The Outworker
Stories of healing, personal development, and inner work. Founded on the idea that the relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect, The Outworker shares conversations aimed at helping you develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#038 - Ray Zahab - Breaking Habits, Beating Cancer, & Becoming Your Best Self
From smoking two packs of cigarettes a day to ultra-marathon greatness, Ray Zahab's journey is a testament to human resilience. In this episode, Ray shares his transformation from an unhealthy lifestyle to becoming an extraordinary endurance athlete who has run across the Sahara and faced extreme challenges—including battling cancer. Hear how patience, perseverance, and a willingness to push beyond perceived limitations can completely reshape who we can truly become.
Timestamps:
00:00 Smoking 2 Packs Of Cigarettes A Day
04:07 Quitting Smoking
06:08 Getting 1st Place In 1st Race
06:27 Receiving & Believing Your Greatness
10:10 Running Across The Sahara Desert
12:27 Nutrition & Fuel Running The Sahara
15:00 Diagnosed With Cancer
18:35 Near Death Experience
22:16 Who You Want To Become
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What’s up outworkers. From smoking two packs of cigarettes a day to ultra-marathon greatness, Ray Zahab's journey is a testament to human resilience. In this episode, Ray shares his transformation from an unhealthy lifestyle to becoming an extraordinary endurance athlete who has run across the Sahara and faced extreme challenges—including battling cancer. Hear how patience, perseverance, and a willingness to push beyond perceived limitations can completely reshape who we can truly become.
Tim Doyle (00:08.683)
From the outside looking in, think the more we accomplish, the more we're differently than the person that we were at the start of our journey, where we can see that very slow progression over time into the person we become. I think other people really only see who we are in the present version and our most evolved and accomplished version of ourselves. And you've accomplished some.
incredible things in your life. But honestly, I'm more interested in who Ray Zahab used to be. And that's where I'd like to start. So you started smoking cigarettes at a very young age at 15 years old, and you got to the point where you were smoking a pack to two packs a day. What was your introduction to smoking like at such a young age?
Ray Zahab (00:51.13)
Mm-hmm.
Ray Zahab (01:03.247)
I mean, in one sentence, it's, you know, I look at a million people my age, you know, we were smoking in the, I hate to say it was eighties and the seventies. mean, that's ridiculous. That was more than eighties. But, you know, it just was something that I would say a lot of people my age were doing back then. So we were partying and, you know, smoking and, you know, yeah, I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day at like my max. And if I was
out drinking, which was often. Then you'd smoke two packs a day, you'd have a pack of the bar, right, drinking pints. So, you know, that was just one piece of it. I mean, that's the physical aspect of being unhealthy, right? I mean, I was, you know, physically a very unhelpful person that way, not realizing perhaps maybe there were moments, but for the most part, not realizing how unhealthy and how I was polluting my body. And it wasn't until I had this realization
in my late 20s that I was no longer satisfied with where my life was going or the lack of what I was doing. It's all pre-social media, Tim. It's all pre-instantaneous news. It's pre-instantaneous everything at your fingertips. This was the time when, you know, there was paper newspapers and there was, you know, if you wanted to see some really cool photos, you know, the internet was just starting.
of thing. Really, it was just becoming a big thing. So to gain inspiration, sure, you'd surf the web a little bit, but you watch TV and or you'd gain inspiration from the people that you know, in your life. And I'm very fortunate that I have a younger brother who's an incredible endurance athlete, strength coach and all the rest of it. And he got me into the sports that I love. And as a matter of fact, he got me into I was an ice climber and a mountain biker be an adventure racer before I was a runner.
So it's interesting how we start these things. And the reason I took that leap into doing the things he was doing is because I just wanted to do something different with my life. And here was this person who was doing incredible things that was like himself at one time was a smoker, quit smoking, got really healthy, started doing all these really cool things and was super confident in himself. And I thought, wow, if I could be a little bit like him, I think my life, my life would be on a different path.
Ray Zahab (03:29.103)
I feel better about everything and I have to live for. And so if I bought me the joke, if he was a carpenter, you and I would be talking about how to build a house today, right? But he was an outdoorsman. And so that's what I started doing.
Tim Doyle (03:42.323)
It took you three years to fully quit smoking. What did that process look like?
