#036 - Tim Doyle - A Better Way To View Work: Outwork vs. Overwork

In this solo episode I explore the crucial distinction between outworking and overworking – two concepts that sound similar but are fundamentally different. Drawing from personal experience, I discuss how outworking is about making small, sustainable improvements and competing with yourself, while overworking focuses on doing more at any cost. Learn why rest isn't just rest, but an essential part of your work process, and discover how shifting from an overworking to an outworking mindset can lead to better progress in all areas of life.

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Transcript

What’s up outworkers. In this solo episode I explore the crucial distinction between outworking and overworking – two concepts that sound similar but are fundamentally different. Drawing from personal experience, I discuss how outworking is about making small, sustainable improvements and competing with yourself, while overworking focuses on doing more at any cost. Learn why rest isn't just rest, but an essential part of your work process, and discover how shifting from an overworking to an outworking mindset can lead to better progress in all areas of life.

Tim Doyle (00:03.618)

What is going on everyone coming at you with another solo episode. And this is an interesting one because we are going to be talking about the difference between outworking and overworking. Because I think the two terms can be used very similarly or people can think that those two terms can mean a lot of the same things, but

in my experience because I feel like I've done both. feel like there was a part in my life where my mindset was overworking and now my mindset is outworking and those two concepts and philosophies and overall just way of life and way of acting are very, very, very different. And obviously I've branded this podcast around outworking

the out worker. If you follow me on social media, you always see I'm posting, you know, keep out working. And, you know, going back to the very first episode, just talking specifically about what it means to outwork this word outwork, the deeper philosophy behind it. And, you know, I explained the common understanding or the common definition that we have for outworking.

to work harder, faster, longer than someone else. And I've explained how that is completely false. What we're saying with that definition is that, okay, to outwork, then it needs to involve other people. You need to be playing some type of comparison game. You need to be

focusing on somebody else's work as well to see that you are out working that person.

Tim Doyle (02:08.526)

For my definition and feel like the way that I've lived my life is that no, that's not true at all. I believe that the purest form of outworking is a singular internal process where you are trying to outwork or you are trying to improve upon your past self. That is the person that you are comparing yourself to rather than

somebody completely different than you because that is a dangerous game to play if you are constantly trying to outwork other people in that general sense of the word

Tim Doyle (02:53.698)

you will constantly just be playing a comparison game. And I think when I was much younger...

Or I think I have this refined understanding for outworking because probably to a certain extent I live by where I thought about that way of outworking where I was like, I'm trying to try to beat other people. Competition is great. It's very important, but to be solely fixed on that mindset of trying to beat other people.

It's much better just trying to beat yourself and trying to outwork yourself.

So to take things step further.

in a different direction.

Tim Doyle (03:44.674)

this difference between outworking and overworking. I think it's really, really important and there's a lot of differences. And I would say that when I was younger, like I said, I probably lived by that traditional way of outworking, but more so than that.

my mindset and obviously I wouldn't be living by this word overwork but I think my mindset or what I thought I had to be doing was more aligned with what overworking is.

And in my mind, what overworking is, is just the constant belief and feeling that you have to be doing more. You always have to be doing more no matter what. And on top of that, if you aren't doing more, then you won't be making progress. And for me personally, where that mindset really came into play was in the gym.

and with working out and exercise where I felt like I constantly have to be doing more. If I want to make the most progress, I have to be doing more. I have to be lifting more weight. I have to be eating more. Which is true, you have to do that over time. But overworking, I would say, is you're trying to...

Speed up that process as fast as you possibly can you are trying to do more as fast as you possibly can rather than Just focusing on the incremental gains and I think that's the biggest difference between out working and overworking where When you're trying to overwork You're trying to take on So much more than you possibly can there's only so much progress that you can make

Tim Doyle (05:53.09)

day over day.

Tim Doyle (05:57.038)

So I mean for me when I was in the gym it'd be like just using it as an easy example because I feel like it's very quantifiable and very...

relatable. I'd be like, all right, I did.

70 pounds on this exercise, Next week I'm gonna try to do 95 pounds. All right, I ate this amount of food this week. All right, I'm gonna add 500 calories next week.

Tim Doyle (06:34.06)

and I made a lot of mistakes with that type of mindset. So consciously I thought, alright I'm doing more so I'm making more progress. Where in reality, I was doing more.

But what the external output of that was, all right, I'm doing more, but that is creating more mistakes.

So I'm creating something that I will have to do crisis control to a certain extent, or I will have to revert back.

