The Outworker
The relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect. These conversations will hopefully allow you to develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#019 - Chris Rinaldi - The Relationship With Alcohol, Job, & Body
Chris Rinaldi and I explore the interconnected aspects of personal growth in this conversation. We discuss our relationship with alcohol, mindful career choices, and the importance of aligning your environment with core values. The conversation weaves through themes of self-awareness, boundary-setting, and finding balance within obsession. Additionally, we touch on how creative pursuits can compliment physical activities as a key to further personal development and fulfillment. Chris and I also discuss the transformative power of self-reflection and deep conversations in navigating life's complexities and finding your authentic path.
Timestamps:
00:00 The Relationship With Self
02:49 Exploring the Relationship with Alcohol
28:05 Building a Culture that Allows Individuals to Thrive
52:52 Investing in Yourself
56:23 We Are All Athletes
01:04:46 Finding a Game to Play
01:15:20 You Don't Need a Timeline
01:23:31 Building a Strong Relationship with Your Body
01:30:17 Learning Balance
Thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate your time and support. Let me know what you thought of the episode and what you would like to see in the future. Any feedback would be awesome. Don't forget to subscribe for more exciting content on YouTube, and leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever platform you are listening on.
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What’s up Outworkers. Chris Rinaldi and I explore the interconnected aspects of personal growth in this conversation. We discuss our relationship with alcohol, mindful career choices, and the importance of aligning your environment with core values. The conversation weaves through themes of self-awareness, boundary-setting, and finding balance within obsession. Additionally, we touch on how creative pursuits can compliment physical activities as a key to further personal development and fulfillment. Chris and I also discuss the transformative power of self-reflection and deep conversations in navigating life's complexities and finding your authentic path.
Tim (00:02.187)
Chris, welcome to The Outworker.
Chris Rinaldi (00:04.83)
And thanks for having me. Appreciate
Tim (00:08.019)
I know we've talked extensively in the past about how a big aspect of the show is understanding the relationship with yourself and how you can neglect the relationship with yourself where it's the most important relationship to develop, but it's also the easiest to neglect, especially from the standpoint because we really never think in those terms. And I know
three big things that we're going to be talking about today that go into that relationship with yourself or, you know, a person's relationship with alcohol, their career, and also just talking about our physical body and our relationship with our body and how that plays into everything as well. And this is really cool because this is the first podcast I've done with somebody else where it's not necessarily me just interviewing them about their
life and asking them very pointed specific questions, but it's kind of just like a free, free going back and forth where I'll also be adding more info about my life, which I really haven't had the opportunity to do when talking with other people and other guests, which I think is great. So, I mean, I'll push it over to you now, just like talking about alcohol, because I know for both of us, that's a really
interesting topic and I know there's a lot of people out there who are also interested in this topic of alcohol and their relationship with it and how it plays within their environment as well. So I'll you take it from here and just understanding your relationship with alcohol over the span of your life.
Chris Rinaldi (01:53.912)
Yeah, absolutely. I think like we said before we got on the podcast, right? Like I think it's something that people don't talk about enough. I think it's really cool that you're like, obviously starting the conversation, but like, you know, having it in a purposeful way. So I appreciate that. But I figured it would make sense. I mean, A, because I think you'll get a kick out of it, but also B, because I think it's like really relevant to why we're having this conversation.
with like how I started drinking. And like I know for a lot of kids that's, you know, high school, which is weird for me to say, right? Like for a lot of kids, they start drinking in high school, right? Which, you know, is not legal, but right. Like I.
Tim (02:38.209)
Yeah, when I was thinking about this conversation, like leading up to this, because obviously like you were saying, like when you're in high school, like you think like, okay, like this is kind of what you do. But like now as, you know, I'm 25 and when I'm thinking back, like, oh my God, like there's some kids who start drinking when they're like a sophomore in high school and like you're 16 years old. I'm like, that is absolutely wild.
Chris Rinaldi (02:58.03)
Yeah,
Chris Rinaldi (03:03.212)
Yeah, no, it is crazy. And like, it's crazier to think about because like my first time drinking was literally in my own house. I had to ask my parents, was like, can I grab I think it was a keystone light out of the garage. I don't know why we had keystone light. But right, like, I was a senior, like senior fall, I was definitely one of the last ones.
in my group to drink, right? Because everyone else had already started or, you know, was a pro at that point. And I literally just had one keystone light in my living room watching TV with my parents. I was like, this is pretty terrible. I'm not gonna lie, right? Like, I don't know why people drink this. then, yeah, I mean, from there, it really just became more of like, all right,
If my friends are going to do something social, there was always alcohol involved, right? I mean, even to this day, right? Like that seems to be the case. You know, you mentioned you're 25, I'm 26, I'll be 27 here in a couple months. Like it seems to be something that like people don't, whether it's grow out of is the right word. I don't know. But yeah, it seems to be a trend. I'll say
So yeah, that's even why I'll just say, I definitely appreciate it that you're willing to talk about it and that you're open with
Tim (04:33.217)
I mean, it's all relatively speaking because in the grand scheme of things, it's not like you were starting late by having it by starting drinking in, you know, your senior year of high school. But if we're just talking within that short time frame, why do you think the case was that you started that late? Do you think it was your parents or something else?
Chris Rinaldi (04:39.734)
Of course. Yeah.
Chris Rinaldi (04:55.538)
think it's a good question. mean, for me, it was like, I never really felt the need or urge. like, I mean, you talked about it when you had my brother on, right? Like you wonder how many athletes would have gotten to different points if our Paul just was never in the equation. And I think about that all the time, not just with me, but like guys I played with and against, right.
Because it is, it's such a major part of college and the environment that people put themselves into knowing that, yeah, it's going to be a big factor, right? But yeah, mean, looking back, honestly, just it was more of a social thing, right? Like all my friends at the time, a lot of them I'm still friends with to this day. That was kind of just what was done.
in high school, Like Friday night, maybe Saturday night. You know, that was what was going on. I don't know if it was the same for you, but yeah, I'd be curious to hear.
Tim (06:03.091)
Yeah, I for me, I don't think I had my first sip of alcohol until it was a graduation party for high school. And I think I had like a couple of sips. It wasn't even like a full beer or full drink. And it was kind of the same. Like at that point in my life, I was kind of just like, you know, I don't need this or I don't have the urge for it. And I think also from my standpoint,
being in high school.
Tim (06:36.895)
I really never even talked about drinking with my parents because both my parents really were never big drinkers. So I was never around it as a kid. So it wasn't, it was just never on my mind. And I was also at the standpoint, I've talked about this on previous episodes. I have three older siblings who are much older than me. from the time that I was in sixth grade into
you know, going into high school, was the only one in my house. So it's not like I was around other kids within my house, right? I didn't have siblings who were my age. So it wasn't like, you know, like when they started drinking, you know, I was a very young kid. So obviously I wasn't going to be drinking with them. And I think that kind of just, that same path continued through high school. And like I said, you know, I think my parents,
Chris Rinaldi (07:24.814)
course.
Tim (07:34.165)
I mean, I definitely would have been allowed to go to parties, but I also knew that, you know, if I was going to be drinking or drinking regularly, I was like, that's just not going to go with my parents.
Chris Rinaldi (07:43.758)
Oh yeah, absolutely. And that's same for me, right? Like it wasn't like, all right, like Chris, go have fun, go do your thing. Like it was, all right, right. Like you could go, but you know, 10, 10, 30, 11, like I'm picking you up and like I expect you to be in a state where, you know, everything's still okay.
Tim (08:04.425)
Yeah. So I mean, the only party that I went to in high school was that first graduation party and then another like smaller graduation party after that. And I remember I was like, I was like, man, like I kind of regret like not going to parties throughout high school. But then I was also like, I really didn't miss out on much because I knew I was
my parents are not going to be, mean, I guess I can't say 100 % like not going to be okay with me drinking because I never asked them. But I feel like at that point in my life, I was like, I was like, I don't even want to talk about it because I feel like they would just be like, absolutely not. But I think there's like, there was real benefit to that. So it was always interesting, you know, and getting into the college aspect things now. was always curious to like, know
Chris Rinaldi (08:33.25)
Yeah.
Chris Rinaldi (08:40.344)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tim (08:55.645)
leading up into college before I actually got there because I always knew I was like drinking is a massive part of the college experience and I was like curious leading up to actually getting to school like all right am I going to be like within that scene like am I going to be actively drinking or am I going to be the type of person who was in high school or was like you know like I just don't have the urge or the need for that so I'd be curious to know like
From your perspective, when you got to college and you were also on top of that, you were a college athlete, you played baseball. Did you know like going into college, like drinking is gonna be a big part of my experience?
