I mean, they would call kids hyperactive or something like that. And if I understand something and I'm really into it, I can be hyper -focused. But if it's over my head or I don't, then I very quickly just, my mind is somewhere else. So I'm sitting there, but I'm, you know.
dreaming, you know, so I really think I needed a different learning experience than just the traditional, you know, teacher lecturing and then you're supposed to read your book and I just, yeah, couldn't quite do that.
Tim (02:40.942)
In retrospect, like you talked about how, you know, looking back on things in retrospect, can you see any benefit that came from that alone time or do you just look at it from a different perspective at all?
Amy Downs (02:55.083)
You know, I really have not thought about that. I tend to think everything that has happened in my life to me has all led me to where I am now. So while I may be going through something and it may be a difficult season, there's always, you're always better. Like you, you know, you learn something from it, you grow from it. So,
I do think that that probably gave me some resilience. Now that you know, I think about it, I think it did.
Tim (03:35.566)
Yeah, so you've talked about, especially in your book, how you wanted to make a change. And so you do what I think is the best thing that anyone can do to break a certain way of thinking, acting, and ultimately just all around way of life is that you made a physical change to your environment and you moved to Oklahoma City where your sister Donna was living. Did it feel like
Amy Downs (04:00.843)
Mm -hmm. I did.
Tim (04:03.694)
your well -being and state of mind improve pretty quickly when you made that change.
Amy Downs (04:09.579)
Actually, no. It first went from, it got bad before it got better. So when I very first made the decision to move to Oklahoma City, that was more of a running away. So it really wasn't, I think I was looking for somebody to fix me, save me. I wasn't looking inside myself to help myself. I was looking for
someone external to come in and make everything better. You know, it was not until years later after the bombing that I realized that I'm responsible to move myself forward. I have to take responsibility for everything. And it wasn't until then that I really started changing from that victim mentality to really
putting it on me to like set the goals and take the steps and then make those changes. Now recently I made a move and it was exactly that what you said, you know, so a lot of times physically making a move I do think can usher in a new chapter in your life. If you're trying to do something intentionally and you're moving intentionally, usually yes, you know, but that moved Oklahoma City, no. So right after I moved,
I that next year I gained about 90 pounds in one year. So not good.
Tim (05:46.158)
Did it always feel like or did you always have the understanding that you were running away or was it years down the line when you looked back?
Amy Downs (05:54.443)
No, I knew I was running, I knew I was.
Tim (05:59.246)
So you made a look, you took a job at the Federal Employees Credit Union. What made you look for that job or look at that position? Was there anything else?
Amy Downs (06:13.451)
You know what, that is a real, that is a excellent question because I had just flunked out of college because I couldn't pass a remedial math class. So why I thought let's take those amazing math skills and go be a teller with a cash drawer, no clue, but that's what I did. And so barely, barely hold on.
Tim (06:31.854)
Was it, was it kind of just the first job that you found or what was the
Amy Downs (06:36.619)
I know, no, I actually, I think I went on, I went on another interview and the person, the guy creeped me out during the interview and they called to offer me a job and I lied and told him I had already gotten a job as a travel agent. Just like pulled that out of the air, you know, travel agent. So that was, that was the first opportunity and I passed on that. And then I took this one.
Tim (07:05.358)
I think to a large degree, people either revolve their life around their work or their work around their life. And it gets into this relationship between do you live to work or do you work to live? And you talk about in your book how you say it was embarrassing for me to admit FECU, the credit union was the warm heart of my life. I knew something was wrong with that.
It wasn't normal for me to consider Monday mornings as the highlight of my week. Why do you think your whole life revolved around your job?
Amy Downs (07:50.699)
I had purpose there. I had friendship there. I had community there.
Amy Downs (08:03.499)
in my personal life that was lacking. There were things lacking. And so when I got to go to work, I felt valued. I felt purpose, you know? So yeah, I looked forward to Monday morning.
Tim (08:24.941)
walk me through the entire day of April 19th 1995.
Amy Downs (08:32.555)
So the morning was just a beautiful spring morning.
That particular morning I was excited because I was getting ready to move into my first house. And so I was running around talking to all my friends about the house I was gonna close on the very next day. And I also love gardening and I remember talking to some of my coworkers about gardening and I was gonna bring one of them some daffodil bulbs from my mom's house and just regular stuff, you know, running around chatting.
