The Outworker
Stories of healing, personal development, and inner work. Founded on the idea that the relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect, The Outworker shares conversations aimed at helping you develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#051 - James Lawrence - What It Takes To Complete 100 Triathlons In 100 Days
What does it take to push the human body and mind beyond its limits? In this episode, I talk with endurance legend James Lawrence—aka the Iron Cowboy—who completed 100 full-distance triathlons in 100 days. We break down the science behind his training, the mental strategies that kept him going, and why he chose to do one more triathlon even after the challenge was over. James also shares insights on discipline, fear, and the unexpected challenges of healing.
Timestamps:
00:00 Zero Special Physical Abilities & Genetic Testing
02:03 Conquer 100 Being The Next Step
09:34 Respecting, But Ignoring The Medical Industry
12:42 Only 4 Months To Train
17:17 2 Types Of Suffering
18:22 The Team Behind Conquer 100
21:09 Day 1 - Just Getting To The Next Step
24:04 Eating 12K-15K Calories A Day
25:32 "Here We Go" - Impact Of Speaking Your Mantra
31:08 Speaking To Your Body Parts
34:06 Out Of Body Experiences
36:29 How Bad The Pain Got
37:35 Getting Stronger As Time Goes On
40:18 Experiencing Scary Bike Accident
46:57 Day 100
48:03 Doing 101 Triathlons
51:33 Build Systems, Not Goals
56:54 Challenging Healing Process
57:48 Wisdom Gained From Conquer 100
58:44 Unwilling Challenges Are A Launching Pad
1:00:33 Connect With James
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What’s up outworkers. What does it take to push the human body and mind beyond its limits? In this episode, I talk with endurance legend James Lawrence—aka the Iron Cowboy—who completed 100 full-distance triathlons in 100 days. We break down the science behind his training, the mental strategies that kept him going, and why he chose to do one more triathlon even after the challenge was over. James also shares insights on discipline, fear, and the unexpected challenges of healing.
Tim Doyle (00:07.492)
You've got a lot of incredible numbers attached to your name, which have come in the form of accomplishments. But the one number I want to start with isn't an accomplishment, but it's something that you are, which is zero special physical attributes. And you've gone through a lot of genetic testing. What exactly did that process look like and what have you learned about yourself on a physiological and biological level?
James (00:23.544)
Yeah.
James (00:35.372)
Yeah, so it's interesting, you know, when when you do something extraordinary, for some reason, people like to discredit hard work that went into that and they just like, he's different. I can't do that because he's different. And they rob themselves because they're creating an excuse for them. But when when we did what's called the 50, people were like, OK, dude's different. I can't do what he did. And so over time, they like convinced me that I had this like genetic something.
some spite, like whatever it was, spider bite or whatever. And I was like, dude, I'm just as average white Canadian. And, uh, and so I went and got all these tests done and my epigenetics and genetics and tried to measure as many markers as we could. And dude, it came back completely like zero, like there's zero things that separate you that give you any type of genetic advantage to do the things that you've done. And, um, and it's, and it's just testament to.
hard work and doing a lot of little things consistently over a long period of time.
Tim Doyle (01:39.042)
that you mentioned there, the 5050 triathlons and 50 states over 50 days. Truly remarkable. To build off of that, and to bring other numbers into the equation. You go on 100 triathlons in 100 straight days or what you branded it as the conquer 100. Where does the idea for something like that stem from and actually like, alright, this is something I'm going to do.
James (02:08.846)
Yeah, one of my talking points kind of from stage now, it's what I get to do. I've been a speaker for over a decade now, which is crazy to me. Spoken in 57 countries. But one of things I like to talk about is every journey has a humble beginning. And it didn't start with 50 Ironmans, 50 days, 50 states. That led to the belief system to be able to do 100 Ironmans. But, you know, initially that was a decade down the journey from where I started.
And, you know, the other concept that I think is important for people to understand is we can only see, dream, or think as big as our experiences are and what our belief system allows us to dictate. And so as we went on this journey, the benchmark kept moving and getting higher because we changed, evolved and more became possible. And so, but, you know, it's funny because that's, that's the point of life, right? Like this too.
You know, cause you hear people early on, they're like, man, you, reached your goal, but now you've moved the bar. And I'm like, yeah, that's the point. Because the bar will always be moving because we keep changing, evolving to becoming different versions of who we are. But a lot of people don't realize is, you know, they see those headlines. And again, where this conversation started, these dudes different, but it started with a four mile fun run that I struggled through literally up off the couch, ran it with my wife and.