Chris Rinaldi (09:42.298)
Yes and no. I knew it was going to be part of the experience just from, you know, talking to people about, you know, schools in general, taking my official visit, right? Like part of why I went to Holy Cross aside from obviously it being a great academic school, a school where could play baseball and do something I love was it wasn't a huge, huge party school. And it wasn't
one of those massive schools where everybody is expected to, not expected to, but stereotypically, right? You show up Saturday for a tailgate and that's just the sequence of events.
But yeah, I I knew it was going to be part of it. didn't realize how big a part of it it was going to be. I mean, yeah, like for me, I don't know. I never went in thinking it would be a big part of it. And then it did actually turn into like somewhat of a big part of really just building a team culture, which looking back is like,
I guess helpful in a sense, but in a way it's you know, a little odd.
Like, you know, there would literally be days where our coach would be, you know, all right, yeah, you guys go do your thing tonight. Like have fun, whatever, right? Like not insinuating, but everyone knew what he was talking about, right? And then we were just like, had a later start time to the practice tomorrow. like essentially built into our schedule as college athletes was that time, right? So it's a little odd. It definitely is. I would like to hear your thoughts on it,
Chris Rinaldi (11:26.956)
It's definitely odd for
Tim (11:30.101)
Yeah, I mean, I wasn't a college athlete, so I can't speak to that, but I, yeah, I find it so fascinating how it's just so deeply ingrained within the culture. And I can completely understand the brotherhood and the sort of the team building behind that. And that's something that I can also talk about later down in our conversation, when we start talking about career stuff.
Chris Rinaldi (11:33.624)
I've got,
Chris Rinaldi (11:55.843)
Yeah.
Tim (11:58.987)
because I can talk about it from that standpoint. in terms of sports, mean, I could totally see it from your standpoint. Or if I did play college sports of like, hey, this is something that I have to do if I want to be a good teammate and build that brotherhood. Because you could make the case of like, this is going to make us a better team when we're playing.
Chris Rinaldi (12:22.038)
Well, and that's a thing, right? Like for me looking at it, by no means was I like, all right, wow, I really have to go drink because if I don't drink, like there's going to be a huge lack of team chemistry, right? Like that was never exactly what was going through my head, but right. Like coming in as a freshman, wanting to compete for a spot, wanting to quote unquote, be a part of the team
every other waking hour of the day is competing against these guys. you know, I want to beat them out for the spot. want to compete just in general. That is really the time where it's like, all right, like we could bond, right? Like we don't have to be going at each other as much. So it is, it's interesting that that's like that, but it is, it's, it's a big part of, yeah, just the culture, would say in general.
And I'm sure, you know, like obviously we're saying it, I'm saying it right now as if it is this huge big thing. And it is and it isn't, but I'm sure it's, you know, even more of a thing at bigger schools, which is exactly why I wanted to avoid that. But it's definitely very interesting to
Tim (13:31.935)
Yeah, I I went to Holy Cross as well. I was a year behind you. I think the I think the biggest thing that drew me to Holy Cross, obviously, I had a lot of family members go there. But I think the biggest thing that drew me was they're just not being frats because that's obviously the biggest component to it. I mean, my first school that I wanted to go to was Wake Forest. I badly wanted to go there. And once I got to Holy Cross and thinking about the entire experience,
of not getting into Wake Forest. like, you know what? Like, I think if I got into that school, there's a good chance
Tim (14:10.291)
I would have maybe not regretted it, but I'm just feel like this isn't the place for me because I knew that if I went to a school with frats, that's where I would have drew the line where I'm like, I don't want to be in a frat. and with all this being said, because I feel like this can kind of come off as like, we're just like bashing alcohol or like bashing alcohol or bashing college. And like I drank all throughout college and have
Chris Rinaldi (14:19.48)
Yeah.
Chris Rinaldi (14:30.256)
yeah.
Tim (14:38.567)
zero regrets and I'm glad that I did because I think I honestly think that and everyone has to make their own decisions but I honestly think that there's massive benefits and that you should drink throughout college because I think it's just important to understand how you connect with people in that type of setting and environment and obviously that
lead to lot of negatives if you're not controlling your relationship with alcohol. But I think for most people, they are able to and it kind of sets you up for life after college where you can be like, all right, I had that experience and I understand what that type of life looks like and being in those types of settings. But now I'm going to go down a different path.
Chris Rinaldi (15:14.411)
Exactly.
Tim (15:38.942)
after college with
Chris Rinaldi (15:40.886)
Yeah, no, I think the big word there is control, right? Like being in control of your relationship with alcohol is a good way to put it. I think the perfect way.
Yeah, I
I think in general, that's when there becomes a problem, right? Like people go overboard, they get carried away with the environment and what you're doing it, the goal of just drinking in general. I think that's when it could really take a turn. But yeah, I think as long as you're managing that relationship, there's nothing, nothing terrible that could come out of it. And honestly,
Like you said, in that environment, you you're 18, 22 year old kid, it does lead to some great times, right? Like you, I wouldn't have changed really much about my college experience. I had a great four years. I loved Holy Cross. Definitely don't want this to come off as like me bashing it in any way, shape or form, because I would go back in a heartbeat, right? But yeah, I think that's a great way to put
Tim (16:51.039)
Yeah, and I'm the same way if, you know, I had to relive my college years, I don't have any regrets of saying I drank or I would say, you know, okay, I'm not drinking at all. Because I honestly think, you know, I can say this very openly, like, I think if I didn't drink in college,
And it's interesting because you could say that's a bad thing. I don't think I would have made a single friend like I've had like an actual like close friend or like person that I'm connected with after school. And you can say if you're looking at it from a macro standpoint, you could say, all right, that's a massive problem. And I could understand
Chris Rinaldi (17:33.998)
Yeah. No, I mean, look, I completely agree, right? Like 18 to 22 year old guys and girls don't know how to socialize period. Like, and then I'll speak for, you know, 26 year old people, right? Like some 26 year old people still don't know how to socialize. And I'm lucky that, you know,
able to do that without alcohol. I think a lot of people like yourself, like, you know, a lot of people we're friends with are fully capable of that now. But I agree with you, right? Like if you just as an 18 year old kid don't have that, I don't think, I mean, maybe it's our society. I think this could be a way bigger discussion, right? But like, I don't think a lot of 18, 19 year old guys and girls are taught how to socialize without alcohol.
And so yeah, I think again, just as long as the control part is there, it, yes, I think it leads to a lot of really close friendships.
Tim (18:37.985)
Yeah, 100%. And I don't think it's...
necessarily even, and I've talked about this with your brother, it's not the alcohol that you're wanting or losing. It's the social environment and the connections that you're able to make within that setting.
Chris Rinaldi (18:59.222)
Absolutely. would say it's that exactly. Plus just people being willing to let their guard down a little bit. Everybody, especially today, like, I'm going to be judged for everything I do. And you can't be silly. You can't make a joke. For me, that was the big thing in making friends coming into Holy Cross. My whole life, really, is just having my sense of humor and
rolling with it, right? Like you might not like every joke that I say or whatever I say, right? But like nine times out of 10, that's when like I've been able to find guys and girls who just enjoy, you know, a laugh and like, I don't know. That's just, that's just me.
Tim (19:50.047)
Yeah, I think the most challenging thing for me when it came to drinking was going back and forth between summer breaks and college because I'm a person who outside of that college environment, I'm very rarely going to drink. It's just something that I don't do very often. So during those summer breaks, it was
All right. I'd be focusing on caddying and working out and not drinking. And it felt like, all right, like I'm making like real progress here on stuff that I take very seriously and love to do. And then it was like jumping back into that college environment where I knew I'd be drinking. It would just be like very tough. And this is where I talk about
the relationship with yourself and being your most authentic self. To a certain extent, it felt like I was jumping back and forth between who I really was and sort of giving up a part of myself to fit in, which I was fine with doing, but it was tough jumping back and forth between those two settings. And I know by the time senior year came around, I was like, I like it's time to.
get out of this setting. And I knew like, I knew after college, I was
Chris Rinaldi (21:18.158)
Yeah.
Tim (21:25.055)
you can kind of reinvent yourself. You're not necessarily going to be around all the same people all the time. So it allows yourself to create new habits or just be a new person. So I knew after college, like it was like, I'm going to be a person who's like, no, I don't drink. I rarely drink instead of kind of being like, all right, let me continue to fit into a certain extent.
Chris Rinaldi (21:52.098)
Yeah, no, I think the biggest thing is just like doing it on your own, on your own time at your will, right? Like that's the thing that you can't really control in college is, I mean, you can control the environment. get me wrong, right? Like me and you absolutely could have gone to the Holy Cross Hotel gym, like that little mirror room, right? And that's a whole different conversation, but like, but at the same time, right? Like, yeah.