But more talkative than normal because of this house. So I remember it was getting close to nine o 'clock and I had not done any work. Like I had not even been at my desk. And I remember thinking, I saw my boss walking down the hall and I remember thinking, okay, I should probably get to work. So I run go sit down at my desk and one of my coworkers who was seven months pregnant came and sat down beside me. And at this point I was thinking, great, what does she want?
because I needed to get my work done because I had been goofing off. But anyway, so I took my time and finally turned to say, okay, what do you need? And I don't know if the words ever came out or not because that's when the bomb went off. And it was just...
in one second, so many things, this loud roaring and the screaming and hearing what sounded like fireworks or I don't know if it was the fertilizer exploding or the building cracking, I don't know, just everything. Everything went black. I could hear a woman screaming right in my ear, Jesus help me, Jesus help me. And then realizing that was me, that was my voice. I was...
Amy Downs (10:28.491)
I didn't recognize the sound of my own voice. I was so terrified. And then everything got quiet and I couldn't move. I couldn't see. And I remember straining to open my eyes because I thought, are my eyes closed? You know, trying to open my eyes to see. And it didn't matter whether I opened them or closed them. It was just pitch black. And it was very hot and very hard to breathe. And I kept screaming, but nobody would answer.
It was probably about 45 minutes when I heard the sound of men's voices and they were looking for the daycare babies. And I started screaming and one of them said, I hear you child, how old are you? And remember being scared to say I was 28 because I wasn't a child, they might not come get me. So I said, I'm sorry, I'm 28.
And they said, that's okay. And so they started yelling, we have a live one, we have a live one, we need backup, we need help. And they said they had to follow the sound of my voice because they couldn't see me.
So I remember this one man said, you know, keep talking to us, keep talking to us, you know? And I said, ask them what happened. And they said it had been a bomb. But I didn't know back then, I didn't know what a car bomb was or, you know, I thought if there's a bomb, like we're at war. Cause my dad was in World War II. And I remember, you know, all the time life books, you know, about the airplanes dropping bombs. So I'm asking if like,
the area of the city where my sister lives, like is that okay? And they were like, no, this is only this building. About the time they found me, and I found out later I was buried in about 10 feet of rubble. I was still in my desk chair upside down, but my right hand was sticking out of the side of the rubble pile and they came across my hand. And...
Amy Downs (12:31.595)
I remember saying, I think you brushed my hand. And they said, what color shirt do you have on? And I couldn't remember. And they were like, think, what color shirt do you have on? I said, green? And as soon as I said green, then I felt them grab my hand. And I thought, one, two, three, they were gonna pull me up and out. But about that time, I heard a man yelling, lots of people yelling actually, there's another bomb, there's another bomb, get out now, let's go. And I could feel.
the rubble shaking around me as people were running to get out of the building. And I just started telling my rescuers over and over again to tell my family I loved them because I knew that this was it, you know? And I remember after they left thinking, I'm 28 years old, I'm getting ready to die and I've never lived. You know, just the realization that I had really
squandered the life that I had been given. I really had so much regret about just not fully living.
And just, you know, making all kinds of promises, you know, to God, give me out, like I'll, I'll, you know, I'll do anything. So technically I should be in a developing country donating my time right now, probably. I don't know. I was promising everything, get me out, you know, because I just wanted a second chance. And this whole ordeal, that was about 45 minutes while I was waiting for this bomb to go off.
And during that time, I finally, I mean, there's nothing I could do. I just, there's nothing I could do. I love the quote by Epictetus, an ancient Greek philosopher. We get that quote that it's not so much what happens to you, but how you choose to respond to it. It's so popular and I couldn't do anything except I had my mind, you know, and that's all I could do. So I started singing.
Amy Downs (14:41.035)
praise and worship song. And as soon as I got my eyes off of me and my situation and was singing this praise song, I felt peace and I was okay with what was getting ready to happen next. But then of course there was another bomb, they came back and they started working to get me out and it took them a total of about six and a half hours to actually get me free.
Tim (15:09.742)
Are you conscious throughout the entire thing?
Amy Downs (15:12.907)
I was. And at one point, I was getting really concerned they weren't going to get me out. Because I kept saying, hey, are you guys going to be able to get me out? And the guy would always answer, Amy, we're going to do our best. We're doing our best. Which really scared me because I'm lying. There was no like, yeah, sure, no problem. We're getting you out. It was, we're doing our best. So, and this was probably the moment when I realized I had leadership.
capabilities because I started trying to micromanage them and I told them because I heard an emergency physician that was there that kept talking to them about amputating my leg. So I started saying, hey, if you guys need to chop something off to get me out, you need to chop it off. You know, I'm trying to tell them what to do. Give me out, you know, but they kept saying, just give us 20 more minutes. Give us 20 more minutes because the building was becoming very unstable. The wind had picked up, the weather was changing and
the area where I was located, they later had to implode the building to get the remaining bodies out that were located there because it wasn't safe. So they were wanting to have them amputate my legs so everybody could get out safely. I'm very, very grateful to these men for risking their lives to get me out and get me out, being able to get me out in one piece, you know?
