The Outworker
Stories of healing, personal development, and inner work. Founded on the idea that the relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect, The Outworker shares conversations aimed at helping you develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#044 - James Brackin IV - Embracing Presence & Letting Go Of Limiting Beliefs
James Brackin IV dives into his journey from grappling with mortality and physical pain to discovering the power of presence. He shares profound insights on living fully today and shifting from chasing future goals to appreciating the passing of time. We also explore the wisdom of unlearning limiting beliefs and the importance of creative outlets in a world driven by consumption. Tune in to uncover how embracing uncertainty and grounding yourself in the present is the key to getting to where you’re trying to go.
Timestamps:
00:00 Relationship With Mortality
01:40 Exposed To More Feminine Energy As A Kid
03:15 Relationship With Physical Pain
05:36 Struggles With Mental Health
09:23 What's The Story You Tell Yourself?
11:03 Starting With Solo Podcasts
13:31 Deeper Reasoning Behind 'You Can Too'
16:53 Finding Male Role Models In Podcasting
18:19 Humanizing World Changing Individuals
19:46 Being A Generalist & A Constant Curiosity
21:20 Asking Specific Questions vs. Recurring Questions
23:05 Healing vs. Recovery
26:28 Enjoying The Passing Of Time
30:05 Find A Game You Want To Play
32:09 New Found Creativity
34:38 Coaching Others
38:56 Bringing Your Unique Gifts Into The World
40:24 Problems Replace Problems
42:57 More Vision Focused Than Strategic
45:00 Not A Better Version, But A Completely Different Person
45:56 What Do You Need To Do This Week?
46:44 Connecting With James
Thank you so much for listening. I truly appreciate your time and support. Let me know what you thought of the episode and what you would like to see in the future. Any feedback would be awesome. Don't forget to subscribe for more exciting content on YouTube, and leave a review on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever platform you are listening on.
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What’s up outworkers. James Brackin dives into his journey from grappling with mortality and physical pain to discovering the power of presence. He shares profound insights on living fully today and shifting from chasing future goals to appreciating the passing of time. We also explore the wisdom of unlearning limiting beliefs and the importance of creative outlets in a world driven by consumption. Tune in to uncover how embracing uncertainty and grounding yourself in the present is the key to getting to where you’re trying to go.
Tim Doyle (00:06.801)
I want to start by talking about a pretty deep topic actually. And that's your relationship with mortality because I think that that's an important foundation to who you are as a person in the work that you do. You almost died when you were born and you had a hole in your heart and you needed five blood transfusions. And then your dad and uncle both passed away when they were 37, when you were a young kid.
Your grandfather died the year he was supposed to retire. You also have a couple of tattoos on your right calf, a more fatty and memento mori. How has death shaped who you are as a person and the way you view the world?
James (00:56.76)
Yeah, it's a great question. Love that you know I have it on my right tap, my right calf too. Sometimes I even forget. Yeah, man, mortality has been everything really. Because I think a lot of us make decisions based off of what we feel in the moment. And I think my decisions have always been based off of how am I going to feel about it when I'm 80 or when I'm 70 or at end of my life. I'm going to wish that I said, I'm glad I did, not I wish I had.
And so a lot of the things, we were just talking about it before this, a of the things that you say yes to, just say yes without any expectation, without knowing what it's going to turn into, without having any idea of what's going to come of it. And I think pretty much every decision I've ever made, I just did it because it felt like it was in true alignment with what I was supposed to do.
Tim Doyle (01:47.697)
How do you think being exposed to more feminine energy rather than masculine energy as a young kid has shaped yourself as an adult now?
James (01:59.106)
Yeah, I think it was even more prominent when I went to Hawaii last year. I went for about four months and Kauai is a really feminine energy from everyone that I've been able to speak to that before I even went there. And then when I went there, it was even more than I thought. Like when you live in New York or you live in Austin as you're going to, it's so fast paced, like everything is going on at once and there's a million different things going on. When I was in Hawaii, I'd say that, all right, we're gonna go surf at three. People are showing up at like five.
because that's just, they're so on like island timing and they're so relaxed and just not in a rush. And I think being there specifically really helped me realize that I think a lot of the time I'm in a rush, a lot of people are in a rush, especially in this game of trying to do as much as we can and build these businesses and grow our podcasts and do all this different kind of stuff. It's really easy to be in a rush. And I think that experience definitely grounded me. I don't think I realized it growing up, but that definitely did.
Tim Doyle (02:56.539)
When do you think that really set in with you as an adult where you had a conscious realization of that different type of energy?
James (03:05.474)
I'd say when I got into coaching and when I got into podcasting, it was definitely prominent. But I think when I felt it like viscerally in my body, I would say it was when I was in Hawaii and when I was in Costa Rica earlier this year as well. Just I think when I'm by myself in a place where my feet are literally on the ground, it's really hard not to.
Tim Doyle (03:22.651)
So similar to mortality, your relationship with pain and physical pain, a much more, I think, concrete feeling and structure. When you were younger, you tore your labrum in your shoulder and needed surgery. And the year before that, you had six stitches and three pins put into your wrists. And the year before that, you also broke your pinky. So I've gone through a lot of physical pain.
What insights do you think you've learned about yourself through your relationship with physical pain and those experiences?