Tim Doyle (07:10.542)

So the work becomes not so much about making progress, but having to undo what I did. Whereas when you're out working and you're just focused on making those very, very small incremental gains day over day, week over week, month over month, you're just slowly making progress. And what I've said before, and I've seen it within my own life,

It will not feel, you will not see, and you will not think like you are making progress day over day because it is so minute, it is so small.

that it just won't feel like anything is changing. But it's about stacking those days. How many days can you stack together where you are just focusing?

on the inputs of whatever it is that you're doing. That is how real progress is made.

Tim Doyle (08:22.818)

and with overworking.

Tim Doyle (08:28.31)

I would feel like I wasn't necessarily just focused on the inputs. It was...

Alright, how can I increase what I am doing as fast as I possibly can? Because if I increase that

that will speed up the rate at which I get an external output from that work. And not just speed it up, but I will get a larger output. And that's just not how things work. Big results do not come from big changes in my mind. Big results come from small

incremental changes and incremental progress day after day.

It's not until you take a step back after years of daily work where you can see that big change, where you look back at a picture or something from a few years ago where you see, wow, there's been a big change here.

Tim Doyle (09:47.054)

So getting deeper into overworking.

Tim Doyle (09:54.496)

and just the mindset or the analogy behind it.

And now I'm just thinking about sort of what my mindset was going back to when I was young. I mean, a young teenager where

I didn't live by it, I was, you know, subconsciously in that overworked type mindset. It felt like I was just.

trying to put my foot on the gas pedal as hard as I possibly can and

wasn't so much focused on the direction or...

Tim Doyle (10:43.765)

speed of which I was going.

because it was like, me just go as fast as I possibly can.

I'll end up at a great spot.

Tim Doyle (11:02.35)

And I think with that type of mindset.

you become more focused on.

the quantity of your effort, how much you are doing.

Tim Doyle (11:17.228)

rather than the quality of effort.

where it's, all right, how am I doing this?

And that is a very rigid, one dimensional way of going about things.

Tim Doyle (11:36.022)

and to use working out.

for further analogy purposes here. I mean, I was definitely overworking in the gym.

I mean, I used to work out six to seven days a week.

I mean, I beat my body up.

And part of the reason why I did do that is because, yes, mean, I've always loved to work out.

Tim Doyle (12:10.894)

But I thought I was like, that's what you have to do. This is what you have to do. But that was an over workers mentality.

And when it comes to outworking, something that I've really, really appreciated and something that I've really, really dedicated myself to and I'm proud to say I have is that when it comes to outworking,

You don't see rest as rest. You see rest as part of the work. And that is such a major, major thing. Rest is not rest. Rest is work. Rest is a part of your process.

And I learned that from the gym and I've brought that into all areas of my life. Rest is your wellbeing and wellbeing is part of your work. Don't see those types of things as slacking or taking time off. All of that goes into your work. And the funny thing is, is that when I started to become really focused,

on rest, recovery, sleep.

Tim Doyle (13:30.838)

more wellness-based activities.

I started to progress more.

Tim Doyle (13:40.748)

And that's where that real shift started to occur where I wasn't overworking anymore and I started to outwork.

because I wasn't just focused on

Tim Doyle (13:56.313)

pushing forward no matter what, no matter what my body was feeling, just keeping the foot on the gas pedal and just going as hard and as fast as I possibly could because I thought that'll just get me to where I'm trying to be that much faster when in reality that is what was holding me back as much as possible.

Tim Doyle (14:20.534)

Outworking is a dance.

And I say it's a dance because a dance still has structure. A dance still has proper moves and proper inputs.

but there's a flow, there's a rhythm.

And there's a creative and artistic component to it.

Tim Doyle (14:53.816)

That makes it look good as well.

Tim Doyle (15:04.514)

Outworking in my mind is just focusing on inputs across the board when it comes to work, when it comes to rest and recovery and well-being.

Tim Doyle (15:21.614)

It's not just about personal progress. It's also about personal well-being. Because when you treat your personal well-being as work...

that also allows your real work.

Tim Doyle (15:42.35)

to progress that much further in my opinion. And I say that because I've seen it within my own life.

Tim Doyle (15:53.08)

Like if I'm not getting enough sleep.

even if I'm not doing the things that...

taking care of myself and my well-being.

then I am not out working.

Tim Doyle (16:13.632)

not out working in the truest sense of the word. Out working isn't just about your given work within your job or some project. It's the full picture of who you are as a person.

Tim Doyle (16:31.63)

because I feel like outworking does have a very rigid component to it. It is very structured, but like I said, it's like a dance.