Tim (16:34.254)
to talk about your weight loss journey further down in our conversation in more detail, but do you remember how much you weighed at the time on that day?
Amy Downs (16:44.491)
Yeah, 300, well, I quit, the last time I weighed, it was 355 pounds. So, somewhere around that.
Tim (16:50.83)
Okay. Yeah, the reason why I asked is because you said something interesting in your book. You said that some days it would feel like the only reason why you survived is because your fat saved you. Do you think there's some actual truth to that?
Amy Downs (17:07.883)
Yeah, the surgeon at the hospital, the surgeon actually told me, he said, this is probably one of the few times you'll ever have a doctor tell you that your weight actually worked in your favor. So, yeah.
Tim (17:21.646)
Wow. That's an, that's incredible to hear. So yeah, I mean, like you said, you were alone, buried alive for six hours. And we talked about earlier how your childhood, there was a lot of alone time and that alone time was, you could consider it loneliness for these six hours. How did that time bring clarity to your life?
Amy Downs (17:54.315)
if you've ever had a near -death experience.
Amy Downs (18:01.963)
Well, I think most of us have had this experience. You've been sick, right? Really sick, like the flu or something or COVID or whatever, and you just feel so bad. And you're just like, man, as soon as I feel better, I wanna do this, I wanna do that. Like, you know, you just can't wait to feel better because you wanna like fill in the blank. There's things you wanna do. So the near death experience is like that times a million because you're like, if I could just live again, all of a sudden I'm so clear.
that there's things I wanna do. And that's the only way to explain it. So now it's not like I thought, well, when I get out, you know, I'm going to do a triathlon and I'm going to do, you know, it wouldn't exactly like that. I just knew that like relationships were important. My faith was important. Serving other people, like doing something that counts with your life. Like the...
I suddenly knew those things were important and it wasn't just a job or a paycheck or the things that you have or how much money you make or so much more. There's so much more to life.
Tim (19:16.654)
Yeah, those things that don't matter as much or your fears get stripped away. And you have this great quote from your book that I think sums that up perfectly. The veil of my willful blindness was stripped by those piercing insights. I saw truth more vividly in that pitch darkness. And you also say that you realize that worst of all, you abused yourself. In what ways did it feel like you were
abusing yourself up until that day.
Amy Downs (19:50.635)
the self -talk in my head, you know?
I think our greatest enemy is ourselves sometimes, you know. The things we tell ourselves we would never tell another person. And I would just focus on how stupid I am or lazy or fat or just every flaw and fault and that kid in school that can't make a decent grade, can't pay attention, doesn't follow directions, all that, just very hard on myself.
Tim (20:23.822)
What injuries did you sustain?
Amy Downs (20:27.243)
The biggest injury was my right leg had been basically split open. My bone was intact, but the leg was completely open from the knee down.
Tim (20:41.358)
So you did you need any surgeries or anything?
Amy Downs (20:44.043)
They had to debride it. So they took me to debride the glass and all the stuff from it. And they weren't positive if I'd had a head injury or not. They didn't know, so they didn't want to give me anesthesia. So they asked me what radio station I liked. They're going to turn up the radio instead of anesthesia. And I remember thinking, are you going to give me like a bullet to bite and whiskey or something? Like, what? What radio station?
So anyway, yeah.
Tim (21:16.334)
You've talked about how you've had, or you had a lot of shame for surviving. What was the process like working through that shame?
Amy Downs (21:30.699)
So I actually recently did some work on this that I wished I would have done a long time ago. So they told me right after the bombing, they recommended that I do this thing called ERM. It's eye rapid movement, some kind of thing that you do. And it just sounded like a bunch of hooey, honestly, because you're like, you're going to do your eyes back and forth and that's going to magically rewire your brain. Like it just sounded stupid.
So a friend of mine who was a police officer and had trauma in her life later went back to school, became a counselor and she had it done on herself and she convinced me like, you need to do this thing. So I finally decided to do it last fall. And one of the things that they talk about, they take you back to that moment and they ask you, what are you feeling? What are you feeling right now? And the word that kept coming up for me,
It wasn't shame, but it was guilt. Kind of similar, I guess, but a lot of guilt.
And then going back, what would you tell yourself? If you could go back and speak to yourself then what would you say? Why do you feel this way? That process, even though it sounds like a bunch of hooey, and I didn't do the light, I did the thing where you hold something in either hand and it pulses, sounds like a bunch of hooey. And even after I did it, I remember thinking, I don't know if this really did anything. My PTSD symptoms, there's no denying it's decreased dramatically.