James (04:00.128)
I heard something earlier this year when I was listening to a book called Why Buddhism is True. When I was listening to it, they spoke about how, you think about your teeth, right? If you're just going through your day, you're not thinking about your teeth. You're not even conscious that they're there. But if you have a toothache, you're really aware that your teeth are hurting. Like you know that your teeth are there too. Like it's very obvious that your teeth are there when your teeth are hurting. And I think in pain, in life, it goes the same way. Pain is so...
associated with our identify our identification with the pain. And so I didn't realize it definitely when I was growing up, I think it definitely taught me a lot about really appreciating the value of not being sick of being healthy. Like, when a person is sick, they have one problem when they're not sick, they have a million, right? But I don't think we really put that into perspective until we go through those experiences. But when I heard that phrase that way about the tooth thing, it was like, wow, yeah, like almost every single pain that I've ever dealt with became
more painful just because I was identifying with that pain. And so trying to occupy myself out of doing other things and just trying not to associate myself with that pain so much has really helped.
Tim Doyle (05:08.825)
Yeah, it's powerful. mean, I've dealt with a lot of physical pain within my life, which I think is whenever I hear someone going through injuries or anything, I'm curious to know how they relate to it. And I recently had a conversation with somebody who asked, know, like, what was the feeling like of not being in physical pain anymore? And I thought about it for a second. And I was like, the feeling is you don't feel anything actually, because you're just in the moment and you're
James (05:29.006)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (05:38.809)
your mind is quiet and you just don't feel anything on a different note to that when you do feel stuff and it's not necessarily physical because I think when it's physical, you can align with it very concretely and you know what the problem is getting into the mental side of things. When you were a teenager, you struggled with your mental health. What did your experiences look like with everything there? You know, what were your lowest points in
James (05:42.061)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (06:08.101)
What did the process look like for working through everything?
James (06:11.95)
Yeah, that's a big question. I'd say COVID was for a lot of people, think it was really, I wouldn't say detrimental to our mental health, but it definitely made us go inward a lot. And so I'm definitely grateful for it, but there was definitely moments in my life where I didn't want to wake up the next day, for sure. And I think a lot of people go through that, whether they define it as depression or anxiety or whatever they want to define it as. I just went through a lot of my childhood feeling as though I had people around me, but I felt so alone. Like I felt like,
just the overarching doom was just on top of me. Like when I lost family members, felt like the way that I was pictured in, it's a weird framing of it, but I felt like I was under a pile of clothes and like clothes just kept getting piled on top of me. Like life was just piling thing after thing after thing and I just, I was just laying under it, just letting it happen. So I think the ways that I overcame it were really just being proactive about not letting myself get.
stuck in those cycles of allowing myself to be that way or seeing myself that way. I think a lot of it was really questioning my beliefs about myself, about the world, about what I felt to be true. And that's why the core of my podcast is unlearning because so much of it was like this idea. It's not like I needed to become anything more. It's not like had to do anything. I didn't have to add and have it or I needed to add anything to my life. It was more so I needed to subtract a lot of things that I thought were true. And I think that's for most of us for sure. just, mean, the new year just came around. Everyone's thinking of, I need to add this. I need to do that. I want to go here.
It's like, what do you need to let go of? And I think in the world of consumerism, it's really hard to think that way. I think it's been the helpful approach for me, for sure.
Tim Doyle (07:44.955)
You initially had the mindset with your mental health problems, like, people have it way worse than me. My problems don't matter. And I think I struggled with that as well when I was younger, where we discount what we're feeling or what we're going through, not so much because we're trying to numb it, but more so just, I guess, like put a positive spin on things or like, there's a lot more bigger problems in the world than just what I'm going through. How did you allow yourself to get to a point where you could actually feel what you were feeling?
James (08:15.19)
I think it was when I first had someone reflect to me back how important it was. When I hired my first coach, it made me realize how much I just shit on myself, honestly. How just so mean I was to myself. I think a lot of entrepreneurs especially are really just not nice to themselves. Like their relationship with themselves is the worst one. The amount of people that I've had on the podcast, I'll say last year, because we're started the year, that have worked with people that are
billionaires and just had done exceptional things. I have a billionaire coming on next week. And he's at his two lowest points in his life, where the first time he sold his first company, and when he sold all of his companies, when he sold 76, or I think 86 companies, dude's a billionaire. And those lowest moments were at the highest moments of his life. And so I've seen it time and time again where the happiness doesn't come from any kind of material things. It comes from just having a space for where you feel seen.
And when I hired my first coach and when I've hired coaches ever since and just even just having people around you that make you feel seen and appreciated and help you recognize and kind of notice your blind spots, but also help you kind of gain some compassion and empathy for yourself. And I think that was, that's really big. Cause sometimes people just don't feel like they have an outlet for that.
Tim Doyle (09:30.159)
you had the realization that I'm not the story I tell myself about who I am. And I believe we don't always choose what happens, but we choose the why behind why we choose the why behind what does happen. As time has gone on, do you feel like you've created a story for yourself or have a story for yourself that is more beneficial to you and works in your favor?
James (09:56.078)
would say yeah. I would also say that I try not to...
I try to limit the stories I make in general. Because it kind goes back to that pain aspect of things. When you're thinking about a story, even if it's helpful, you're still attached to that story. And so it's hard to go away from that. So a lot of the time I just try to, I wouldn't say disassociate, because that's not the word I'm thinking of, but just kind of.