She beat me up. And that kind of put us on this path. But I did very short sprint, fast, fun, explosive racing for years before I was like, OK, I think I'm ready to do an Olympic, before I'm ready to do a half. OK, let's, as big as I can think now, let's do a full. Because when I first started racing, I didn't know how to swim. I borrowed a bike. And so that sprint triathlon was like, this is the biggest I can think.
Because I didn't know how to swim. 2.4 miles was not even comprehensible. Like a 500 meter workout was everything out of me when I first started. so, like I said, you have to meet yourself where you're at. And so start there and then that will lead to different things. But everyone tries to go from zero to 100 and it's not possible.
Tim Doyle (04:26.854)
like how you call this and getting into your book as well. Now you call it a lingering dream rather than a big dream from the standpoint of like, this is this thing that kind of just like ate away at you and was like, this is just feels like something I got to do. Whereas from the standpoint of like a big dream, it can hit you once and maybe it like doesn't come back and like, yeah, it's a strong hit in the moment, but like it doesn't stick with you. And I liked that component of like the work that feels like you need to get done. It'll just continue to not you.
from the standpoint of like, if I don't do this, maybe it'll cause like a lot of pain or suffering like by doing such hard work. But like, if I don't do it, like that will cause even more pain from.
James (05:03.245)
Hmm.
James (05:10.03)
Well, it's interesting too, because, you know, I've got five kids and they're all ages between 15 and 22 now. So they're getting into adulthood and figuring things out. And just by observing their peers and them growing up this, you know, we've, we've got this distraction called social media and we're looking at other people's moments and we're, forgetting to live ours and we're listening to the opinions of these so-called influencers, coaches, mentors, whatever.
And what we've forgotten how to do is listen to our own intuition and that gut feeling and that lingering dream is that feeling, that intuition that keeps coming back and be like, hey, you need to do this thing. Hey, this is something, this is an adventure I've kind of put in place for you. And you've wanted this, you've attracted this, but why aren't you doing it? And that lingering dream is that intuition, that nudge to say, hey bro, let's tackle this.
And I see a lot of my children's peers just sitting at home going, man, what's my purpose? What's my passion? And they're just sitting there waiting for it to knock on their door. And news slash family ain't coming ever. You have to go and have experiences. The three sports I love the most to do participate in are wrestling back in the day, golf back in the day and today, and then triathlon. All single solo pursuits, individualistic type.
If I win, it's my fault. If I lose, it's my fault. But I didn't know any of those would become a passion of mine until I did them. And I think that's the gift in life and the purpose of life is to go out and have these experiences. And then by doing so, by living your life, all of a sudden you start to figure out what your passions are.
And then you do a deeper dive into them and say, this is really something that is going to demand my attention. Is it worth giving my time and energy and effort to? And then all of a sudden, you're 15 years down the road, you're that must have been a passion of mine.
Tim Doyle (07:13.648)
Yeah, I really like that idea. It's not like you 10 to 15 years ago, you set out like, okay, I'm going to build myself self up from the standpoint of like, all right, now I can go do the conquer 100. It's almost like it was just this natural evolution of like, all right, this is just the next step that I'm going to do.
James (07:30.424)
Well, that's that right there is the thing because when I was doing sprint Olympic racing, like I just wanted to do one Ironman, like that's as big as I could think. And then you do one and you're like, okay, that was crazy. Can I do that better? Can I be faster at that? Can I, can I dissect this? Can I improve? And then all of a sudden you start to do one and you're like, okay, well, and then, then obviously your mind starts to go and you start to dream with different capacities and intuition comes in and you know, different causes. We want to raise money for all these
bigger picture things start to come in. But really initially, dude, I couldn't even dream, fathom. It wasn't even in the stratosphere to do a hundred. It wasn't at a point of my journey or experience to be able to even dream of that. It was impossible.
Tim Doyle (08:21.382)
doctors you consulted during the planning phase for the conquer 100 were convinced you would die and you say oh for the 50 okay
James (08:24.579)
Hmm.
Yeah, that was for the 50. Yeah. I'm sure they said it about the 100, too.
Tim Doyle (08:36.23)
But you say in your book, which I find really interesting as well, is that you learn to walk the careful tightrope between respecting the medical industry and ignoring it. What does that relationship with the medical space continue to look like for you?
James (08:53.292)
Well, it's like it's like anything, man. Like you wouldn't go seek advice from someone that hasn't accomplished or done what you've done. And so there's that fine line, right? Like I need to listen to them in terms of, you know, maybe what their perceived boundaries are as humans. But it's so hard because you look at and I'm putting a lot of doctors in a box here.