And it has also helped with those feelings of shame and those feelings of guilt. So, yeah, it's been a long journey and I highly recommend counseling. But yeah, the survivor guilt and Robin sitting next to me and I'm ignoring her. What if I had talked to her sooner? Maybe she'd have gone down the hall. Like just all the things that you feel guilty about. I survived, my best friend didn't.
Amy Downs (23:37.323)
to babies at home, like why me? Why did I make it and they didn't and all that kind of stuff. But going to counseling helped a lot and I'm obviously still working on some of those things.
Tim (23:54.414)
How did gardening play a role in your healing process?
Amy Downs (23:58.827)
It was huge. So one, I realized looking back.
So.
Amy Downs (24:15.435)
I really do believe that part of hope is setting a goal and having action steps to get to it. It gives us something. It does. We saw that during COVID when we all felt helpless and we couldn't do things. Like all of a sudden we felt hopeless. But the minute that you can like go, I'm going to do this thing. And then you start taking the steps toward it. Like it just gives you this hope. So I was very depressed, obviously after coming home from the hospital.
And I remember hearing people say, you need to get back to your hobbies as soon as possible. You need to get back to it. And I didn't want to. I really didn't want to. I just wanted to never go outside again. Like I was just depressed. But I believed somewhere I knew in my head that they were right. So I made a goal to just make myself like I didn't want to like make myself do some gardening.
And so my mom was here. So I said, I asked her if she would take me to the nursery. I mean, I was still in a wheelchair and you know, she actually did the planting, but like I picked something out, like I, you know, and it did, it lifted my spirits a little bit. So, and then at night when I couldn't sleep, I would read gardening books. So it gave me sort of a diversion of my attention to like quit thinking about this bad stuff and like,
not really denial, but like a healthy, like, let's don't think about that right now, let's think about gardening. So I kind of threw myself into that and it gave me something that I could control and I could do. Cause I couldn't control a lot of other things that were going on, you know, the grief and the depression and the PTSD, I couldn't really control those, but I could control buying a plant and planting it, you know.
Tim (26:06.478)
Yeah, I've talked about this with a lot of people and I've experienced it as well in my own life. There's something really healing just about creating something outside yourself and actually seeing something come to life. And it can be something just as basic as journaling or drawing something or like in your case, planting flowers and seeing them grow.
Amy Downs (26:28.139)
Yes. And then I did plant. So I did actually create a garden, like a memory garden, a remembrance garden, and I planted things in honor of my coworkers. So that also was very healing to have something that was tangible that I was doing to honor them.
Tim (26:49.71)
How long after everything happened, did you go back and start working at the credit union again?
Amy Downs (26:55.595)
Immediately, I am in the hospital. So, one of the girls that worked for another credit union in Oklahoma City, we were on the same operating system with our credit card payments that we posted. And she, I either called her or she called me. And I laugh about this now because nowadays this would be considered a data breach and this would be crazy. But I think there's a statute of limitations. So we're not, you know, I'm good now.
No, but so I literally called the post office, asked if they would give all of the visa payments to my friend that worked at this other credit union. I gave her my login credentials so that she could go in and post the visa payments for me. And that like immediately it was what do we need to do? Because we lost 18 of our 33 employees. And then you had several in the hospital that never even came back to work. Like it was bad. How do you survive? Like you just do what you got to do.
You know, so I threw myself into work at that point to try to make sure that the credit union survived, try to make sure that we were, could come back and come back strong.
Tim (28:04.142)
How important was Lynette Leonard to getting everything back and moving forward?
Amy Downs (28:09.355)
She is the most, has been the most important influential person in my life. So she was the CEO that came on board about a year after the bombing. So we had gone through the initial, you know, bringing ourselves back, but we had a lot to work. I mean, there was a lot down the road that we had to do and she believed in me. She believed in me. She
my opinion about things, she... it was just amazing. And one of the things that really changed my life was her question about if you had a magic wand, what would you do? And then, okay, given that picture that you just described, why is that important? And given your current situation limitations, make this list of the smallest things you can do to work toward that. And...
later when i read the book hope rising and their description of hope is that it's the belief that your future can be better and brighter than your past and that you play a role in making that happen i'm like she gave me hope she taught me how to have hope which is what are you really getting clear getting clear about what you want really clear because not
Everybody's going to have, you're not always going to have this and you don't want to have like this, you know, death staring you in the face moment to get clarity and you'll have to have that. But you do need to have a practice, a real practice of frequently getting clear about what you want. Cause otherwise you'll find yourself doing things everybody else wants or getting sidetracked and the book, the regrets of the dying.