Try not to think too much about it. as I would assume from what we've been able to speak and the conversations I've heard, you're similar to me in a sense that that's all we do is think. And so like trying to stop that, it's not exactly trying to stop it, but just think about different things. Try not to associate myself too much, because we get way too consumed with ourselves.
Tim Doyle (10:41.443)
Yeah, I completely agree with that because I've, I've had a lot of people on who I would say are very story-based with their life or they have some type of remarkable experience or some type of massive challenge that they've overcome. But I think what I try to stress or bring out in the conversation is like, okay, like you're more than just your story. Like you have an ongoing life rather than just this experience that has happened to you.
in the past and getting deeper into your podcast now, because obviously you're a young guy with your experiences with pain and your relationship with mortality. I think there's a lot of material there that can be good when it comes to podcasting and you put that wisdom to use and you have a great show, the you can to podcast. And I think the thing that I find most interesting about
the podcasting space nowadays is that it's very collaborative, whether it's interview based or you have co-hosts. And I think people just assume that if you have a podcast and involves multiple people, what I find most interesting about your show is that the first 101 episodes were completely alone, just you. What did you learn about yourself through doing those 101 episodes? Just
solo.
James (12:11.33)
Yeah, yeah, in my car too. Like no mic, I didn't even have a microphone, dude. I was recording on a laptop, just hoping that the quality was good, because I'm sitting in my car. Yeah, man, I had a, do you know who Case Kenny is by chance? I had him on last year, he said, because his podcast is like a public journal as well, and just completely solo.
And when he said public journal, was like, wow, that's exactly what I was doing. I was learning, was coaching, was hiring coaches. It was like start of my journey of like going down this path. And I was just like spitting out all the things that I felt like I needed to learn myself, to relearn myself, and then also what I hope would be some kind of value to someone else. so, and I think a lot of people like they stop themselves from putting stuff out there because they're like, well, I'm not.
who am I to say this or who am I to say that? But I think every single person has something to give into the world. You do a disservice by not bringing that into the world. And so my thought was, I have no expectation. have nothing attached to this. I don't care if one person listens or a billion people listen. I'm getting something out of this too. And I think that that was the value of it. And it was also, every single week you were getting an episode and that was like a reputation with myself. I was building up, this is the kind of person that I am. And 270 something episodes later, like,
that is who I see myself as. And so I think more than anything, it was just like a building block into what I do today and also just helping me kind of create that perspective of who I wanted to be.
Tim Doyle (13:40.525)
One of the reasons why you didn't make the name of your show, the James Bracken podcast is because you wanted to put other people at the center, whether it's your guests or the people listening. You can too certainly does convey that, but how are you the original listener to that in it to a degree by using you can too as an affirmation to yourself.
James (14:05.654)
Yeah, I mean, every single one of us grows up with limiting beliefs. We may not be aware of them, they may control our lives, honestly. And for me, that was definitely for sure. I didn't even see how it was hurting me, but it was controlling my life, all of the beliefs I had about myself, about what I thought was possible. I mean, we see every single day, we see people struggle, and then we see people doing expansive things in the world that we couldn't possibly imagine. And I always thought,
I mean, I didn't have role models growing up, but I had people doing, I had people around me and I saw what I didn't want. And so for me it was just kind of this affirmation I told myself, unconsciously really, I didn't really notice I was doing it, to kind of reaffirm that, hey, someone else has done this thing, and even if someone hasn't done this thing, there has to be someone that's gonna do the thing before someone says that you can do the thing. Like every single thing that has ever happened,
The example I always love to use, like the computer I'm speaking to you on, I have no idea how this works by any means, and it still blows me away that we're able to have this conversation. And the fact that you know I have a tattoo on my leg because you've heard a conversation that I've made before, or an episode I made, it's like that would not happen if someone wasn't crazy enough to think that they could create something where we could be able to do this. And I think every single thing that has ever happened in the world has come from someone being crazy enough to think so.
And so I think that that's what I wanna do. I wanna help people unlearn these limiting beliefs that stop us from expanding this world. We've done some incredible things in this world as much as there's a lot of negative things going on nowadays, but I don't think people understand how unlimited we really are and how expansive we really can be in this world and how good life can really get. And so that's what I really wanna do for people is just expand their mind.
Tim Doyle (15:47.633)
two points going off that one of my favorite books, if not my most favorite book is shoe dog by Phil Knight and he chronicles the entire story of building Nike and that's a dream guest of mine. I don't think he's ever done a podcast. I think the guy's podcast less. But I love that book because it builds off of what you're saying. He was like, this is young kid who just had the thought and the dream. want to sell sneakers.
James (15:55.278)
Mm.
James (16:03.029)
I don't think so either.
James (16:17.25)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (16:17.389)
Nike's this massive billion dollar empire brand in the world. But it started with that one young kid who's just like, I want to do this. And that's why I always try to tell myself. And I think more people need to think like that is like anything that is big was one small. And another point going off of that, I have a photo on my phone. I saw this newspaper article from like a while back in the head.
headline was like, can small guy Walmart hang with the big guys? And it was, the article was written when like Walmart like had just started. And like, when you think of that mindset of like, Walmart being the small guy, it's like, like anything that was once big was once small and getting bigger, getting deeper into the role model component. Like you said, you really didn't have many male role models growing up within your life. When it comes to podcasting,
James (17:03.63)
Mm-mm.