But you look at a lot of medical professionals and their motivation, and trust me, if you're a doctor and this isn't you, then I'm not talking about you. But they're motivated by money and what prescriptions or medications to push. And I've seen a lot of newer age doctors that are coming out and be like, we didn't talk about nutrition and we didn't talk about all these things and we didn't talk about actual health benefits. We did more how to
prevent or not, not even prevent, but like treat, treat cause. And, it was a great book called live well. it's basically med 3.0, Peter Tia, talking about prevention and all these things and looking at medicine and health in a different way. And so to, to, to walk that fine line, I've got to be careful with like, they, they don't have any basis of expertise in talking about what I'm about to tackle.
and based on all of my personal experience, nobody knows my body, my abilities, my capabilities better than me through experience. Like it's not like it was like, hmm, again, zero to 100 haven't done anything is 100 possible. No, it's probably not. And you're run into many complications. But because this was spaced out over a decade, I had a very intimate relationship with myself in terms of this very specific thing.
And nobody on the planet, no matter what university and degree you have in terms of MD world, it had no bearing or reference on what we were about to do. And so that's what kind of where I was like, I'm going to listen to them sparingly because they have some general health knowledge in terms of what the body can endure and whatnot. But essentially they have no clue as to what me, myself, and I are capable of.
Tim Doyle (11:07.076)
Yeah, that's really interesting because obviously when you look at this feed of the conquer 100, when you look at it in isolation, you would probably say like, yeah, if somebody goes through that, you're probably going to die. But like this was a culmination of years of work, especially your body, like being able to take on that physical demand for the training process. You only had four months to train for this and
James (11:22.574)
for her.
James (11:32.809)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tim Doyle (11:36.548)
The numbers just didn't add up from the standpoint of like feeling like you could be fully trained. So was more so from the standpoint of like, all right, like I'm going to train for the start of this. And then like, we're just going to see what happens with that being said, like what did the training process look like? So you could be as best prepared as you possibly.
James (11:41.783)
Yeah.
James (11:56.654)
Yeah, so leading up to the 50, which was back in 2015, had done multiple things that canapulted the next level of fitness that got me ready for the 50. I was physically very ready for the 50. We had broken two world records leading up to that. Each one was its own training camp.
building and building and building to the point we started the 50. Well, after the 50, I had a massive career change because I felt that was the pinnacle of what I was ever going to do. And I was very satisfied with it.
And I was pushed into the speaking world and I was a new author and we had a documentary on Netflix and all these crazy things were happening. And then I now shifted to more business and supporting my family. And that was the point of the 50 without even realizing it. Like we were getting our lives back from filing bankruptcy and losing everything during the economic crash, we still no mortgage company. And so a lot of backstory there. The 50 was to really set ourselves up for a new future.
And it did that. And the training for that was very intentional. And like I said, built over years. Well, for the hundred, the pandemic hit and speaking gets wiped clean, racing gets wiped clean, coaching for racing, like my entire calendar, full to zero in 48 hours. And I'd always been waiting for an opportunity.
to kind of reset my own history, do the 50 better than I did it before, but I didn't want the craziness, the logistics of that. I really wanted to find out how many the body could do and just chasing that potential. Right. And so was like, okay, if I remove chaos, confusion, put the right system and team in place, could we double what everybody said was impossible? First book, redefine impossible. Could we defy logic? naivety is sometimes...
James (13:53.358)
a blessing because you don't know what you're going into and you wouldn't do it otherwise. This time it was a curse. I was basing it off of my past experience, the buildup, and you'll understand this as you age, your mind still thinks you're in your 20s or even 30s and I was turning 45 going into this challenge and I was no longer a young man. And I was basing it off of the experience and knowledge
of the good memories I had from the 50, you forget about the suffering. And I got faster throughout those 50 Ironmans in 50 days. If you take my total time over the last 20, they were my fastest 20. And my 50th and final day was an 11 hour 32 Ironman. We went under seven minute miles during portions of that marathon. And it was just this wild, crazy experience. And so my brain, our brains remember those highlight moments, right? And so was like, oh, I'm going to get faster over these hundred days.
But I forgot where my starting point was. I forgot where my fitness level was. And kind of I was like, OK, I've got four months. I know if I do the right things. I did a lot of biking. I knew my biggest pain point was going to be running. And so I was like, OK, I'm going to get as fit as I can in four months. It six years removed. And I thought, OK, I got stronger over the 50. So I'll get stronger over the first 50 days of the 100. And then I'll parlay that fitness. And then we'll really start to showcase what we can do.