Bronnie Weier was a hospice nurse and she did research on her dying patients. The number one regret of the dying was not living a life true to themselves. So if you don't pay attention to your life, if you don't live it intentionally, you may wind up with that regret of not living a life true to yourself. And I faced that regret. I don't ever want to face it again. And I don't want anybody else to. So I spend a lot of my time speaking to try to tell people it really didn't have to be that hard. It's so simple.
Amy Downs (30:26.859)
If you had a magic wand, what do you want most? And then back into the smallest steps that you can start taking and you take small steps consistently over time and it does lead to big transformation. I know I've seen it in my life.
Tim (30:42.638)
Yeah, I feel like when people get broken down or they go through some challenging thing, obviously in the moment it feels terrible. But that breaking down process, I feel is like almost in a way getting rid of your mask and what comes through afterwards is your true self and your true intentions.
Amy Downs (30:50.155)
Mm -hmm.
Amy Downs (31:02.059)
Yeah, it's a refinement, right? You're refined, you know? It burns away all the stuff and absolutely, yeah.
Tim (31:19.022)
You could have very easily been of the mindset after this saying, you know what? I can't go back to work there. That would just be too hard. Or like you, we talked about earlier, you could have been in the mindset of, you know what? I should leave Oklahoma city. This isn't the place for me. But you did the exact opposite and you stayed there. How did going back to the credit union and progressing professionally, not just
play and role in you creating a better life for yourself, but also from the aspect of also being a part of your healing process.
Amy Downs (31:55.087)
Yeah.
Well, I remember early on, like maybe right when I came home from the hospital, I remember there was a day, cause I was on the phone with one of my coworkers who survived as well. And we had this moment where we were like, you know, there's probably going to be some big work comp payment. And like, we probably don't have to go back to work. And what do you want to do? And I was like, I want to go, I want to learn how to be a landscape architect. And she's like, I want to go be a nurse. And we had this conversation about how
We were probably going to get all this money. We weren't going to have to work again. Well, that didn't happen. And also then there was this pull and tug of this credit union has to survive because the memories of these people I love will disappear if this credit union disappears, which isn't true, but that's how it felt. Like that, it was so that personal later. So it was hard. It was hard to go back. And there were some really hard times. And I don't, some people left.
because they couldn't and I don't blame them. I mean, it was not easy. Looking back, I do think it was actually huge in my healing, you know, to work through all of that, to stay.
Tim (33:10.542)
How did going back to school play a role in making sure you continued that progress?
Amy Downs (33:19.083)
going back to school and getting my degree, you know, think of the hardest thing in your life that you're just like, I couldn't, I don't think I could ever do that. And then you do it. it's mind blowing. Cause you're just like, I did the thing. Like I did the thing I never thought I could do. I did the thing. And so then all of a sudden it just unlocks like, well, what else can I do? Like I did, like I did it. Like if I did that, what else can I do?
And so then that just, the momentum was, it was on. It was on and it's not lit up since, cause it's just like, okay, well, what are we doing next? It's like, I don't cross, I get close to crossing the finish line on one thing and I'm like, I'm already like, okay, so where are we going next? Like what's the next one, you know? So.
Tim (34:07.15)
So you start to progress professionally. You do incredible in school as well. And like you said, it's like, all right, what's next on my list and how we talked earlier, you felt shame for being the one who survived instead of your coworkers and getting into your weight loss. Now you also felt shame over your physical appearance at the time.
How young were you when you first felt like you weren't in control of yourself physically?
Amy Downs (34:47.787)
22.
Yep, 22.
Tim (34:53.166)
Yeah, I believe in life what motivates us more isn't necessarily the person that we want to be, but it's who we don't want to be or who we don't want to be anymore. Especially from the standpoint of physical appearance, it's not just necessarily wanting to be the fit person or the one who's in very good health, but it's more so the just the tired
and feeling an exhaustion of being the person that you don't want to be anymore? Do you feel like that's accurate for how you felt?
Amy Downs (35:31.979)
It is, and I think the tipping point for me was having a son. And I was now starting to see how it wasn't just me that I was affecting anymore, I was now affecting my child. So that was an extra like, you have to do something.
Tim (35:50.382)
Tucking away the truth created an extreme dissociation from my body. When I walked near bay windows next to buildings, I'd see the giant reflection of my body and think that's not me. And I think that's a really powerful point where
what you see on the surface doesn't line up with how you think and how you feel, especially when you started to progress professionally, there's just becomes this detachment between your mind and your body. And you obviously felt that and saw that and knew you needed to make a change. What did the decision process look like for getting the gastric sleeve surgery?