Tim Doyle (17:17.115)
How has that allowed you to find some more external male role models within the
James (17:23.404)
Yeah, it's been great. I'd say even like, guests that I've had on or people that I listen to, Chris Williamson and Rick. Wow, Rick, I'm thinking Rick Rubin, but I'm also thinking Rich Roll. Yeah, I was like, what? I'm like, I know it's not. Hold on. Yeah, like those are three that I absolutely love. People that I love listening to and three dream guests for the podcast and then for the show too. I really not, I try not to think of people as role models because I've met a lot of my heroes that are not.
Tim Doyle (17:36.261)
Rich roll.
James (17:52.675)
people that I look up to anymore. And so I know that every single person has a dark side to them. Every single person has a part of themselves that they don't want the world to see and a part of themselves that they don't show the world. And so I've met a lot of people that I once looked up to that I no longer look up to. And so it's definitely helped grounded me in myself and helped me even think bigger about who I am as a person. And yeah, putting the pedestal or putting other people on pedestals for the podcast, but not like in life. And I think a lot of us do that for sure. We put other people on pedestals.
and then we see ourselves as a person that's not capable or almost there. And so I think it's definitely just helped me kind of have more belief in myself for sure.
Tim Doyle (18:32.037)
humanizing world-changing individuals.
James (18:35.16)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (18:36.901)
Was that always the thought process when you started interviewing people or when did that, like you were just saying, really get concretized within your mindset with the podcast.
James (18:46.71)
Yeah, I think inadvertently for sure. Because I mean, in the thought process of UCan too, it's helping bring down these people of like, okay, this is the kind of person, I'm not that kind of person. And so it's like bringing these people down into like, okay, let's get into some real things that you don't usually talk about because a lot of people need to realize every single person is a person. We put our pants on the same way. And a mindset that I've taken on last year, I wanna say that I really heard it was,
Everyone is living life for the first time. And so when we see other people and we put them on pedestals, like they're such an exceptional human, like yeah, people have done great things, but you are capable too. And like you are so capable of so much more. And we just put so many limits on ourselves. And I know that childhood plays a big role and society plays a massive role in wanting us to be workers and stuff like that. But man, we're just so expansive. But yeah, I would say for sure, I think inadvertently.
Tim Doyle (19:43.429)
You don't have to be extraordinary to do extraordinary things. And I think on the surface, you'll see extraordinary accomplishments and you just correlate that with an extraordinary person. But ordinary people can do things like that all the time. I think when it comes to interview style podcasts, a lot of people get into that type of space because they're generalists, so to speak, because they have a natural curiosity for a lot of topics.
If you're within a specific space, whether it's, you know, health and wellness or personal development, that's obviously your niche. But with that being said, is there a specific topic or subject matter that you've been recently very interested in or curious about?
James (20:32.024)
I would say psychology as a whole has always been really, just made me really curious. I had a conversation with a cognitive behavioral therapist and a stoicism expert like yesterday. Yeah. And so that's definitely a big topic for me. I think a lot of people have resonated with like the spiritual kind of content with people that I put out like that kind of stuff. So that's definitely piqued my interest as well. Just diving into deeper into that kind of world of outside of religion, but spirituality.
and it's something I definitely resonate with. man, honestly, I think the podcast, sometimes I even question the name because I think it almost narrows me down into people think they're gonna get this, but what if I wanna do this? And I don't know what that's gonna be. I'm just always curious, dude. Like my mind is never gonna be set on anything, psychology, why we are the way that we are, why we don't question our beliefs, why we just go through life, not.
really knowing who we are, what we're capable of. Like there's so much, but the human mind has definitely been at my alley.
Tim Doyle (21:34.053)
I always try to find very specific pointed questions to ask people about their life where I feel like this is the only type of question to ask this person where it's like, it's very individualistic, authentic, unique to who they are rather than vague or generalist questions. I do find like, I have found one or two questions that I'm really curious to ask a lot of people just to get their thoughts on it. So I can almost like compare and contrast.
James (21:51.118)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (22:03.043)
one person's thoughts to the other. And I'll ask that question to you next, but I'm curious to know on your end, do you think there's one question that you find yourself asking more than once to a lot of different guests of yours?
James (22:15.66)
Yeah, I'd say the core last question I ask every guest is what belief are you currently unlearning? And that kind of encapsulates what I want to do with the podcast of like, there's been guests on the show. had Neil Donald Walsh, the guy that wrote Conversation with God on yesterday. I asked him, he's in his eighties, and he said he's not unlearning anything. And I'm like, that's pretty much what I expected. So let me ask a different question. But for the most part, I love asking that question. A different question I like to ask is,
what did you spend time on earlier in your life that you realized didn't have much value or like you wish you didn't spend so much time? And I think that in a sense of, I say it can be physically like something that like a job that you did or something like that, or mentally, like what'd you spend way too much mental energy on? Because that's like literally a cheat code. Like we're asking these people, exceptional people that we're having on the podcast, and that can give us so much time back. we think, I just don't think we think about that, but I've always been that way. When I used to work in retail, I would ask people that are,
like it didn't matter what they were doing. I'm just, I've always been curious and I think we can learn from everyone, but yeah, that's the question I'd say.