Ray Zahab (03:48.465)
Yeah, I mean, trying, failing, trying, failing. I mean, that's pretty much what what that process was. I, you know, anything did I spent the first 30 years or so of my life talking myself out of doing things that were difficult or trying new things for fear of failure or what other people would think. So
That process, that through your process with me trying to convince myself that I could do something, but it was just always easier to slip back into the life that you know. And then eventually one day I was like, no, you know what, I'm all in. And if I want to get better at these things, like riding a mountain bike up a hill, I got to like really clean up the way I treat my body. And that was like, that was it. And the pivotal moment was when my brother actually took me on an epic ice climb. And I was like, I couldn't believe that I was physically able to do this thing.
and I just wanted to do it more. And because of that, I had to change my lifestyle. And it was the instant, too. It was the instant. I went from boom to 180 degree change.
Tim Doyle (04:53.505)
So your evolution of a person really takes place with physical endurance and endurance racing in 2004, where you complete the Yukon Arctic 100 mile ultra. But on top of that, you also got first place in that race. And when you got first place, that was quickly followed up with imposter syndrome and you questioning the fact that you actually did get first. And I think that's something that we all deal with.
where it's very challenging for people to be open to receiving and believing their greatness. How do you think we can get past that?
Ray Zahab (05:37.234)
That's an interesting question. You know, before I did that first ultra, which was incidentally my first running race, I'd never done a running race before that I'd race bikes all over. It racing mountain bikes. 24 hour World Championships, I did all kinds of adventure races. But that race, and what it was point A to point B, 100 miles, first one across finish line, I thought like I'm not that
I'm not that guy. Like I've never won anything like that ever. Like why would and I think that when we have a sense of a lack of self confidence or we're not willing to see or believe that each and every one of us has that capacity to do extraordinary things in our lives, which is something I believe we do now, then I didn't or I didn't know that we did. If you can't see it, it's hard to believe it.
Right? We live in a society where you need to see it to believe there's got to be a video or you don't believe it. And that we believe video, but AI and all the rest of it, right? So you really have to look inside and go on gut and feel and believe that you can step outside the boundaries of what is a perceived normal limitation in your life, you know, and
Over the years I've been inspired by so many different people and so many...
you know, moments that have proven to me the capacity of human spirit. So fast forward through all the ultra marathons I did, then I ran across the Sahara, 111 days, 7,500 kilometers with two buddies. And at the end of that, I truly understood that it wasn't about us, the three of us doing this amazing thing. It was the fact that
Ray Zahab (07:36.188)
It proved to me human beings in general have no limits to what they're capable of. And I think that in the pursuit of that is where the true greatness lies. It's trying and having setbacks, learning from it and carrying forward. Could you think about it, Think about it. Life is a start point and an end point. One thing's for certain. You don't remember the start point, but you know,
definitively happened. You have no idea when the endpoint is coming. You cannot predict what is going to happen. So you have to be willing and able to put it all out there.
in your life if you want to pursue things that will make you feel like you've done the best you can while you have time on the planet.
Tim Doyle (08:28.363)
Going back to what I said at the start of our conversation, how when we see other people, we see that most accomplished, evolved version of themselves. And we see that as different, be like, look at how great that person is. You have to see where that person started at the beginning of the journey, how they struggled, how they had that same sort of self doubt and not being able to believe or accept their greatness.
And getting further into your greatness and something that you just mentioned there running across the entire Sahara desert. Talk to me about how there would be days where you'd have to run east west rather than north south. And you weren't technically actually moving any closer to the end point.
Ray Zahab (09:13.459)
Well, was the other way around. So we were going west to east. And there was days, many days where we were going south to north, get through Libya and to the Egyptian border. And in those days, technically speaking, you're gaining very little on that Eastern point. And so you put me in these huge days, you'd be thinking, shit, we're not getting anywhere, you know. But big picture.
you are getting somewhere, right? And there's a lesson in that, that those days when you're spinning your wheels will pay dividends later. And it's exactly, it's like I have buddies, a very good friend of mine, who I went to the South Pole with. He's probably, his name's Richard Weber. He's one of the greatest living explorers on the planet. In my mind, the greatest. And he was telling me about his journeys to the North Pole.
And the North Pole, the South Pole is on land. It's a sheet of ice on land. It's not moving, least not quickly, right? It's spreading into the ocean, but you know, whatever. The North Pole is ice on the ocean. It's just open ocean. And so it's moving with current, that ice pack. And he would tell me about days where he'd be just going as hard as he could towards the North Pole and he'd drift back. And he'd be getting up the next day and he'd drift back. It was like, shit, but he never gave up.
And before I ran across the Sahara, remember him telling me those stories. So in a way, I was mentally prepared for the drift back, like what our drift back looked like, but it happens.
Tim Doyle (10:56.705)
think that's so fascinating how there are some times where you have to move horizontally just to get into the position where you can move vertically and actually progress and it'll feel like you're not actually making progress but you're just setting yourself up for that moment where you do finally progress. You went from 162 pounds to 119 pounds when you were running across the Sahara
What did that process look like from a nutrition and fueling standpoint, just trying to stay as nourished as you possibly could.