You want to go have fun with your friends. Your friends are typically not doing that on a Friday, Saturday night, and not just college. And that's why, least speaking for myself here, that's why I wouldn't have changed it. Because when else in your life do you have that? No responsibility where you got to worry about something the next day? No, it's just a different, it really is a different world. So
Tim (22:47.391)
Yeah, I mean, made a ton of great memories. And like, like I said, made a lot of great friends who alcohol was a main part of kind of building those friendships. And the interesting thing for me also was, cause I studied abroad in Ireland and I would say that was the really first time where the relationship with alcohol changed compared to college, because when it was traveling through Europe, it was just a different mindset.
than being on a college campus or in a basement where it was like, all right, we're kind of drinking to become more integrated within the culture and going from bars to bars with also knowing like, all right, like we have to also be careful here. Like we're not, you know, on a college campus where we're kind of just enclosed. And I would say like that was like really the first time in my life
I kind of like enjoyed the experience of drinking alcohol. Like I enjoyed drinking alcohol like on college campus, like it was a fun part, but it was just like a much more mature way of going about
Chris Rinaldi (24:00.322)
Yeah. No, think that's honestly, I think that's a big part of it. like you mentioned before, right? Like your relationship with alcohol. mean, like my fiance, Maggie, I was, like, need to enjoy it, right? Like it's about enjoying it. It's about just like allowing yourself to not be so pressured by what's going on around you. Just kind of roll at your own pace.
if you will. And yeah, I feel like that's probably more the environment. I've never been to Ireland. I hope to go. I've heard great things, but like I feel like that is the environment, like you said, when you're removed from that college
Tim (24:43.841)
Yeah, 100%. And I think just another big thing that needs to be stated, like saying like, because neither of us are like anti alcohol, like my main mindset and way of life is live and let live. And I've told people this like live and let live. Like I'm not pushing a certain way of life or saying like, oh, you need to be eating this or like, you shouldn't be drinking alcohol. It's like, let me live.
my life the way I think is best for me to live and you can make decisions and think the way that you want to think because I think that's one of the I think that's the main reason why this like non -alcoholic lifestyle hasn't gained like a lot of hate is because I think it's like a lot of people who are just doing it for themselves and they're not pushing it on to other people.
Cause I think it's like really funny when you look at other stuff like, you know, like CrossFit or like veganism. feel like the reason why that gets like joked about is because people are like constantly like on the front line saying like, I'm a vegan. Like this is like, should be vegan as well. And I feel like with alcohol, like the reason why it hasn't gotten like that, at least from my perspective is because people are just living that way for themselves and they're not pushing it on to other people.
What are your thoughts on that?
Chris Rinaldi (26:13.495)
No, I think it's a good point. And I do want to get, because this got me thinking about your word that might make it to the dictionary, personamie. I want to get there at some point. But I think it kind of relates to that. In a way, that whole movement of just taking care of yourself, what you want to do for yourself.
doesn't need to be talked about, Like it's for you, for that person, right? So it's like, there is no need to push it because it's for no one other than you. And I like that, like live and let live. I think that's great. I think if more people live like that, there would be a lot less problems. But yeah, think that's a great point.
Tim (27:06.677)
Yeah, I I think that's the thing that I've struggled with the most with not being the biggest drinker at this point in my life, like rarely drinking.
is having people tell me basically like, what's the matter with you? why don't you drink? That's not what the rest of us do. Do what the rest of us are doing. And I always try to, I guess, bite my tongue to a certain extent because I just think in my head, live and let live. I'm not telling you that you should be living the way that I live. You do your thing. I completely understand.
somebody wanting to have.
active relationship with alcohol. see no problem with that. It's just from my perspective, I'm like, all right, this isn't something in my life that I'm regularly going to be doing.
Chris Rinaldi (27:59.746)
Yeah, absolutely. No, and I think the last thing I'll say is just like, I think all of that, like the pushing, mainly with alcohol comes from like an insecurity, right? Like if someone can't enjoy a drink, two drinks, whatever it is that they want to enjoy without making you or whoever it is that they're surrounded by feel like they have to do that too. To me, that's just like the biggest, you might as well like put a sign on your face that just says
I'm extremely insecure about what I'm doing right now. Like, just stop doing it then, right? Like that's what it says to me. I could be misreading that entirely, but in my experience with it, that's exactly what it is. And I have gladly at this point in my life, no problem saying like, I'm great actually, thanks, like, but enjoy it. You know, like you gotta do things on your own time.
Tim (28:53.259)
Yeah,
Tim (28:56.681)
Yeah. And I mean, I think that ties into the career aspect now because like I said earlier, I think when you leave college, it allows you to reinvent yourself to a certain extent. And I think that's really important once you become a professional because I knew when I started, my first job was working in commercial, commercial real estate in New York city. And I made it up in my mind. I was like, from a social standpoint,
I was just gonna say like, I do not drink because I wanted to put a hard line in the sand of like, like this is not what I do on a regular basis because I knew if I wasn't true to myself because that was the biggest thing like getting back to the relationship with yourself is the most important to develop. I was like, alright in college it felt like I was neglecting myself a little bit or I was gonna you
Chris Rinaldi (29:32.248)
Yeah, you kind of have to.
Tim (29:55.649)
play into the group a little bit and have that be a part of my, who I was as a person and drink. But after college, I was like, no, like that's being cut off. And I feel like I found a new sense of confidence within myself and it could be tough at times. But like I talked about with your brother as well. I think if you do it a certain amount of times, it gets easier and easier and you kind of play into
being the one who does his own thing and that just further increases your confidence in yourself and making decisions for
Chris Rinaldi (30:35.5)
No, I couldn't agree more. I think when it comes to building that relationship with yourself, it's about boundaries for me. Like, I mean, I just started a new job in the city and I would say a lot of the social aspect of that job is outside of work events where, you know, when I would say, no, I'm not going or, you know, go and not drink, you know, there'd be other people there who are not drinking too.
But the expectation at those types of events, which I know you've talked about, is, yeah, like you're going to drink, right? Like that is how to be social. And I think, I mean, again, for me at this point in my life, I'm not saying I'm a grandpa, right? I'm 26, I'm still gonna enjoy a beer or a glass of wine or whatever when I want, but after
long day of work or know whatever commuting into the city and home like I don't really want to go drink with my co -workers like we've had all day to grab a coffee and be social or go grab lunch and be social like this is for me my boundary and I'm gonna set that and I think that's been huge for me I think it yeah I think it goes beyond just obviously alcohol but like one thing over the past couple of years for
that has helped me a ton in setting boundaries. And I think maybe you talked about it with Joe, I'm blanking a little bit, but the ability to say no is huge there. And it's something that I did not learn soon enough, but when you learn that, I think you touch on it. It's like this whole new confidence that you get.
Tim (32:25.249)
Yeah, it's very challenging at the start. Like I said, the more and more you do it, the easier it becomes and the more confident it becomes. And also from, think, looking at it from other people's perspective, they start to just see you as that true version of yourself, which I think is the biggest goal, where if you're putting out a fake version of yourself
if you're wavering and like you said, not setting those boundaries that feel most true to you, people are gonna see that fake version and they're just going to be interacting with that fake version and thinking and talking like you are that fake version, which is not what you wanna do. And getting more so into my perspective from the career thing, you I always
the understanding I think from pretty early on that I wasn't going to feel fully integrated onto my team. And this is tying back to you and baseball. You know, I was on a very small real estate team. was probably like 12 or 13 people. And it was like a sports team basically. And I knew
that social environment, those social settings, you know, those parties, those drinking occasions were real team building activities and really becoming a brotherhood. And I understood that, yeah, I'm on the team, but I'm not like fully on the team. And I actually think that David Goggins talked about that in his first book where
He said like he was a Navy SEAL, but he wasn't a part of the SEALs because of not playing into that drinking culture. And I, that was something that I always struggled with. You know, I didn't, I left real estate because you know, that just wasn't the path for me from the standpoint of the work. Like I really didn't enjoy the work and I knew it wouldn't be a full -time career for me. But I also knew that, you know, like a secondary reason was like, I'm never going to fully
Tim (34:47.786)
be on the team, which I think a lot of people struggle with within their career if they don't necessarily fully buy into the social aspect where they kind of want to keep life and work separate. It just becomes very challenging if you don't buy into
Chris Rinaldi (35:10.988)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think like the overarching theme here, at least that I'm hearing and that, you know, I'd like to hear your thoughts on it too. It's just like building a culture that people feel like they could go and be as successful as they know they can be in. Like, I don't know if that's too much of me extracting, right? Like a deeper.