Tim Doyle (23:20.091)
So the question I'll ask you that I ask a lot of people and from my own experiences, I had a massive healing journey from a really bad back injury with a lot of chronic pain. And that's where a lot of my physical pain came from. And the mindset at the start was always recovery, trying to return to who I was. And as that journey evolved, it was more so I would say healing where
there's a difference between those things. think healing and recovery. What do you think that difference is? Because I've gotten a lot of variation and I'm always fascinated to hear what people think the relationship between healing and recovery are.
James (23:52.686)
Mm.
James (24:03.894)
Yeah, that's a good question. I'd say what comes to mind first and foremost for me when I think of recovery, think of, a lot of people see rest as like completely just laying in your bed, not doing anything. Rest can be going on a walk or something, like just going, like taking things a little bit slower. So recovery for me, that kind of what comes up for me is like just allowing yourself to be diligent about the things that you need to improve and taking things a little bit slower. Healing is a different thing, because that's a lifelong journey.
I think anyone who says that they're completely healed is just, makes me really like, huh? Like that makes me really question you, cause it's like, dude, like, it doesn't matter what you're going through, like you're still a human being, right? Like again, it goes back to what I said earlier, like everyone has been on, this is the first time on the earth. So like, it doesn't matter what they've done, the amount of people, and I'll get back to this, cause I think this is just a great segue, that would make sense. You ever been on a plane and, or just anywhere, and an old person wants to, and I'll say old person,
because that's the only way I can fit, like 70s, 80s, whatever, it doesn't matter how old they are, 50s, 60s, and they just wanna give you advice. They just wanna give you all the advice, but it's terrible advice, like it's just not good, right? You ever have that happen? Dude, I was on a plane a few months ago, and this dude in the army, I don't know, he was in the military. He was trying tell me to get into the military, and I'm like, dude, gotta be honest, I don't need your advice right now, I appreciate it, but I'm not getting into the military, and like he was so pissed and so mad and all that kind of stuff, and I bring this back to say that,
People, it doesn't matter how long you are on this earth, if you're not doing the work, you're still gonna be the same person. And so it doesn't matter, that's why wisdom has, it's more of like an actual skill than it is something that you just acquire over time. Because some of the oldest people I know are just some of the, they are like children in their brain, if that makes sense. And so I would say healing is a lifelong journey, when it comes to me, and something that you actively have to put work into. And it's funny because a lot of people see healing as something that is,
I don't know, like when you start investing in yourself or you go to a coaching program or you go to a retreat, a lot of people see like, okay, once I invest, the work's over because I just put the money in. But that's really when the work starts. And I think that that's what a big misconception about healing is, is that, I mean, it's just an ongoing process. Long way to say it.
Tim Doyle (26:19.013)
I like that. And that's one of the reasons why, like I said, I always ask the question because there's been so much variability. And I think I add new pieces to my definitions of healing, with each conversation I have with people. And I like what you say they were, it almost seems like healing isn't something we do, but it's more so just a way of life and a way of acting within the world. When you were younger, you said you would always try to
James (26:29.806)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (26:48.005)
find yourself within accomplishment or within achievement, but your outlook now has evolved more so into just enjoying the passing of time. When did that shift really occur for you?
James (26:50.702)
you
James (27:08.312)
I'm not sure, honestly. I don't think there was a specific moment that it happened, but it's like I was just on a podcast right before this and he asked me like, what's next? And I'm like, I don't know. I have no idea. I have no idea. And I wouldn't really want to know because if I think this is going to happen in five years or I want this to happen in 10 years, like.
The anticipation is so much more than the actual achievement. And I had a guy, Dr. Daniel Lieberman, amazing conversation I had with him last year. If you like learning about dopamine or anything like that, he wrote the molecule of more fascinating conversation. And we spoke about that and I just think a lot of it comes down to like before it happens is when it's the most exciting. When it actually happens, I was just talking about earlier, the billionaire, like it's not everything that we thought, that's for sure. Never is.
Tim Doyle (27:56.411)
I asked that because I feel like I recently had that shift where it was like, I'm trying to get somewhere versus now just enjoying the passing of time. And I think that happened to me like really recently, I think like this past October where, like I said, I did the retreat with Danny Miranda and there was that shift from me trying to move somewhere to me just like being where I am and just allowing me to, I guess, be moved in a way rather than me trying to force movement.
James (28:12.802)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (28:28.131)
You've said you don't care about growing your podcast to as big as it can be. And I think that goes nicely with that theme of not always having to push forward, but just allowing for the work to work on you as much as you're working on the work. Do you think that because you've detached from that goal, like mindset of building your podcast has actually allowed you to in a paradoxical
way actually kind of grow the podcast as much as it has so far.
James (29:04.398)
Yeah, for sure. I think in my whole life, in every single aspect of my life, when I detached from needing it, things just started to happen. I don't know if I think I may have said this in a recent solo episode, or not recent, but a solo episode where I said that as soon as you don't need it to happen, things just start unfolding. And I really do believe that because when we're so attached to wanting outcomes or wanting things, like I used to believe when I was younger, I was gonna get into real estate before I got into coaching.