Amy Downs (36:37.643)
So what happened was I had this momentum going because I was learning that like, it's kind of like strategic planning that you do at your job, but you're doing it with your life. So the thing was it's a project, it's a work project, right? So take the shame out of it. Take all the, like it's a used logic and reason to solve your problem. So I literally remember thinking, I am not gonna approach this from the whole usual shame -based thing.
It's a problem and given my current situation and my current limitations, I like brownies. I have joined Weight Watchers a million times. It hasn't helped me yet. What are the smallest steps that I can take to work through this problem? And my first step was going to the internet and I don't know if it was Google back then or what. We're going to the internet to figure out what options are out there. What else is out there? Quit doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. So that's when I learned about this procedure.
went, found a surgeon to talk about it. The surgeon really wanted to do the full bypass, the gastric bypass. That was the gold standard for what he called heavy weights and the sleeve was for light weights. Rude. So anyway, so I was a heavyweight. So he told me the only way he would do that is if I agreed to change my life, become very active, exercise and all the things, which of course I promised. Yes, I will do all the things. And so
He did the sleep on me. And he told me though, this is only good for about 75 pounds. And if you do not change your life, you will gain it back. And about a year later, weight started creeping back on. And of course, because I hadn't exercised yet. Don't tell him though. He would ask me when I would come for my checkups, if I was exercising and I would always tell him I'm walking. Cause you know, I had to walk across the parking lot, walk up to the, anyway. So I thought, okay, I've got to do, I actually have to exercise.
So that's what led me to like, okay, I'm gonna go to the gym and start doing something and then getting a bicycle and then, you know, making myself do that.
Tim (38:48.974)
I have a lot of respect for that outlook on how you dealt with your situation because I feel like it would be very easy for your ego and your pride to get into the way to a certain extent, especially from the standpoint after the fact, once you get the surgery and being honest with everyone, how important was being honest with people and telling them that this is what you did to help your weight loss, especially from the standpoint of
how you've talked about how you dealt with a lot of shame throughout your life and being honest and talking about this very transparently, how did that help get rid of that shame?
Amy Downs (39:33.067)
I think when we speak things out, we shine a light on it and there's less shame. It's when you keep things in the secret. I think that's worse, you know, because I don't know. But one of the things that impacted my life to have this procedure was my boss, my mentor, the one I admired so much, revealed to me that 20 years prior, she had had a weight loss surgery.
Well, what that did was it made it, it was like, wow, here's this person I look up to. Here's this person that I think is very successful. And she says, if you have something keeping you from living your life, do whatever it needs, do whatever you need to do to set yourself free. And it made it okay. So I thought early on, I thought, am I going to tell people? Cause part of me, you know, your ego part of me is like, maybe I don't want to tell people cause they're going to judge me. They're going to say, you didn't do it the right way. You didn't do the blah, blah.
And I thought, you know what, there may be a person like me that Lynette, when she made it okay for me, maybe I'm making it okay for somebody else. So, and that actually has happened. I have had several people who have circled back to me in my life that have taken control and have done a procedure to change their life. And it, that was part that it made it okay because they knew somebody that took the shame out of it that said, yes, I did that.
Tim (41:02.606)
Yeah, something that you also talked about and very transparent about was how surgery was just the first step in the process. What really needed to be changed and what can be more challenging is changing your overall way of life. Talk to me about getting into cycling.
Amy Downs (41:22.507)
So I love riding my bike and I'm a, this is the part I'm gonna get emotional on because I don't know if you can see this, but I just had surgery. So I had, actually this is likely trauma from falling three floors. I had a cervical fusion three weeks ago and I have to be off my bicycle for like months, months. So, my gosh, I can ride my trainer.
Tim (41:48.526)
Can you ride a stationary bike? Okay.
Amy Downs (41:51.691)
So I have a bicycle that is on a trainer that simulates like you're riding it outside. So I can do that. So it's just not nearly as fun, but that's okay. So my sister, my sisters were riding bicycles. My dad rode a bicycle and I used to make fun of them, you know, with their goofy, look like a diaper in their shorts, you know, spandex cycling shorts. But my boss, Lynette, she had a bicycle, like kind of a cruiser type and
She said she wanted to know if I wanted to ride a bike with her because her husband had had a surgery and couldn't ride with her. And I thought, that kind of sounds like fun. So I did. And my legs felt like jello. Like I think we rode, I don't know, not even 15 minutes, maybe 10. I remember my legs were all wobbly, jello, but it was so fun. It felt like being a kid again. It felt like freedom. It felt amazing. And I was right then and there, I was like, I want a bike. I want a bike. I want to do this thing.