But like for me, and then you reference a sports team, right? Like I look back at like my time at Holy Cross and my one year at Richmond and like being at EY for the start of my career, liking certain parts, not liking certain parts, going to a startup, right? And now being back at a bigger company than JP Morgan. I think it all comes down to like what culture is built at the top.
that allows you to feel capable to do what you need to do and not conform to what is being almost built in a way. I don't know. I would like to hear your thoughts on
Tim (36:26.047)
Yeah, no, a hundred percent. I think that is a hundred percent correct where whatever's happening at the top kind of trickles down. whatever type of environment the top is building, like that's what it's going to be. And if those people at the top have that big social aspect and you know, drinking is a big part of how they build culture, then that's kind
what it's going to be, you know, trickling all the way down to the bottom. And I also knew from like the standpoint
drinking or this was just my opinion on things that I wouldn't have been as successful in the real estate business because I didn't have
Tim (37:20.789)
big social component, big drinking component to me. where, you know, when you're in social settings, business gets talked about as well within that. And I knew that that was necessary. That was probably going to hold me back. And I was also looking at it from the standpoint of my team where, well, if this is going to hold me back, it's going to hold the team back as a whole. So it's probably best that I leave then.
hold both of us back because that wouldn't be good for any of
Chris Rinaldi (37:52.952)
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a super fair way to look at it. And like one of the questions I had for you, cause you you're still obviously in the startup world is like what aspect of being in that world do you appreciate, you know, having been in an environment and on a team where it wasn't really your speed like
Tim (38:18.965)
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting from two different standpoints. One, because it's fully remote. I feel like. And this is the only remote I've only had two jobs, I've had one in -person job and I've had one remote job, so I can't compare one remote to another remote and one in -person to another in -person, but just comparing them, you know, one to another. I think it's super, super challenging.
to build a culture within a remote setting where you're not in front of people physically on a daily basis. And that's a good thing and a bad thing because it's a good thing because I think it allows you to build an individual culture where like, all right, like who I am as a person, like that's gonna be the culture for my company, basically from a standpoint like
And it also helps from a social standpoint where like, okay, if we're not always going to be around each other, that's there's not that pressure or there's not that sort of like feeling on the outside looking in from everyone else. And
Tim (39:39.731)
Also, the industry that I went into, I knew I wanted to be more so within the fitness, health and wellness support space.
And a big part of that was because obviously that was what I was most interested in. And it was also because it was like, all right, I want to be around other people who have the same type of interests. And I think when you are around the people with the same interests, a lot of the time, those interests also just play into way of life and how you live your life. So I naturally found that the people that I'm working
Chris Rinaldi (40:14.818)
Yeah.
Tim (40:20.595)
in this startup scene and it's a startup in one aspect of the business and another aspect of the business. It's, you know, fully mature, but like the people that I'm working with, I'm like, all right, like similar interests, similar way of life with health and wellness. And, you know, I hate using the word like clean, but like just like more, you know, appreciative of, you know, what they're doing with their body and their mind.
Chris Rinaldi (40:29.08)
Yeah,
Chris Rinaldi (40:45.454)
that.
Chris Rinaldi (40:49.068)
Yeah, no, I think clean is a totally fair word there.
Tim (40:52.425)
Yeah. So I mean, it was, was interesting because that was, that was the biggest thing for me where I, and I think that's the biggest thing for anyone's career, where it's like, I want to
around the like -minded people who are have the same interests and are growing in a place that I also want to be growing. With that being said though...
Tim (41:21.149)
The only one bad component of the real estate was sort of like that social setting, like, you know, work hard, play hard environment with drinking. Like take that away though. Like the people that I was working with, probably like the hardest working people I'll ever meet in my entire life. Like to a certain extent, like I still look at my bosses.
that I worked with in real estate, I still see them as like my bosses, probably like, I'll probably feel like that for like my entire career. And I always think to myself like, in certain situations that I'm in now in my job, like, I like, like, what would they do in this situation? So yeah.
Chris Rinaldi (41:59.298)
day.
Chris Rinaldi (42:12.035)
Yeah, no, I mean a couple of things. The first being, I mean I agree with everything you said. One takeaway that I had in my head was, right, like the more people treat themselves with respect, and you hesitated to use the clean, I like that word, the more they are gonna treat the people around them with respect, right? And like,
I mean, I've had one job where it was hybrid, mostly remote, but yeah, still enough in person where I got to observe people, learn from people. Another job for a year where I didn't work together with anybody in person at all. And then now a job where I'm in the office next to my entire team three days a week, and then remote the other two. And I think the biggest thing there is you could, you could absolutely see the difference. I mean, I could tell
in past jobs and my present job, right? Like this person is a hundred percent taking care of themselves. And you could just observe it in every detail of their work, their responses to questions, how they communicate on a call. I mean, I'll give you this one example. There's this guy I work with, Ruweid, right? Like one of the hardest working people, he's not even my direct boss, but like you said, right? Like just...
one of those people where it's like, wow, okay, like that's a standard I want to hold for myself, right? And it's like, you could just see he takes care of himself so well that like he literally comes to work and almost has to take care of other people at times, right? Like it's the truth, it's how people operate. And it's like, in a sense, the plain reality of it is like
the more you're able to take care of yourself. And I heard this on like a sales podcast. The more you're able to take care of yourself, the more you're able to take care of your clients, right? So like if you're in the sales world, if you can't even take care of yourself, your person, what makes you think that you are going to serve other people and their businesses well, right? Like that's just delusional. And that's an aspect of business that I really
Chris Rinaldi (44:34.878)
is sales, business development, right? Like building those relationships.
And yeah, I it's just, it's, would encourage people if they're just starting their careers to just like take notice of the top people in whatever the function is and how they act and if they could tie that to like, you know, habits they form in their daily work. So I don't know. That was just some things, thoughts.
Tim (45:04.659)
Yeah, I think I saw an article on this a long time ago in the wall street journal and it's awesome. There was this boss who I don't know if it was people probably wasn't people that he was interviewing, but like recently hired or, you know, people who he was working with. He would be like, let's go get a workout in like in business. The big things are, you know, let's go out for drinks. Let's play around a golf. But this guy was like, let's go get a workout
And I think it's so fascinating because you can tell so much about a person if you get them into that type of environment where if they're doing something a little physically demanding, a little uncomfortable, you're gonna find out really quickly, like, all right, how does this person respond to this type of stress? And like you were saying, people who take care of themselves and they push themselves very hard,
in some type of physically demanding activity and are very healthy.
they're much more inclined to be able to deal with that type of stress in their career where they're just used to it. It's like, all right, this is something that we just deal with. And I think certain people kind of play into that and really like it actually where they like a little chaos or they feed into that and it energizes them a little bit.
and it makes them, it sets themself apart from other people.
Chris Rinaldi (46:43.406)
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And it is something that I've noticed at bigger companies, right? Like more people, I don't want to say get away with that, right? But like more people get away with like living that chaoticness, chaotic life within, just because I think they know they can, right? Because for me, right, like my experience at a company like Ernst & Young or a company like JP Morgan, right?
The culture is just, you know, if you get told to do something, you are doing it, right? There is no like, like, all right, you have this skill, I have this skill, we could work together, bash this out in like two minutes. It's not like, I just got to sign this, I need to do this. And like, a lot of the times, right, like that might not even be the best move, but it's just how it works, right? So I agree with everything you just said. Yeah, it's
It's interesting to me because environment is everything. yeah, I just, as I am big on development, I know you are too, but like as I develop in my career, like I just take these mental notes of like, this is how I want to do things when I get to this point. Like when I'm leading a team, this is how I want to do X, Y, Z.
And yeah, I've enjoyed doing this kind of mental sessions.
Tim (48:08.255)
Yeah, I think touching on the environment thing, think environment is so massive if...
Like when I was in real estate being in that environment, like I would bring my meals to the office every single day. You know, I'd bring my gym bag and that was looked at kind of as, that's different. Like nobody else really does
But it just goes to like, if we're in an environment where there were nine or 10 people like me doing that and one or two people who weren't doing that, then it would be like, maybe those one or two would be like, you know what, I should maybe get on that type of program. So it just goes to the numbers. And if you can be that person. And I remember telling myself this, like, it doesn't matter, especially after college, like it doesn't matter what the environment is,
Chris Rinaldi (48:43.736)
Exactly.
Chris Rinaldi (48:50.594)
Yeah.
Tim (49:03.797)
the environment is yourself. Like that is your environment. Like what do you want to do? Like what is your mind telling you that feels like most authentic? Like doesn't matter what other people are doing around you. Like you are your own environment and you could, and the way that I also look at it is like if I'm going to set the standard like for myself as a person, I always, I always think of myself now, like maybe there's another person like
Because I was like that to a certain extent, like maybe there's another person like that around me who wants to do that, but doesn't have the confidence or the courage to sort of step out and do what they truly want. And that's what I always say now. Like being your most authentic self, you're not just doing that for yourself, but like you're doing it to give people the okay. And like the keys to do that for themselves as well. It's like, Hey, I'm doing it for me.