It shouldn't feel hard to a certain extent. It should feel easy. And that's another interesting component of outworking. And something that I talked about, I posted about it on my Instagram a couple of weeks ago.

Outworking is a very easy, natural process.

And the reason why I say that is because...

It shouldn't feel like...

Tim Doyle (17:16.46)

you're forcing this type of out worker mentality or trying to outwork. And if you are, what I would say is, is that it's not you. It's that you're doing the wrong work.

The work should feel natural to you. It should feel easy and natural to try to improve upon the inputs of what you're doing.

And there have been times in my life where...

I knew it was like, wow, like this current work that I'm doing.

feels more challenging to outwork. Where it feels like...

Tim Doyle (18:04.106)

it's challenging me in the sense of my personal wellbeing and focusing on that part of the picture as well. I was like, maybe this isn't the right work then.

And I think it's important to be honest with yourself there. And I think it's also good to have those types of experiences where you know the difference between, this work feels good and it feels easy to have this type of mindset versus, this work doesn't feel good.

Tim Doyle (18:57.942)

Another major component between overworking and outworking that has really helped me within

my life is that I think when it came to overworking that was also synonymous with

I think when it came to overworking...

That was also synonymous with me trying to work to get to a result or to be able to get to a result as as I possibly could. Because that's the reason why you would overwork. I'm trying to do as much as I possibly can. I'm trying to go as fast as I possibly can. I'm trying to put as much in my back as I possibly can because I'm trying to

get somewhere with this.

Tim Doyle (19:54.018)

you become very results oriented. That's why you want to go fast because you want to get that result as fast as you possibly can.

Tim Doyle (20:03.64)

So just to use the gym and working out again when I was in that over-worker mentality, that mindset.

I gotta lift more faster. I gotta eat more faster. I gotta do all those things because I want to build muscle faster. I was more focused on that end result of I gotta build muscle faster. I gotta, you know, get bigger faster rather than having an outwork mentality where you're solely focused on the inputs.

Tim Doyle (20:41.07)

So what I like to do is...

Tim Doyle (20:45.26)

I always like to...

Tim Doyle (20:50.604)

see where my end result is, where I'm trying to go, and then work my way back from that and break down those inputs that would go into that. So if we use the gem again as an example.

Tim Doyle (21:04.426)

I want to build muscle. Okay, let's reverse engineer that. I want to build muscle. What do I have to do to do that? Okay, I need a workout program. All right, within that workout program.

I'm going to be working out four to five days a week. right. Within a specific workout. These are my specific exercises. Okay. Within that first exercise, this is my starting weight. Okay.

What did I hit for that first weight on that first workout?

Tim Doyle (21:47.31)

Okay, that was my starting weight. All right, now I'm gonna try to increase by that by two and a half pounds on each side every single week. So an extra five pounds each week. And then that's what you become focused on. You become focused on the input. So it's not that I'm necessarily, my goal is to build muscle. My goal is I'm trying to increase five pounds each week.

And that's what the end result looks like for you. You just become so focused on the inputs that the results or the goal of building muscle, that becomes a byproduct of just focusing on the input. If we were to look at, you know, eating food when it comes to building muscle. Okay. Here's my meal plan. I'm going to have, you know, five meals a day.

Okay, well, with a nutrition, I'm just focused on sticking to that meal plan. If I stick to my meal plan, that is the end result that I'm trying to focus on. And then building muscle just becomes a by-product again. Using the podcast for an example as well, you know, all the progress that I made or the mentality that I had built in the gym.

I like, all right, let me use that same type of mentality when it came to outworking for the podcast. And that was the coolest thing is that I never had that type of overworking mentality when it came to the podcast because I knew that was not a smart way of going about things. And I knew I would just be making mistakes or I'd have to do crisis control or have to undo certain things for my work.

Cause that type of mentality would be like, I got, gotta grow this podcast as fast as I possibly can. got to get every single guest as fast as I possibly can, but then having an out worker mentality. So what was my goal for the podcast? Okay. Well, first I want to start a podcast and I want to do an episode every single week.

Tim Doyle (24:03.244)

Or I guess the real goal would be like, okay, I want, I want to grow a podcast. I want to be able to get guests from my podcast. All right, so let's break that down. I'm going to set the goal for myself that I'm going to do a podcast episode every single week where I'm mostly, it's going to be interviewing other people. Okay. Let's break that down again. How am going to get guests? Okay. Well I'm going to do research and then I'm going to email them.

and do cold outreach. Okay, boom. How many people am I going to reach out to on a weekly basis? I don't have a specific number for that, but let's just say, okay, I'm going to reach out to 10 people on a weekly basis who I think I have a pretty good chance of getting on. I'm just going to consistently follow up with them and then boom. So my goal isn't to grow a podcast.