And so before long I was riding with my sister. We were riding around the lake, then to the next town. And then I found out that they have a bike ride across the state of Oklahoma. So then my sister and I signed up to do the bike across Oklahoma, which takes a week. It's about 500 miles. And it just, yeah, I just fell in love with it. Fell in love with it. I loved, there's an event called Hotter Than Hell, which is in Texas every year. Thousands of riders come for that. I'm gonna miss it this year. Anyway.
I just can't even tell you. It's amazing. And again, when you push your body to do something you never thought it could do, wow. I mean, yes, there's suffering involved and I don't know why I like the suffering, but I do and it just, I don't know. It's awesome.
Tim (43:40.238)
I couldn't agree with you more, especially when it comes to something very physically exerting. And that's usually endurance activities like running or riding a bike or some type of cardiovascular based activity. It just breaks down those internal walls of yourself where you can't fake anything and that's your true self. And you talk about in your book,
Amy Downs (43:49.227)
Hmm? Hmm?
Amy Downs (44:03.691)
No. Yes. Yes.
Tim (44:10.542)
this great analogy, I bike to burn the world around you was burned away. Your past memories are cinders, your future goals are smoke. All that exists is the instantly vanishing and reappearing present. And I've definitely personally experienced that where your mind can wander throughout the day and you're stressed out about so many different things. But when you're pushing your body to the limit,
Amy Downs (44:25.515)
Yes.
Tim (44:40.462)
and it hurts, it's impossible to think about anything else except for, all right, I need to get through this physically demanding activity.
Amy Downs (44:50.635)
Yes, so my son just recently ran his first 5k with me. I'd been wanting him to do it forever. He ran his first 5k. So I experienced all over again in real time what it's like because he's telling me this is mile one. Mom, can we just walk some? I think we need to walk some. Like, my shin hurts. My knee hurts. I need to go to the bathroom. The bathroom. Why didn't you go to the bathroom before we started running? I'm just like, my gosh. And I'm like, Austin, think about, so I'm trying to tell him how to think in his mind.
You know, because you have to focus on not just focusing on the pain, you have to focus on other things. You have to start thinking about other things. Mile two, the sun is coming up. We turn on this road and all of a sudden my son's like, that's the most beautiful sunrise. The sunrise is so beautiful. And so I watched in real time as his, all this is happening and because all of a sudden everything else is burned away except what you're experiencing in real time right now.
and you just feel alive. You can't worry. When I'm riding my bike across Oklahoma, you're worried about things like where's the next water stop? Am I going fast? Like you're present. You're not worrying about your finances or what somebody said to you last week or like all that's gone. And you're just very, just alive and in the moment.
Tim (46:14.894)
Yeah. And I think the more that you do it, obviously when you first started, it can be incredibly uncomfortable and throughout the course of your life, it'll always be uncomfortable. But I think the more that you do it, when you feel that pain, you have a deeper understanding of this is a good thing. This is going to take me to a place that is going to be beneficial for me. And we've also talked about earlier how
Amy Downs (46:33.067)
You
Amy Downs (46:38.219)
Yes.
Tim (46:42.254)
your life revolved around your job because that's where you found your sense of purpose and your sense of community. How did cycling help expand that environment?
Amy Downs (46:55.467)
It wasn't about work. So for the first time, I had a life outside the office. Like I had community that was not work related. And you were, you'd made a comment about like, you know, when everything is burned away and you're like, that's your real, like you can't hide any, you can't mask it. This is who I am. What I found was my running buddies or cycling buddies, you become friends quick, like real quick.
Because when you're running together and you're on miles seven or 10 or whatever, like you're real. This is real. Like, and so it just opened up new friendships and people, very diverse friends, a lot of diverse friends, which I think is always good to hear other points of view and you know, how other people think about things. and then I also found
amazing husband through cycling. So there's that.
Tim (47:56.11)
Yeah, it's really interesting. Last week I had on a guest named Nate Boyer. He's an ex veteran, ex NFL player. And a lot of the work that he does now is with veterans and athletes who once they've retired and once they've put away their uniform, how do you reacclimate to life? Because you've known life in such a certain way and how do you
Amy Downs (48:16.491)
you
Tim (48:21.326)
become this evolved person. And one of the things that he does with his program, it's called the MVP merging vets and players. They work out together. They do something very physically demanding. And then after that, it's almost like a sit down session. And the reasoning behind that is like you were just talking about. Once you do something very physically demanding,
those walls get broken down and it becomes much easier to talk and connect with people. And I think just anything physically demanding, lends itself to that. And you've also done one of the most physically demanding things that any person can do. Talk to me about becoming an iron man.