It's okay if you do it for yourself as
Chris Rinaldi (50:03.502)
Yeah, no, I completely agree. like last thing on that, I would say is you said, right, it's a numbers game, right? Because it really is. I love, I mean, I love like just underdog stories, underdog mentality, all of that. But like being that one and being able to like literally convert people to your side of like just having that mentality, I think is like super powerful.
I think it's definitely something that obviously like the out worker speaks to as a whole. but just that we both do just like in what we get involved
Tim (50:46.581)
Yeah, going off that with the out worker, mean, like the deeper meaning behind that, just like the out worker. Well, that's synonymous with is basically just like the individual, like be yourself, like be the individual, like be the one who isn't afraid to go against the numbers because it's so easy just
Tim (51:14.213)
within that crowd and I think that's one of the benefits to a certain extent of college is kind of you play within that crowd and you kind of understand being within that social setting and doing what other people are doing so you kind of understand that environment of things and
once you learn being in that environment, feel like it allows you the courage or more so like the confidence of like, I don't want to do that anymore. Like let me do my own
Chris Rinaldi (51:45.324)
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And like, I know I mentioned this before, but I honestly do think like you have a shot at getting this in the dictionary is personam. I never thought about it like that. Right. And you said Warren Buffett, right? The biggest investment you can make is an investment in yourself. And like, if you actually take time to think about that, right? Like, I mean, I've worked in, I mean, I work in the financial services industry right now. I worked in
a year and half ago when I was at EY, Like companies spend all this time, all this money on evaluating companies, which big picture just groups of people following a process, right? And no one really takes that time to evaluate, okay, like this section of my life is like, if it was a stock through the roof, but like this section, not at all, right? And
just investing that time because as an individual, that's really all you, like the choice you have is invest more time in this part of your life. It couldn't be more true. So I think that's like, I mean, A, I don't know how you thought about that, but like B, it's awesome and I love it.
Tim (53:03.297)
few things going off that, guess one, I thought about it. I feel like I've just become a much more intellectual person. And especially with being an English major, I think that's helpful with that. And for people that don't know or just to give them like the background on it. So personam is basically just combining two words with person and economy, where it's basically like you're investing in yourself. And I think part of
reasoning why I was able to come up with that word or understanding behind it is because when I was like a young kid, my dad, you know, my dad always worked in finance. And, you know, he would get me certain things like, you know, he hired a personal trainer for me or getting me a new book or whatever it is. And he would always tell me in like, in a very serious fashion, he's like, I'm investing in
Like he saw me kind of like as an investment or like putting things in those terms, like, you know, I'm buying this for you or I'm getting this certain thing for you or I'm putting you through college because I see you as an investment. And I think if you have that mindset, one from the standpoint
All right. The things that I'm doing are to invest in myself, but also having that sort of like long -term mindset on things where, Hey, the stuff that I'm going to be working on right now, isn't going to be paying off, but it's like compound interest. Like it's going to take off over time. So I think that's how that's sort of like the background of how I came up with that. And that's actually like, and like you said, we're probably like, you heard, you know, when I mentioned person to me, like that was one of the other names
Chris Rinaldi (54:43.054)
Definitely.
Tim (54:54.921)
I thought about calling the podcast, like the personamie podcast. I just went with out worker because I don't know that that just like resonated with me more. And I feel like I wanted to choose a word that was already like made instead of like personamie, but like personamie is a very cool word.
Chris Rinaldi (55:12.706)
Yeah. I think it's an awesome word. like going off of, cause I was listening to the first episode where you kind of talked about this stuff. think another potential name that you had in there was all athletic, right? Like you said, having the drive to pursue constant improvement and how we we're all athletes. I think that just couldn't be more true. I don't know if this is like our pivot to mindset in the conversation, but like, I don't know for me.
Tim (55:38.443)
Go there.
Chris Rinaldi (55:42.72)
Yes, like as a former athlete, I think, like you said, we all are, but it's just life. Like life is quite literally, I mean, whether you buy into it or not, that's your choice, but like, can you develop yourself over this extended period of time? Right. And like how seriously you take that determines a lot. and I mean, I go back to, I know I joke about it, right. But
Holy Cross Hotel gym, right? Like we had that one 10 by 10 room with like, it's basically like someone's garage gym for an entire student, or, you know, student body population. And like, yeah, for one little, yeah. And for me, that was like, all right, like I kept seeing you in there, obviously, naturally. And I was like, I mean, if this is where I keep seeing Tim,
Tim (56:23.873)
3000 kids for one little box.
Chris Rinaldi (56:39.736)
he's gotta be serious about it. There's no other way to put it, right? If you're in that room with that one set of weights and those three benches at the right time where no one else is in there, you gotta be pretty serious about it. So I think in general, right, we both just have a pretty similar mindset when it comes to A, how hard we're working and where we see ourselves going, but also just
Yeah, the comparison to being an athlete really stuck with me. And I love
Tim (57:12.575)
Yeah, I think the thing also with athletes and I guess my mindset with that name and that can be a great brand in itself, Allphotic.
Chris Rinaldi (57:23.616)
and get some rights on
Tim (57:26.069)
You know, people would always, from my own perspective, people would always, you know, ask me because, you know, I've always been big into weightlifting. And I feel like I always lived, I feel like I always lived like an athlete. I always had like an athlete mindset, you know, I played sports in high school, but then I stopped. And people would always tell me or ask me like, like, you know, you must have played college sports. Like, you know, what'd you play? And it was like, no, like I just work out a lot.
And that's where all athletic comes from because I'm like, being an athlete is like you said, it's a mindset and you do not have to play a sport to be an athlete in that sense. And I talked about this in the first episode. We have such a romanticized glorified look at athletes because we see them 1 % of the time.
Chris Rinaldi (58:23.32)
Yep.
Tim (58:24.193)
when they're on the big stage, spotlights on them, they just won a championship or whatever, and they're playing their games. And it's like, all right, you take the camera away, like the other 99 % of what they're doing up until that point where they're actually playing, like you can be doing all of that stuff. Like you can be doing 99 % of the stuff that a world -class athlete is. It's just like the only thing that you're not going to be doing is playing the actual game
The other aspect that really came from that name was Bill Bowerman, who was one of the founders of Nike. It's one of Nike's, you know, founding slogans from the start. You know, if you have a body, you're an athlete. And it just gets into that mindset of an athlete is just another person. Like there's nothing special about them. They're just putting the work and you can do the same as well.
Chris Rinaldi (59:21.959)
I couldn't agree more.
played I played against them played with like guys like I'm sure you know Declan Cronin right like Holy Cross guy talked about like I mean we can talk about this whole podcast with Declan Cronin right but like especially alcohol right like great example of why you don't eat it and how you know I mean that guy was in the library at midnight he would drink occasionally right but like talk about having boundaries and knowing exactly what he wanted and where he was going right
Tim (59:46.891)
He never drank.
Chris Rinaldi (59:57.246)
I mean, he was the hardest worker, right? Like that's just, that's his brand, right? And it's proven out, right? Like that's exactly what he is and who he, what, who he is and what he does. But right, like it just all comes back to, for me, what you said, what you do, how you do it and why you do it. And I was curious what those three things meant to you.
That was like my one question I had there.
Tim (01:00:28.619)
What were they? Who are you?
Chris Rinaldi (01:00:30.072)
So what you do, how you do it, and why you do it. So like for you, what are your goals? Like how are you planning on doing that? Loaded question. And why are you doing
Tim (01:00:45.409)
So you're gonna have to tell me this again, but I'll start with the what. So, and this is also a big component, sort of, I guess, philosophy behind the word out worker and just my component of at work. So I've basically taken my mindset and I think the results that I've achieved.
through working out. And I'm like, all right, let me take that philosophy and just bring it into other aspects of my life.
Tim (01:01:26.837)
I don't know if you've heard the term you probably have, but like with working out progressive overload is basically you're trying to do more weight or reps or sets than that previous workout. And
Tim (01:01:44.193)
I'll make this a long story because I don't care. It's my podcast. I'll make it as long as I want. But like when you're talking about working out, like obviously like when I was in the gym, like I had goals of, I don't want to be as big and strong as possibly can. Like I want to, you know, get, I want to, you know, focus, you know, I'm putting this much amount of muscle on. Like I want to have like, you know, a 275 bench or whatever it is, or like just having those types of like physical goals. Like when I was young, like I was always like, all right, like this is where I'm trying to
Chris Rinaldi (01:01:46.851)
Yeah, I
Tim (01:02:13.407)
Like I'm always like, I'm trying to get over there. And as I got older and I feel like I had like a really good plan in place and system in place where it was like, all right, like here are my workouts, like here are my meals that I'm eating on a daily basis. My mindset completely shifted
Not even focusing on where I was trying to go or, know, what I was trying to do, like what I was trying to achieve, but just beating or staying consistent with what I was doing the previous day. So in life, I would say like, yeah, I have big goals where, you know, I have big professional goals with my career and hopefully with this podcast down the line, potentially with
Chris Rinaldi (01:03:06.35)
Yeah.