Ray Zahab (11:30.934)
Of the 40 plus expeditions I've done, it was probably the most supported that we've ever been. So we had amazing crew led by Mohammed Iksa and his family and friends and they would cook and we had good food. mean the Tuareg baked the most amazing bread you've ever had in your life. you know, we were eating an abundance of food, but it was never enough calories. It just wasn't. And so you do waste away doing something like that, but it's incremental.
So by the time it's all over, you're like, my God, where did I go? Right? I've been on other expeditions where there is no food or you run out of food. You trips that I've done that have been really difficult where, you know, you physically plan as well as you possibly can, but the environmental conditions are so difficult that, you know, it makes for progression.
like your body sustaining itself very difficult. So here's the thing, out of the 40 plus trips that I've done, every one of them are difficult in one stage or another. But if it was, I just made a post about this yesterday on my Instagram. If it wasn't difficult, would we do it? I mean, would we really be interested? And we're choosing to do it. So why complain about it? Right? So
Yeah, for sure. Early days in the Sahara, I did lots of complaining because it was painful. It was hard. I'd never done anything that long. It was my first major expedition. But subsequent to that, I learned that, hey, I chose to be out here. I do this for my living. I'm so fortunate. The price of admission is pain sometimes. The price of admission is getting beat down. But being out there and doing that thing that makes me feel the most alive, you have to have a patience in it.
And I'll go to a punchline here. But all these years, so combine lots of experience in the field doing coldest places on earth, hottest places on earth, doing expeditions, crossing almost every large desert on the planet. And then doing all these things in Siberia, you learn things. And at the same time, in order to do all those things, you get older. So I'm getting older, right? As I age, and I have all this experience, I went into
Ray Zahab (13:50.424)
or was diagnosed with a form of blood cancer two years ago. Had to go through chemo. as I was going through, before I went through chemo, I felt like a bag of shit. Like the type of cancer that I have attacks your body's ability to create red blood cells. So to go and do what I do, forget it, I could make it to the end of my lane way without dasping for air. Then to go into chemo and monoclonal therapy for six months. learn, for starters, I never stopped.
During those six months, would spend, had 25 days in between chemo sessions, I would get myself in the best shape I possibly could, and would go do something. Like I'd do something with my daughters, or go on travel, or do a mini expedition. I would just do things that were still challenging in order to get myself fit for the next thing. I'm getting to my point. But overarching that six months of chemo, going into it, I was super mentally prepared for it, dude. I was like, look it, gotta be patient. Drifting back on the ice, right?
Gotta be patient, gotta do this process, gotta do this thing. And all you can hope for is to come out the other end better than you were going in. That's all you can hope for. You're not dead. So all you can hope for is to get to the other end and be better. And all the experience on Expedition, the drifting back, the running north, all that stuff prepared me to be something that I am absolutely not in my daily life, which is patient. And I had to be patient and believe in the process like on an Expedition.
to get through it. But you learn things with time, and experience.
Tim Doyle (15:23.839)
Why do you think you struggle to be patient in your daily life?
Ray Zahab (15:27.083)
just the way I'm hardwired, you know?
Tim Doyle (15:33.429)
Getting deeper into your chemotherapy and dealing with cancer, how important was it that your doctors were also endurance athletes themselves and they understood your way of life and your work?
Ray Zahab (15:48.909)
Well, my yeah, my diagnosing physician, hevatologist, she's a runner, she understands what I do. And then she knew about my running journeys and all that stuff. And then my treating oncologist, just an amazing guy. That's it, you know, as family understands, you know, active lifestyle as a family and doing
things together, wanting to be healthy. Is a real outdoorsy person that's in the outdoor sports understands what I do, right? And so I got very lucky. You know I mean? I got really lucky because they understood me from the minute I walked through the door. And I always say like, the doc I have, he was like a friend.
It's I was so lucky to meet this person who literally in parentheses saved my life. I wasn't going to die, but save my life because they gave me my life back. You know, and my ability to do things I do. And I'm running now at 55 on the trails behind my house. And I'm running as fast as I was when I was 35. So I mean, what the hell? Maybe I was never fast.
Tim Doyle (17:12.053)
When on an expedition, you've said that not only are you learning about that environment and how to survive, you're learning about yourself. And obviously cancer can be a very stressful and scary environment to be in, but getting deeper into an expedition of yours that is also scary to think of. So in 2018, you're trying to make your way up the NACVAC brook and the ice breaks.
beneath you and you fall into the water. What did you learn about yourself after that experience?