And I thought that like, dude, like I wanted to have two properties before I turned 21. I'm 21 now and I don't even know if I want a property because I just feel like that's a hassle. And like my tax guys tell me like, yeah, no, you need to get one, you need to get one, you need to get going. And I'm just like, I just don't want it. Like I just don't. And so like our minds change for sure. And I think I'm really glad that it did when it comes to the podcast. I mean, there's a billion, like I'm never, I don't think I'm going to beat Joe Rogan.
That's okay, like that's okay. I don't think most people are gonna beat Joe Rogan. I think most people know they're not gonna beat Joe Rogan. doing, he has the money to go five episodes, six episodes a week and just keep going and just have 10 hour conversations, you know what I mean? but I'm not playing that game. You know, I'm playing infinite games. And I think most, the right people are playing infinite games. Like I wouldn't be doing the podcast if I didn't get something from it, right? And I think the same thing goes for you and the right people that are doing it.
Tim Doyle (30:25.401)
love that you use the word game there because that's my exact mindset where don't find a goal you want to achieve, find a game you want to play because I use the analogy like think of video games like you don't want to finish the video game like you love the level that you're on and you're curious about the game and all the different parts that go into the game. When you're just goal oriented, you're like, I'm just doing this to get somewhere else and
James (30:44.046)
Thanks
James (30:50.207)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (30:52.369)
You have to love the game, especially when it comes to podcasting, because what I tell people is like, and I'm sure you'd be the same way like podcasting for me has been about like 60 % outreach and follow up 30 % research, like 5 % or 6 % like creating the actual finished product. And then like the smallest part about podcasting is like actually having the conversation and like
James (31:15.054)
Thank
Tim Doyle (31:16.943)
That's like what the end goal is, is like having the conversation, but it's like the smallest part of the entire process. So like you have to be curious. You have to be a learner. You have to enjoy like reading the books or like finding out more about people rather than just like simply having a conversation and like having a podcast.
James (31:34.444)
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's what's gonna make you stand out, right? I told you before we even hopped into this, like I went to your page and I was like, dude, love it. Like you can just tell, you know what I mean? Like you can tell when someone really cares about what they're doing. Like I had two podcasts yesterday. I had more energy after than I did before. Like I was more excited to like do the thumbnail and like write the show notes and like think about the title than I was to have the conversation. Cause I'm thinking like, how can I package this in a way that it's like impact the most people? It's gonna spark the most people's curiosity and.
Just help people at the end of the day, right? That's why we do it. It's helping us, but it's also, I hope this conversation, that's why we do the research that we do, because I wanna ask insightful questions that you haven't been asked on a different podcast. You're not just another body to me, right? I actually picked you because I want you. You know what I mean? And I think that this specific problem is going to be solved or stuff like that. So I think it's, absolutely, absolutely. I love that it's a game.
Tim Doyle (32:29.637)
Have you always had that creativity to you as a kid where you were working on different things? Interesting.
James (32:36.278)
No, no, my, my, played baseball my whole entire life. When people told me or asked me what I was gonna do, I literally said baseball. Like that was it. I was talking to my sister about this recently, like, and she made me think about it. Cause my life now, I couldn't imagine doing anything but what I'm doing. But I had no idea I was going to fall into this. And my entire life, like when people said like, what are you going to college for? Baseball. I never even thought about any single thing. Like there was never a major. There was never, in creativity wasn't really a thing for me. It was just.
I didn't really think I had an outlet that made me inspired to do so.
Tim Doyle (33:09.425)
That's fascinating. I feel like I would was the exact same way where I always thought of myself as a kid. Like, I'm not a creative kid. I don't have that creativity to me. But I think that we have a romanticized view of creativity where we think it has to be like very polished and artistic. But I see creativity is literally just like creation. Like it doesn't matter what it is, whether it's you using your voice and it doesn't even have to be for like putting it out to the public world. Like
James (33:24.974)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (33:36.347)
build a garden in your backyard. Like all these like simple things like creative outputs, I think are honestly like a necessity for life, especially because our society has just become so consumption driven, whether it's within media, the news, you know, the food industry. so I think that's really fascinating.
James (33:55.681)
Yeah, and I think it's especially I would say entrepreneurs, business people, like anyone that is not, and it could be people that are in a nine to five too, but I think people that are driven by results or like just really want to, like no one's telling them to stop working at the end of the day. Those kind of people are the people that need it the most because they're so detached from their body that they're so like thinking about what they need to do next and everything else.
Last year I was working with a holistic wellness coach and she's done some quantum biology and all this different kind of stuff and was like telling me that I needed to get into my creative outlet again. And outside of the podcast, like whether that was sketching or like you said, a garden, like literally anything like that. I think anything that doesn't have a revenue aside to it or something that we're going to get, something that we can show other people, we don't put enough emphasis on. And that's why it goes back to what we talking about earlier of like,
What's your quality of life? How do you want to live your life? It's not about doing these things or achieving these things. How do you feel day to day? And I don't think we think nearly enough about that.
Tim Doyle (34:59.441)
So getting deeper into your coaching now, you've spoken a little bit about it. Do you consider yourself a life coach or what is your concentration?
James (35:11.526)
I, if people ask me, do you do? I don't say, I'll usually say like a podcaster more than a life coach. when I first got into coaching, I just called myself a coach because life coach just feels like I was 17 years old when I got into coaching. I'm like, people were like, dude, you, you, haven't lived any life. And, I think it's, hard for people that don't understand coaching to understand the value of coaching, but yeah, I'm just, I'm just, just a coach, podcaster. I'm just a curious human.