Tim (01:03:07.329)
creative, you know project that I have going like obviously I have goals with that but like my mindset is completely fixed on What did I do yesterday? Am I staying consistent with that and am I beating what I did yesterday and Just in terms of the podcast I feel like that philosophy is already starting to prove right where I'm not trying to focus on where I'm going I'm trying to
focus on what I'm beating yesterday. Because in the grand scheme of things...
That's all I can really control. Like, and I talked about this yesterday actually with somebody and you you put it into the...
Chris Rinaldi (01:03:45.454)
Absolutely.
Tim (01:03:55.349)
definition of you what are your goals and I would say I'm of the mindset now where I'm not trying to find a goal that I want to achieve I'm trying to find a game that I want to play because I Think when you have a goal that you're trying to achieve, like I said You're constantly thinking about like, okay What am I doing now because I want to get over there like where am I trying to
With games, feel like games are fun. Like both of us have played games, whether it's sports or video games. Like when you're playing a game, you're like, I love what I'm doing in the moment. Like I love the work that is going into this right now. Like games are fun. And when I was working in real estate, I learned, I was like, this doesn't feel like a game to me. And for other people, it did feel like a game. So I'm like, I'm probably going to be beat.
Chris Rinaldi (01:04:37.71)
right now.
Tim (01:04:54.795)
by people that this feels like work to me, but it feels like a game for them. So this probably isn't the profession for
What was the second
Chris Rinaldi (01:05:06.862)
Yeah, so first off, I love that the mindset of like making it a game. I'm gonna have to try that. Second is how do you plan on getting there? But I think honestly, like you kind of covered that. Unless you want to obviously go
Tim (01:05:21.959)
No, I think that plays into it as well. I, you know, I've talked with other people about this. Like I had a guy on Grant Betchart who was the sports psychologist and he said the same thing. He's like, I'm not even focused on where I'm trying to go. I'm trying to be here because here is going to take me to a place I want to go. Like I'm not focused on where I'm trying to be focusing on where I am now. And if I just focus on the now,
that's naturally going to take me to a place that I'm probably going to like, that I'm going to be.
Chris Rinaldi (01:05:57.965)
Yeah, I really like that. And so he's a sports
Tim (01:06:00.585)
It's challenging though. It's really, it's challenging. Like because, you know, I can talk about that and say, do that a hundred percent of the time. And I think I've definitely gone better at that over the years, but it's obviously tough not to have your mind wander or, you know, always feel like I'm trying to be in a different spot than I am
Chris Rinaldi (01:06:25.73)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and then the last one was why do you do it? And I think this is kind of driving at like maybe those bigger goals that you referenced with like the podcast and just professionally.
Tim (01:06:29.057)
And then what was the last one?
Tim (01:06:39.893)
Yeah, I mean the Y is
so fascinating because I feel like it always changes because there are some days where
I ask myself,
you know, why, why do you work so hard? Or like, why do do this stuff? Where I'm like, you know, you could, and then there are other days where I'm like, why do you have this sort of like drive to have these sort of creative entrepreneurial endeavors when you could just focus on, you know, a corporate career and like staying in real estate and just going down that path. And there'd be a lot of days
I would like really try to, I don't know, convince myself or like, just ask myself like very deeply, like, why can't you love this path that you're on? Because I'm like, I could see, I'm like, this is a great path. Like this could be, I could be very successful at this. I have all the skills for it. I have the mentorship and the environment around me. can make a ton of money at it, but it just wouldn't be that fulfillment.
Tim (01:07:53.941)
I feel like the why for me
Tim (01:07:58.381)
It's tough to put it into words and I feel like your brother had the same thing where he said it's not always easy
put it into concrete words. It's just kind of a feeling. And for me, I guess I would say two different things. The why for me is
Chris Rinaldi (01:08:12.844)
Of I get
Tim (01:08:24.341)
I guess just talking about the podcast, like I've found like, just love having deep conversations with people and just, but that also gets into the feeling aspect. Like, and just, I feel it right now with having this conversation with you and with other people as well, like the energy and the drive that I get it is a very similar feeling that I get when I have a really, really good workout. And I'm
Chris Rinaldi (01:08:44.45)
Yes.
Chris Rinaldi (01:08:52.056)
I was about to, that came right out of my head. not to cut you off, but right. Like having these conversations is like the workout for, in my opinion, the workout for your, not only your plans, but like your vision. And I mean, for me, vision is huge. Like, like you could talk about, you know, LeBron James, Steph Curry, like any elite athlete having court or field vision, right? But
In my mind, that is absolutely translatable to any other non -professional athlete navigating their life, their career. I think these conversations are kind of like a workout for that skill because not everyone has that skill. And I think it's a super valuable one. So, but sorry.
Tim (01:09:38.667)
Yes.
Tim (01:09:43.681)
Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I I talked about that sort of, actually, yeah, I I went pretty in depth. I guess I went pretty in depth about the why behind starting the podcast, I guess not the why behind all my goals, but like, like you were saying.
I think you need some type of activity that you do on a regular basis that is going to make you work physically. So running, working out, anything like that. And I think all of us need some type of creative project that we can also sink ourselves into that are going to.
challenge us mentally, creatively, emotionally, and that doesn't have to be something that you share with the world. That can be something that you just do with yourself. That could be journaling. And I've talked with people about that on the podcast as well. People who have struggled with stuff in their life and a massive component of healing from those challenges was some type of creation, whether it be journaling,
whether it be gardening, whether it was something as simple as literally just coloring books, something where, you know, and I talked about this with a great guest named Josh Chuba, who he does a lot of content creation work and writing around, you know, creativity to sort of get over chronic consumption and cheap dopamine. You know, because our society is so just consumption driven.
Chris Rinaldi (01:11:02.573)
Sure.
Tim (01:11:27.453)
especially with media and that's and that's just not about like bad media but just like good media in general as well like podcasts like good books like when you're just constantly taking in stuff like it just weighs you down and like i think the way that you counteract that is like all right if i'm constantly taking in stuff like i need to be putting something out and if you're taking something like out of your mind so like sharing your thoughts
You like when I started making videos and just like posting them on Instagram, I was like, wow, like this just feels good. Not even, not even from like the standpoint of like getting likes or like building a following or like building something. I'm just like, but having a thought and just putting out there, it's just an incredible feeling. And I think there's a lot of people who have thoughts that they would love to put out there, but it can be uncomfortable because like we were saying,
Chris Rinaldi (01:12:14.424)
Yeah, absolutely.
Tim (01:12:25.759)
Not a lot of people do that within a given environment. So you kind of just stay within the crowd. But like, if you put something out there, like you never know who it might help. Like, like that's the biggest thing. Like that's another thing that I say, like we all have a story that the world can benefit from hearing. And I always think we have thoughts in a way of life and things that we've experienced that we can articulate it in a way that nobody else could. And like, you have no idea.
who you might be helping down the line by sharing that type of
Chris Rinaldi (01:13:01.196)
Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I mean, like that's why I have just an appreciation for, you know, what you knew what my brother does, like what all entrepreneurs do. and that's also why, like, I mean, recently, more recently, I started posting some stuff on LinkedIn because it's like, you know, I've worked at a huge company in EY, worked at a startup, a two, three person startup with me included. then
another huge company, JP Morgan, and everyone's always saying, right, like, you're at the bottom, right, like, you got to just do what you're told. Don't speak, not that, not don't speak, but like your ideas aren't as good, right, like all this stuff. And it's like, no, it actually feels good to put out content. And if you don't like that content, you don't need to follow me. You don't need to even be connected with me.
But I mean, I know already just from conversations I've had that it sparked, that it's helpful to people. And maybe it's helpful in other ways that I don't even know, right? Like, so I completely, that resonates with me 100%. And then like last thing, you mentioned like not having a goal necessarily.