Amy Downs (49:13.483)
Woo! That was something. You know when they ask you that question like, hey, what's the thing you're most proud of? Well, as a female and a mom, you always feel a certain amount of pressure that you're supposed to say the birth of your child. Like you're supposed to say, I'm most proud of my son. But the truth is I am most proud of that. Aren't I man? I really am. Because it was hard. I had to train for over a year. There were time cuts all along the way. I knew I was gonna be back in the pack.
I didn't know I was gonna be last. Last! Like I barely, barely made it.
But I made it and Mike rightly himself called me an Iron Man. So, and I have the tattoo to prove it. So, it was amazing. It was an amazing experience.
Tim (50:02.414)
What was the training process like leading up to that?
Amy Downs (50:06.635)
Well, I already had a base, I already had a running base, I already had a cycling base. The swimming, I was not so good with that, so started pretty fresh with the swimming. So I started about, I think August, and it was the following November when I went to Phoenix to do, I mean, in Tempe, Arizona. 2017, 2017. So the process,
Tim (50:29.902)
And what year was this?
Amy Downs (50:37.195)
was crazy. So you had to swim, run, bike all the time. And sometimes you were doing them in conjunction, you know, so that way you could get used to doing one and then the other one. And did a lot of half Ironmans to train. So I did a lot of half Ironmans. And then, I mean, getting up early, early, early, early. My husband would drive behind me with his lights on, cause he wanted to make sure I was safe. And I would run around the lake.
He got a kayak so that he could kayak around the lake with me to keep me safe, keep a boat from hitting me. So yeah, it was nuts. And he ran with me. So he would ride his bike with me and sometimes he would run with me too. So he did a full marathon the year I was training because I had to do a marathon. So he did one too.
Tim (51:29.262)
I think what I love most about you becoming an Ironman, and it's something that you spoke about earlier with your gastric sleeve surgery, is how people could think, you cheated or you took the easy way out and you have this incredible physical achievement now of being an Ironman where you've pretty much proven that that surgery was just the first step in the process. That doesn't define me. Look at what I've done with my entire life now.
Amy Downs (51:56.587)
That's exactly right, yeah.
Tim (51:58.926)
There's this great quote that I think you are the living embodiment of. And that quote is, sometimes when you're in a dark place, you think you've been buried, but you've actually been planted.
Amy Downs (52:15.115)
wow, yeah, wow. Yeah, no, that makes sense, especially being a gardener. Before I got on this call, I was outside watering my plants and I kept looking at my watch going, okay, don't forget, don't forget. I knew I had to clean up. But I was watering some of them because I actually planted some seeds. It's a little late in the season, but right now they're buried. They're in the dirt.
Tim (52:16.686)
What does that quote mean for you?
Amy Downs (52:44.107)
They're just a seed laying there, but I know they're gonna sprout in just a few days, because the temperature's right, I'm watering them like they're gonna sprout, and then they're gonna bloom. So yeah, sometimes you are in a dark place, and it might be preparing you for something else, yeah.
Tim (53:03.086)
Do you still have that plot of land on New Hope Lane in Oklahoma?
Amy Downs (53:08.011)
Do that's where I'm at right here actually moved to medicine park. It's about an hour south of Oklahoma City and it is on a street called new hope which is amazing because That I just love the word hope and it turned out Where we move to is a on new hope
Tim (53:27.31)
One last point to touch on. I love how you bring in sports into your overall life and transformation, especially with Oklahoma City Thunder. And I think it's so fascinating how you really grew at the city. Like as the city transformed, you also transformed as a person. And I feel like sports is so deeply ingrained in our culture. I mean, I'm a Boston sports fan. I live in the Northeast. So
being a Boston sports fan, I feel like it just a certain type of mindset about winning and achieving your goals gets deeply ingrained. So that's fantastic to see and so cool how you really grew with the city as well.
Amy Downs (54:12.363)
Yeah, our city really has a really cool transformation story. So yeah.
Tim (54:18.766)
Amy, where can people go to find you and your book and connect with you if you want?
Amy Downs (54:24.107)
So I've got a website, it's my name, dot org, amydowns dot org. And my book's on Amazon. It's Hope is a Verb by me, Amy Downs.
Tim (54:35.918)
Amy, I really appreciate you for coming on the show.
Amy Downs (54:38.699)
You bet, it was an honor to be here and talk with you.
Tim (54:42.19)
Great.