Ray Zahab (17:48.043)
Think that was 2017 or 2016. Anyhow, doesn't matter. That was the first part of a three part expedition where I was moving across three parts of the Canadian Arctic with my teammate Stefano from Italy. And we were moving using different traditional modes of moving on the land on snow, snowshoe, then ski, and then fat bike, which is not so traditional, but whatever. you know, long story short,
you know, almost dying, you know, breaking through this ice. Yeah, it taught me in that moment. You know, first of all, once again, I was able to take all the skills all the learning I was fully prepared for. Yep, if I could get myself out of the ice, which I did, I was fully prepared to add all the gear in my slide. We were unsupported to take
that I had all the extra clothing, I had the things that I needed. And I'm like, shit, finally, I've been dragging this shit all over the Arctic with me for years, I'm finally using it. And it taught me to
in that moment, because again, this is many years before cancer, it taught me that the people that are the closest around me, it might like my family, my very close friends, that what I thought was important in my life, the other things, the extraneous information, the less those relationships that perhaps weren't as important to cherish truly those daily moments, right? They're so small, you don't even notice them, but they're little positive things that happen.
I'm a real coffee person. love coffee. Like making a great espresso. I know that sounds like a coffee stop. can say, but I'm saying it, but it out there, but making a good espresso and it like turning out really good because I love coffee and being like, you know what? That's awesome. Or, know, your kids are in a good mood that day or whatever. Like, you know, everybody's stoked and you have good a great meal. You make a great meal. Like celebrating those moments and focusing on those on a day to day basis with clarity.
Ray Zahab (19:53.327)
I think is what I learned the most from that trip.
Tim Doyle (19:58.047)
I know your expeditions can take a long time to plan out, whether it be a year or up to four years. When something like that happens, are you able to get back to the plan that you have planned out and execute on that? Or does something like that happen? And then it's almost like you have to go on the fly and create a new plan on the fly.
Ray Zahab (20:17.211)
In that case, create a new plan on the floor to keep going. And I ended up completing that expedition. was a disaster. Frostbite everything. Completed that the second two pieces of that expedition. Out of 40 trips, I've had four or five go sideways where they just don't end the way you want to. But, you know, a buddy of mine, he as well has a podcast like yours. He was interviewing me one time and he said, you know, there's no fail. only a first attempt in learning. was like, that's brilliant and that.
And the trips that I have not completed, that's taken years to plan. And they don't go the way I want to tons of money invested, training, everything. Am I going to be upset? Well, of course, you're going to be bummed because you didn't achieve your goal. But I learn more from that shit than I do from the ones that I succeed at necessarily joining those ones that you fail at make you harder.
The ones you succeed at give you tools. So that's been my experience.
Tim Doyle (21:21.227)
know you like to keep your cards close to the chest when...
Ray Zahab (21:24.985)
Not telling you what's next. Stay tuned.
Tim Doyle (21:28.218)
I've heard you talk a lot about that, how you like to keep your cards close to the chest when...
Ray Zahab (21:32.175)
Yeah, it's just it's not that it's like a secret who cares what I'm doing. But at the end of the day, it's just because I'm superstitious.
Tim Doyle (21:39.145)
Yep, completely understand that. And I feel like I'm the exact same way where it's more so just let the work speak for itself and you see what comes along the way. The question I have for you though is who do you want to continue to become as a person?
Ray Zahab (21:56.604)
But you know, first and foremost is to improve in an evolving way as a dad. I mean, that's that's the path forward, right? You know, I love my daughters are getting older 1613. They're both great athletes. My older one is incredible spring kayaker and biathlete and they're both runners. My my young one is an incredible trail runner.
and just seeing them do things and us standing out and doing things together as a family. We've always had family adventure every year, the four of us go and we go and do something. But now, you know, I'm also doing one-on-one trips with them. I'm leaving tomorrow with my oldest one and we're gonna go just do some trail running down south in the desert and stuff. And so just getting out on adventures with my family and seeing them become more more comfortable in the back country making, like we do big trips together, big trips. I'd like to do some big Arctic trips with them and stuff like that in the future.
Tim Doyle (22:55.753)
Ray, where can people go to connect with you and see more of your work?
Ray Zahab (22:59.921)
You know what everybody's on social media these days, Ray Zahab on Instagram. I have a website, Rayzahab.com. All the links are in my bio, in my Instagram to everything I'm doing with Impossible to Possible, which you and I didn't get into today, but easy for people to research. And Capric One, my guiding company. just go to my Instagram, the links are there on that little link thing at the bottom.
Tim Doyle (23:22.163)
Ray, appreciate you for coming on the show.
Ray Zahab (23:24.786)
Thanks, Tim.