I'm all for having strategy, but I couldn't agree more. Like you don't need it if you have a good process. And I think like a really good quote and it's ironic cause like I was taking some notes down before we got on was a quote again, going back to Nike funny enough. but their former CEO Phil Knight who said, don't stop. Don't even think about stopping until you get there and don't give much thought to where there is whatever comes, just don't stop. Right. So
I can't even imagine what building Nike was like, because that's just a behemoth of a company. like, that's just a feat in and of itself. But like the mindset of just not even caring what's ahead of you and just the storms that are about to come and then like long nights, early wake ups, right? Like those will be there and they're going to be fun, right? But like just going and
Chris Rinaldi (01:15:17.122)
I think A, I appreciate that about what you were saying before, but B, I think it resonates with me and I think it resonates with hopefully a lot of people. And if it doesn't, I think a lot of people need to take a second to think about that. Cause I think that comes down to just being present and yeah, having like self -respect honestly.
Tim (01:15:37.077)
Yeah, from my own experiences and knowing how I am as a person, I know that if I'm focused on a goal or focused on me thinking, all right, how do I get over there? It just, I just go into a complete state of paralysis where then I'm not doing anything. And I'm a big believer that if you don't know what to
If you don't know how to get there, just do something. Like just do something and see if it works. And if it works, great, then continue doing it. If it doesn't, all right, then pivot and you do something else. And that was me with the podcast where...
Tim (01:16:23.723)
I mean, I originally had the idea for the podcast when it was like almost at the end of my senior year of college. And I knew like, I wasn't going to start it at that point. And I knew when, you know, I was working in real estate that I wasn't going to start it there because I was just too busy. And then when I got the new job, I was like, all right, like, let me get my fairings here and then I can start it. So there was probably like a good
four to five months though, where I was thinking about like, planning everything, like making sure like everything was perfect. And I just got into this total like mental funk and like state of paralysis where I was like, all right, like, you know what you have to do, but like, you're just trying to plan everything out instead of just like actually starting it. And I realized like it's so much easier.
to improve on something than it is to start something. But it's impossible to improve if you don't start the thing in the first place because then there's nothing to improve upon.
Chris Rinaldi (01:17:35.106)
Yeah, no, I love that. mean, I think, again, like going back to development, there's no developing, nothing. Right? Like, I mean, my goal, one of my goals is be like a GM of a major league team, right? And like to get there, I see myself going through an organization, right? Maybe through their, like,
player development side of things, maybe working at the MLB one day, who knows, right? What that path is. like, if I don't start on that path, and this could be years from now, whatever, but there is no making that happen. And yeah, just, I couldn't agree more. think that mindset of just improving and worrying about whatever consequences later is really awesome.
Tim (01:18:31.359)
Yeah, I think the even bigger thing than goals, and I'll say it like, yeah, like I have goals, like I just don't try to focus on them. Like you said, your thing is, you know, being a GM. Like I guess I would say my goal is like, all right, I'm gonna build this podcast into something where I could talk to anyone I want to in the world, basically, or, you know, just very big people and continue to build this into
Chris Rinaldi (01:18:54.85)
Yeah
Tim (01:19:00.351)
you know, Outworker not just as a podcast, like Outworker is a brand on its own. And
I think the bigger thing than having goals or not setting goals is I never understood the mindset
Tim (01:19:23.745)
having a timeline or like an endpoint for your goal. all right, like this is my goal and like, I'm expecting it, me to be here within the next 12 to 16 months. And from my own experience, I always thought like, how could I possibly understand or guess like where that'll be 12 to 16 months from now? And my mindset always been
How about I just focus on what I'm doing today and let's just see where this goes. Because I think people...
Tim (01:20:04.723)
If they set that sort of timeline for themselves and then they get to that time, you know, a year out or whatever, and they feel like they're not there, then it feels like, well, I'm, know, I'm behind or, know, I'm failing at this when in actuality it's like, no, like you just don't understand that it may take longer than you actually thought. you most likely probably are on the right path and it just gets to the stand.
Chris Rinaldi (01:20:21.656)
Yep.
Chris Rinaldi (01:20:33.038)
Yep.
Tim (01:20:34.089)
standpoint of like, as long as you're making that daily progress, just stick to that and see where it goes. That's my perspective.
Chris Rinaldi (01:20:42.018)
Yeah. And, and now I think it's spot on. actually just sat in on this like panel in the city, where it was like people within JP Morgan's startup and innovation section of their business. We're talking about like guidelines and like setting deadlines and all this stuff. And yeah, people tend to be super aggressive when they're planning for different projects and whatnot, but it's like, you always have to account
some unexpected failure or else, right, like you're just living in this fantasy world where everything glides along without any friction and right, like that's just not ever gonna be the case. So I think that's definitely a good way to think about it. I think definitely more people need to apply that to the way they operate, because I think it would help a lot of different things.
Tim (01:21:38.923)
Yeah. So, I mean, like I said, the main thing about this podcast is the relationship with yourself. And we've talked about, you know, two big things, sort of the relationship that we have with alcohol, the relationship with, you know, our careers and work in a professional setting and also something that, you know, has played into that, but like getting more so into it now, you know, the relationship that we have.
with ourselves physically and our body. And I know we both and a lot of people, you know, they go through very physically demanding times where they're not willingly going through those stressful times. You know, I see it as two ways where you willingly put yourself through physically tough times, whether it's through working out or sports. And then there are other times where, I'm really
being challenged here physically and it's against my will. And I think in those times it gets really interesting how you build the relationship with yourself, at least from my experience, you know, that's kind of where my entire understanding and philosophy behind this relationship with yourself stem from with, you know, my back injury that I went through a few years ago.
So I'd love to hear from your standpoint on everything, just about the relationship with your body and how it plays into everything.
Chris Rinaldi (01:23:13.976)
Yeah, I mean, I think your relationship with your body is almost everything, right? Like if you're not, if you don't have a good relationship with your body, your relationship with A, other people, but B, like yourself mentally just is not there, right? I mean, like you mentioned being in times of stress or times where you're not maybe as comfortable as you'd like to be.
I mean, for me, was, right, like this past year, I was down in Richmond, I was working at EY, was taking night classes in the fall. I ended up leaving EY, I was working as a startup, night classes, like volunteering with the baseball team, like all this stuff. And you definitely, at least me, right, like I'm tough on myself.
But it starts with if you can tolerate that toughness physically that you're choosing for yourself, you could literally handle everything. Like I firmly believe that, which is why I've made an active effort to like get in the gym, get into running, like just do things that I may not be super comfortable with. But I've enjoyed
And I'm sure I know you have too, right? But like, I think a lot of people just need to find that thing, whether it's running, whether it's lifting, crossfit, whatever, that allows them to find that version of themselves.
Tim (01:24:58.144)
Yeah, couldn't agree with you more. And I feel like I got pretty lucky because I introduced to the gym at a pretty young age. I think I started getting into the gym when I was 16 and I never had the...
interest or the push to do it on myself. Like I never thought to myself like, you got to start working out or get physically fit. It was kind of going back to what I was saying about personam in investment. It was kind of my dad saying like, you got to start working out and I'm going to get you a personal trainer. And yeah, I mean, for me, it was kind of like day one getting into the gym. It was like a feeling that
Chris Rinaldi (01:25:34.552)
Sure.
Tim (01:25:44.177)
never felt before in my life. just things just clicked right from the start and I kind of just stuck with it. And like you were saying, when you go through something physically demanding, it's going to go into all other areas of your life. I think for me though, and this is something I talked about in the second episode, I think I
to a point with working out where I just got.
so obsessed and so deep into the rabbit hole where
There's good things and bad things about that because I got so obsessed with it. Because I got so obsessed with it. I stayed away from a lot of bad stuff or didn't have interest in other things that, you know, like we were talking about, like drinking or, you know, I've never gotten into drugs really, because I feel like I had that almost euphoric experience whenever I would work out where I was like, this
Chris Rinaldi (01:26:30.104)
Yeah, there are.
Tim (01:26:55.285)
the thing where I'm getting my high to a certain extent. Like I said though, I think I put so much of my identity and purpose into who I was as a person, like into my performance in the gym, that that's where it started to hurt me a little. And it really wasn't until, you know, and now getting into the aspect of going through physically demanding things.
unwillingly. It really wasn't until I went through my back injury where I was pretty much forced to not work out and my identity had kind of and like my day to day like wasn't revolving around the gym. So like I was forced to obviously go through very physically painful time.
But I was also like, all right, like, what am I going to be doing with my days now where I don't have that sort of physical stimulus? And this is where it gets into the mental creative stimulus as well. That's where I kind of picked up the slack, whether it was through reading where I got like really into poetry and like I found poems that like really connected with me about like pain and going through physically demanding times.
And then when I got past my back injury, it's not like I went back to that, completely obsessed, like in a rabbit hole self of just being in the gym. was almost like I was refined where I had this very full circle relationship with pushing myself physically, but also pushing myself.
know, mentally and emotionally and creatively outside of the
Chris Rinaldi (01:28:55.704)
I mean it sounds to me like it helped you find a little more balance because I know
Tim (01:29:01.887)
I mean, I'm still obsessed, like, I call it like balance within obsession.