My goal is to focus on the inputs, and the inputs here are...

reaching out to people so that they would agree to come on my show.

Tim Doyle (25:15.618)

just solely focusing on the inputs. Those inputs are reaching out to people through email, doing good research, asking good questions. That's what I tell myself with the podcast. My goal is to ask interesting people interesting questions. And that has nothing to do with some type of external result. And that external result becomes a byproduct rather than what I'm working towards.

Tim Doyle (25:47.01)

And I think that's another main difference. Outworking is about...

what you're willing to give.

and overworking is about what you're trying to get.

Tim Doyle (26:30.262)

Overworking is about going fast. Outworking is about going at a slow, steady pace and just making those small incremental goals.

Tim Doyle (26:45.132)

Remember when I had Bill Schufelt on, co-founder and CEO of Athletic Brewing, he said, I'm really just focused on going 65 miles an hour, very steady. And I thought that was really interesting, just a very steady, boring pace.

Tim Doyle (27:08.066)

Because that's what I've found out about work. Work is about being steady, boring, and consistent. How much do you enjoy the monotony of work? Because I think that's what it takes. Improving upon those inputs on a daily basis and just knowing that that will take you somewhere rather than overworking and trying to always outdo everything.

so that will get you somewhere as fast as you possibly can.

Tim Doyle (27:47.414)

And I think this was an important thing to talk about because I feel like

Tim Doyle (27:55.01)

At least within my own life or when I hear the word outwork, you can have sort of that, not so much negative connotation, but the connotation of

always trying to outdo or you're trying to do more.

Tim Doyle (28:16.932)

And yes, it is that you're trying to do more.

Tim Doyle (28:23.758)

but it's such a slow, gradual process. It's not about trying to do something one day and then the next day you're trying to do that, you know, 1.5 times speed.

It's just a very slow, gradual, monotonous process that you will do day over day, month over month, year over year.

from my own experience.

That is what has been most impactful for me.

And I've learned from my mistakes because like I've said multiple times without me knowing I had that over worker mentality rather than that out worker mentality. And when I shifted from that out worker mentality, I started making more progress by doing less or by doing things in a more refined way and taking my personal wellbeing and my wellness.

Tim Doyle (29:34.678)

into consideration.

And what people have to understand is, you know, by taking a day off, see that as work, see that as improvement, see that as progress.

Tim Doyle (29:53.346)

And what I also...

have brought my mindset into as well that...

Tim Doyle (30:04.352)

If I take one step forward, theoretically speaking, you know, taking one step forward or taking 10 steps forward in one day.

Tim Doyle (30:16.406)

I'm more so focused now on that moving forward rather than the amount of steps.

Tim Doyle (30:25.71)

I'm like, all right, I, you know, I took half a step forward one day, or I took five steps forward the next day. In my mind, I see those both as the same day. Now I'm like, move forward. That's the only thing that matters. As long as I push forward, that's what we're focused on. The amount that it happens to be.

Tim Doyle (30:54.53)

really not what I'm worried about because that's what it used to be. It used to be worry and stress rather than coming from a good place. I didn't do enough today. I didn't get enough done today. Well did you get something done? If you got something done then yeah it was a good day.

Because guess what? The day is already done. So you can't go back and stress over it as much. Just make sure maybe the next day, all right, I am going to get more done. That's just about moving forward, sticking to the plan, sticking to the inputs.

and keep out working.

Tim Doyle (31:38.604)

hope you enjoyed this episode on me explaining the

my new differences here between outworking and overworking.

Tim Doyle (31:55.618)

And I mean, outworking is just about working freely as well. That's an, could be another interesting episode actually. And some that I've talked about on the podcast, I have so with Grace, whether my mindset isn't so much about working hard anymore. It's about working freely because I feel like when you work hard, obviously working hard is very important. When you work hard, you get

At in my mind, you get very tense. It feels very rigid. feels very fixed. But working freely, like I said, it's that dance. It's letting the work flow through you. It's having the work push you forward rather than you feeling like you always need to be the one pushing forward.

And my mindset has definitely shifted over the years when it has come to work.

Tim Doyle (32:56.678)

And I think this is another interesting component to add onto this whole philosophy behind outworking and what it means to outwork. Where it's not just about the work itself, but it's about all components of who you are as a person, your personal well-being, your wellness, and not so much just about the specific work.

we think of. So with that I will see you in the next episode. Keep outworking.