Tim Doyle (35:38.353)
I like that. And that's actually something that I wanted to talk to you about, like being a young coach, whether you consider yourself a life coach or a performance coach or whatever it may be within this space. But I think a massive thing when it comes to coaching, I think, and I've never had like a life coach really, but I think a massive thing to coaching or what I would want in a coach is like somebody to connect me with that, like childlike version of who I'm.
who I am. And I think that's where the creativity comes into place where that's like, that childlike version is like, that is who you are at your core. And
James (36:08.621)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (36:20.591)
going back to sort of like the passing of time, like I don't think it's always about life is like going into more uncharted territories, but it's almost like a return of who we are as a person. And I would see that as like a young coach, like yourself as a massive benefit. And I know something big for you that you ask people and I could see it big within coaching as well as like, you're not trying to become more or learn more, but you're
James (36:32.696)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (36:48.791)
stripping the things away that you don't need in your life anymore. How do you feel like that has really benefited you as a coach is being somebody who's young and maybe working with people who are older than you and allowing them to kind of maybe reconnect with that younger version of themselves and turn this thing of like you being a young coach, something like people would look down upon or be a setback, but it's honestly like a massive selling point.
James (37:16.268)
Yeah, that's an incredible question, man. It is true. I had Daniel Priestley on last year and like huge business person. I was asking him the same thing. Like, how do I, like, how could I position myself? Like, how would you position yourself? And he thought exactly that. It's like me being young is like, like my superpower. And I didn't see it as that when I first got started in coaching. I thought it was a limitation. And one of my first coaches told me, and it's stuck with me ever since,
you do a disservice by not bringing your unique gifts into the world, right? And I don't need to have the answers. So the amount of life that I lived has no relevance to me being able to help someone because I'm just helping them help themselves at end of the day. I just have questions that un- like that's why I became a podcaster as well, right? Like I'm just a curious person. That's all you really need. Anytime I'm selling someone into my coaching program, I'm not selling them and they don't feel like it's a sales call. It's never a sales call because I'm genuinely wanting to know where you are.
seeing if where I'm at could even help you with where you're at or where you're trying to go, or if I know someone that might help you better, because I think most business coaches or mindset coaches or whatever, they're all life coaches at the end of the day, because you need to work on yourself to work on your business, because a lot of the things that are stopping your business from growing is you at the end of the day. And so yeah, I think it's been amazing, because it's really helped me realize that it's not on me at the end of the day. And I put so much pressure on myself when I first got started.
And I think a lot of coaches do and a lot of people that want to help people is like, what if I don't help them to the best of my ability? It's like, okay, I'll give them the money back. Like that's perfectly fine. Never have ever once had someone ask me for their money back. And so it's just a constant growing of just allowing yourself to trust that. And I think that the more that I've done it and the more people I've worked with and the different ways that I've done it outside of just coaching, but in everyday life, just helping people, just being a mirror for them for sure. And I think...
more than anything, it really is just a place for people to be open, vulnerable, and honest about what they're going through. And I think most of society doesn't have that. And I think that's more important than literally anything in the world.
Tim Doyle (39:22.031)
You said there that your coach said to you that you do a disservice by not bringing your unique gifts into the world. Besides your youth, what do you think your unique gifts are that you have brought into the world so far?
James (39:35.532)
I would say when it comes to personal coaching is helping people see something in them that they can't see in themselves. And that's what I try to do for myself. I try to do that for other people through the podcast even. It's like just bringing things up that they completely didn't even realize was like so awesome about themselves or something that they didn't realize that they should value about themselves. Like you said, lot of coaching is like getting back to that inner child, that part of yourself that needs to be healed, that needed to be appreciated. And if you never gave yourself that space,
I think it's really difficult. And so I think a lot of the time it's just allowing people to have compassion for themselves more than anything. Because if you're coming at this place, if you're trying to change or trying to grow from a place of hatred or anger or pride or anything like that, it's just, it's a good motivator for sure, but it's not long lasting and it's definitely not healthy. And it's definitely not a good way to approach a life worth living in my opinion. And so I think more than anything, it's just.
allowing people to open up. Because I've been told from clients and from non-clients that I just, I do a really good job of giving people a space to be open. Like people that have told me things that they've never told anybody else. And I'm really grateful that I've been able to do that for people.
Tim Doyle (40:50.255)
One of your truths from your 15 brutal truths I'm glad I know in my 20s. Problems replace problems. Once you overcome one problem, there will be another one waiting for you. What's a problem you think you're currently facing right now?
James (41:06.71)
I would say knowing where I want to go. You said you're going to Austin. I'm gonna go to Austin for a month for the coaching program I was telling you about. And I don't know if I want that to be the place I stay. I don't know, and we'll see. I mean, it's gonna be my third time in Austin. It's gonna be my longest time in Austin. But I'm going to Columbia in two weeks. And before Austin, I'm going to California. And after Austin, I'm going to Peru. Like, I just don't know where I wanna be, like physically.
And because I know community's a big thing for me, I've never really had it in person, so I know Austin would be a great place for me. But I am someone that like, when people ask me where you're gonna be, I'm like, I don't know where I'm gonna be business-wise, I know where I'm gonna be anything-wise, I don't know where I'm gonna be physically. And so if I don't know where I'm gonna be physically, how can anything else be a part of that? And I'm really driven by just being excited and novelty and stuff like that, and so I'd say a challenge for me is just figuring out where I wanna stick around for a little bit.