Chris Rinaldi (01:29:06.69)
Yeah, I mean look, I think that's a really good way to talk about it. mean, start with this. Compared to other people, I think I have a relationship with fitness where it's, I know I will do it and I'm not ever afraid that I'm gonna become inactive, but I now at this point in my life have a relationship where
Chris Rinaldi (01:29:37.675)
I don't want to say easy on myself, right? But flexible because before I never was. Like I was so structured, so regimented. And look, for some people that's a really, really good thing. But I think if you become too structured, too regimented, too obsessed.
it trickles into all aspects of your life. And I think that's what I found for me was bad that stems from that. So now, like if I. For example, I like if I had work and didn't get back from the city until whatever, 11 or 12, right, like, I had to be in the city the next day at seven thirty or eight, right, like.
Yeah, maybe I'd work out in the morning, whatever. But if I got home and had to do work and had to be up until two in the morning, I would be fine now. Whereas a year or two years ago, I'd be like, no, you gotta go to the gym. What are you doing? There's time to make up that quote unquote missed day or the slack. Because like you said, there's other aspects to being a human.
like that mental, emotional, all of it, right? So it's finding that balance for me anyway, of like full circle view of me that has allowed me to be more comfortable with like not being so strict about it. But I think balance within obsession is a really good way to think about it. And to be honest, like that could very well be
I don't want to say a motto or slogan for that worker, right? But it's like kind of got me thinking a little
Tim (01:31:32.703)
Yeah, there's another guy that I love. His name's Zach Pogrob, who does a lot of writing and social media work and he's pretty much branded himself around this word obsession. Like he's known as like the guy who's obsessed and he has this very interesting way of looking at things where within obsession, there's sort of three
different people within that where it's the, it's the artist, it's the athlete and it's the businessman. And I think that's kind of where I get my understanding of having that balance within obsession where obsession is a great thing. But I think if you're obsessed just within one of those components, that's where it can start to hurt you more than help
But if you have this sort of trio of people within yourself where it's the artist, the athlete and the businessman and you're obsessed with all those three people, that's when it can really help you. And I was the same way where, you know, there was a point in my life for a very long time where,
Tim (01:32:54.165)
going to the gym was like the best part of my day. Like, which is a great thing. Like to be like, I love going to the gym. I'm in a place now though, where, and it's awesome. And I thought I would never get to this spot where going to the gym just feels like a part of my day where it's like, this is a thing that I do. Like I like doing it, but it's not like my entire day. Like I still spend.
probably too much time in the gym. like, I know like as time goes on this year, like, and as I get older, like I don't want to be spending as much time in the gym as I am right now. But what personal growth looked like for me, and you've talked about it with like development, what personal development looked like for me. And I feel like for a lot of people, it's the opposite. But for me, what personal development looked like was not being so focused on fitness.
and not being so focused on, you know, this whole mindset of, I got to get bigger. I got to get stronger. And just having a more balanced approach of working out is something that I do. And it's not who I am as a person.
Chris Rinaldi (01:34:08.258)
Yeah. Yeah. I think that detachment from identity is massive. and the one thing that's definitely helped me and I think, I think being able to, and I think you said Zach, I definitely have seen that guy. I haven't been on Instagram in a while. Zach Pogrob. I just looked him up, but, I think having like those segments, if you will, of like who you are is huge.
And yeah, like just having a deep part of your day as opposed to like what drives your day. I mean, look, whatever works, but like, yeah, I think how you think about it is a big
Tim (01:34:49.067)
I mean, it's easy for me to say that now. Like it's easy for me to...
Tim (01:34:56.059)
say like, you know, after I feel like I've, you know, gotten great results from the gym, it's easy for me to say it in hindsight, like, like, you know, don't have the gym be as important or like, I like that the gym as an isn't as important because I feel like, you know, people say like, we go through seasons, like, there was a point in my life where, and I was a young kid, so was able to put as much focus, like, I think if you're a young kid, who's
between let's say 16 and college years. Like if you're like a person like me who is like, am just fully obsessed with like this lifestyle and like this is all that matters to me. I think to a certain extent that's completely fine because that's gonna keep you out of other stuff that may do more harm than you. I think as you mature though, I think you kind of just naturally see like, okay,
other important stuff that is going to allow for a better life than just being completely consumed by this one component of life.
Chris Rinaldi (01:36:06.348)
Yeah, I think and kind of moving slightly away from just the gym, but like, think balance for me has been big in a lot of different aspects because I think it's easy. I think it's easy to move a million miles per hour in the direction that seems like it is most helpful right now when in reality, like you just said, right?
The gym's going to be a part of your life, my life for the rest of our lives, right? Like it's important for me to, because at times like too obsessed is definitely too obsessed and it removes aspects of your life that are super important. Like for me, I know like family is super important to me. Friends are super important to me.
when I get super enthralled in something that is not tied into those other values in my life.
It takes away from like who I truly am, if that makes sense. So I think it's important to be able to like, and I actually just had this type of conversation the other day with the guy I work with, but like to be able to take a step back, evaluate things at a higher level and say, right, like here's where I'm at. Maybe, you know, these are the areas that are more important at
Tim (01:37:45.055)
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And that's something that I struggle with. And I know when I talked with your brother, it was something that he kind of said he struggles with as well. When you, you can just go so deep down one path that you just have this tunnel vision. And that's probably the thing that I struggle with the most, just having that balance. And I think it gets within discipline. We always think of discipline as
have the discipline to do the thing, like buckle up and like do the thing. I think for people who are very disciplined and are very driven and, you know, have different work or just different projects that they're focused on, you also have to see discipline as having the discipline to step away from the thing at times and let yourself breathe. And like you were saying,
Chris Rinaldi (01:38:39.299)
Yeah.
Tim (01:38:42.911)
focus on those other components that make you who you truly are. And yeah, I think when you become just so obsessed with something, that's the only thing that you focus on, and this is something that I probably struggle with the most, you kind of have diminishing returns on
Chris Rinaldi (01:39:05.855)
Yeah, no, I agree. agree. And for me, like, the biggest thing was finding something else. Like my obsession my whole life was baseball, right? And then like, all of a sudden, baseball is gone. I tried to find other ways to tie baseball into my life that wasn't playing, right? So like I still
give baseball lessons and like coach and I'm moving to Hoboken in like a week and I'm going to try to stay involved hopefully through like Stevens and that program and like just again developing.
in ways that maybe it's not the same vehicle, but the destination and the path is the same. I think that's been key for
Tim (01:40:01.333)
Yeah, a hundred percent. And I guess just one last point I'll say on this, just to like, not to play devil's advocate, but just to bring more color. do think there are parts in your life where to get something off the ground or when you're in that sort of beginning foundation stage, I think you do have to be all in and that's like what your main focus goes to. And then once it starts to be built,
And starts to flourish a little, then that's when you can kind of play around with other components. But I think within that building stage, like you have to be focused on building and you really can't be like building other stuff. Because like when I think also part of the reason why I stopped having such a obsessed focus over working out is because.
with this podcast, like that's where my mindset and energy went into where I'm like, all right, I'm going to shift my sort of like building mentality over that over to the podcast. And like with working out, like that's kind of going to be put on cruise control to a certain extent.
Chris, you have been my longest guest by about 25 minutes and it's been an incredible conversation. feels like we've only been talking for like 15 minutes here. What's the, I've never done this with a guest, but like what's the one overarching point that you'd wanna leave people with?
Chris Rinaldi (01:41:27.547)
I'm honored.
Chris Rinaldi (01:41:43.726)
think it's a tough question. It is a loaded question. Yeah, no, you're firing it right back from the hip. I love it. I would say, honestly...
Tim (01:41:46.369)
It's a loaded question. You gave me a loaded question, so I'm going to give you a loaded question back.
Chris Rinaldi (01:41:59.75)
And this is speaking from experience, because like I said, I'm a little too hard on myself at times, but I'm the first one to make a joke. Like make what you're doing, whether it's you're building something, you're just working towards something, make it fun. Don't take yourself too seriously and like stay true to yourself. And I think you're, you're always going to find yourself on a path to success if you're doing those things.
Tim (01:42:29.919)
Yeah, I love that. What I always tell myself is take what you do seriously, but don't take yourself seriously at
Chris Rinaldi (01:42:38.306)
Yeah, I think it's awesome.
Tim (01:42:40.907)
Chris, appreciate you for coming on the show.
Chris Rinaldi (01:42:44.694)
Of course, yeah, thanks for having me, Tim. This is a blast.