Tim Doyle (42:02.127)
Is there any part of you that feels like that's a strength or do you just see that as a problem?
James (42:07.03)
No, I think it's a strength for sure. It keeps me open. Yeah, I think it keeps me open. I'm never closed off to, even with coaching, like I love coaching, but maybe coaching, this one-on-one coaching isn't for me. Maybe it's retreats, maybe it's group coaching. Like I don't know what that's gonna turn into. I don't know what it could turn into, so I'm always open.
Tim Doyle (42:27.493)
I'm the exact same way as you where I think to a certain degree, I always feel like a certain part of myself is lost, but I don't see that as being lost, but I just chalk that up to curiosity. And I don't know if that's me just trying to put a positive spin on things or not, but I feel like there is some truth to that where if you feel like there's always a part of you that doesn't have things figured out, it allows you to.
James (42:36.11)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (42:56.997)
continue to explore outside of yourself and inside of yourself and allow for sort of that fluidity to come into your life and that spontaneity and not going back to that whole like idea of not having a story for yourself and sort of just allowing for things to play out and also enjoy the passage of time rather than just being on this hard line and building on a lot of the dualities that we've spoken about.
James (43:12.43)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (43:26.287)
And a lot of that just recently, you've said you're good at being vision focused and showing up day to day, but not so much on strategizing and looking, you know, three or four or five years down the line. Do you see that as a struggle for you as well? Or is it mostly you see that as a massive strength? Because like for myself, I always go back and forth, but I see it more as a strength than as a setback.
James (43:51.118)
Do you, so you resonate as well with that? Yeah, I'd say, I think it's a great thing when it comes to like just getting results because I'm just like doing the work. But I think it's difficult too because in a sense of if I want to write a book or if I want to get into retreats or whatever it is, it's like, I'm not sure how that's going to work out. I'm not sure all the steps I have to take to make it happen. But I know that the mindset that I have is like,
Tim Doyle (43:53.105)
100 %
James (44:19.63)
Okay, I'm just gonna start with the first thing, and then the second thing, and then the third thing. So it's definitely helpful. I think it's great to be creative and to have vision, visionarians being able to strategize really well. But life is so unpredictable that I think the ability to just show up day after day is more valuable than strategizing. I think intentional action is really important. Let me not get that mistaken. think being intentional about what you're doing every day is really important, but.
I've relied on it for sure. I definitely think I could be better about being more strategic in the way that I approach life, but like you said, I'm just so fluid with life and every single thing that I've said yes to in my life has unfolded perfectly. And I just live by the belief that life is unfolding exactly how it's supposed to. And that hasn't served me wrong yet. And I think what you were saying earlier, it's like, I had someone on the podcast last year, Derek Sivers, and he spoke about useful, not true.
It's like, I'm gonna take on that belief. It may not be true, but it damn sure is useful for me. And I think that that's more powerful than anything.
Tim Doyle (45:25.297)
couldn't agree more with that. And I find it so fascinating how, you know, questions like, do see yourself in five years? Like there's such common questions that are asked, whether it's like in interviews or just like between people. And it's such a loaded question in my eyes, because if you were to ask me five years ago, like where would I be today? I don't think I would have said a single thing that I'm currently doing right now. And I love this quote that you have.
James (45:36.718)
Hmm.
James (45:49.048)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (45:52.441)
I almost see myself now compared to the person I was as a completely different person. I'm not even a better version of myself. I'm not even that person anymore. And I think that's such a strong framework to have where I do think it's good to just be so focused on the short term and just allowing the days to play out and just stacking days, honestly, with the work that you love doing. So I'm going to take an opposite approach to that.
James (46:14.062)
you
Tim Doyle (46:20.645)
question of where do see yourself in five days and just short term like what's the work that you got to get done this week?
James (46:27.662)
Yeah, well, I have to respond to the Airbnb lady for Columbia because I have to get my passport and stuff so I can get the passport to get into the My sister's moving, so I'm going to help her move in and stuff like that and little things like that. But for the work, I have some podcasts to get edited and stuff like that and some trips to plan out. I got to get a flight to Peru booked and just stuff with my tax guy with
that being, being over with the year being over and a lot of stuff that isn't fun, honestly, but, stuff that has to get done.
Tim Doyle (47:03.183)
I love it and I can't wait to look back on this conversation five years from now and see how things have played out.
James (47:09.292)
Yeah, bro, me too. I'm sure we'll be connected through there.
Tim Doyle (47:12.827)
James, great having you on the show. can people go to connect with you, all the great work that you're doing with your show and everything else?
James (47:19.628)
Absolutely. James Bracken IV on all socials and on YouTube as well. You can't do podcasts on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, all that kind of stuff. And dude, you're an incredible interviewer. it's going to be so great for you, man. And I know that it already is. Like you're already getting so much from it, but the people that you're going to impact, man, I'm really excited for you. And I'm excited to connect when we go to Austin too.
Tim Doyle (47:39.569)
That means a lot coming from you because I've watched a lot of your podcasts as well and you've been able to connect with some incredible people and you ask some incredible questions as well. So really appreciate that.