Well, reality set in really hard, really quick. And by day five, I was broken. the way that I say it in the documentary that's on Prime, which I would encourage everybody to go watch, I'll quote myself and it says, I was staring down the barrel of 95 more to go and I was broken. And so then the 100 became this intense.
long battle with, with suffering and just mental toughness and grit, just like fighting through it. And that's where the book, the new book, iron hope was born because people watched our willingness to suffer intentional and it gave them hope on the journeys that they were suffering with unintentionally. And there's two types of suffering in this world. And I know a lot of your listeners are young men and this hopefully this resonates with, with a lot of you. And I hope you choose.
James (16:14.572)
the right one of these two over the other. There's two types of suffering. There's stupid suffering. And then there's suffering because you're chasing potential. And the stupid suffering is lack of preparation, winging the shit out of things, going just completely unprepared, totally naive going in and just like suffering.
And then there's you've prepared, you're ready and you're trying something so big and so enormous that you're suffering, but it's like this joyful suffering because you're now pushing a boundary. Can you see the difference between the two of those Tim? Does that resonate at all? Yeah. And so, so I'm, I hope, and I would challenge listeners to choose option two to where you've prepared and now you're suffering because you're like pushing a boundary, limitation. You're taking yourself somewhere as opposed to
Holy hell, I'm in survival mode and I'm just flat out suffering.
Tim Doyle (17:08.998)
Part of the reason why you love this work, like you said earlier, is that it's a very individualistic type work where it's like, this is all on me. With that being said though, there's a full operation behind this and you've got a full team behind you. So you're making sure that you're in the best position possible. What exactly did that team look like and what were the specific roles within the team?
James (17:14.67)
Mmm.
James (17:30.926)
Yeah, you'll never hear me say I did this or I'm the Iron Cowboy. We did this. We are the Iron Cowboy. And the Iron Cowboys turned into more of a brand that stands for certain things. And my main core team is obviously my wife, We call her Sunny Joe Mama. We've got those five kids.
And they've been they've been they've been with us the whole journey. In fact, my my oldest daughter is now 22. She's making me a grandfather in July, which is crazy to think she runs. She runs my whole business now. But so it's my wife, my five kids and the two of my now best friends just got lucky with who they were.
opportunity they had to be part of the 50. They were really the only two available that said yes and we got to know them on the 50. But it just turned out so brilliant. We called them the wingmen. So was Casey Aaron, two wingmen, my wife Sonny, and then my five kids. And that's really our team. So the four of us called four horsemen and then the five kids. so team of nine and then obviously my physical therapist Hayden, a couple of the physical therapists on the team, Felicia.
And then there was always a team of for the documentaries there was cameraman and producer and all these things That's kind of not my team, but they had to be part of the team in order to make this work And that was really it
that's who we were dealing with, who made this whole thing go. And then there's always key players, helpers, volunteers, really close friends, family members that step up in different times and capacities when they could really see that we needed it. And then there's always that OG group of friends that are, and you find out who those are along the way. your fake friends that are coat-tail riding, they'll vanish.
James (19:16.926)
In fact, we had this conversation. drove one of my daughters to the airport and my other two daughters and my wife were talking on the way home and we were like, isn't it interesting looking back now, all of our real friends are friends that were with us at the beginning of this journey, not friends we met along the way. And to me that really like how it really rang true to how important your like core group is that supported you at the beginning and your loyalty to those people.
must be like it needs to be and continue to be at a premium.
Tim Doyle (19:51.174)
Yeah, everyone shows up on day 100 at the celebration. So day one is March 1st, 2021. And like you said, you go through five of these and you're like, wow, I got 95 more of these. How important was it? Because I'm a big believer. It's like...
James (19:54.978)
Yep.
James (19:59.703)
Hmm.
James (20:07.943)
Which real quick, 95 sounds like, it's only 95 days. That's three months. That's a quarter of a year left remaining to go.
Tim Doyle (20:16.55)
I couldn't imagine doing it two days in a row. So to do what you did, truly remarkable. And I'm a big believer. Yes, think big, but you got to execute small. How important was that mindset of it's like, not even necessarily having the mindset of trying to do the conquer 100, but it's like, you're just trying to get to the next step from like the standpoint of just such minute actions where it's like, I'm just trying to get to the massage table and we'll just go from
James (20:44.608)
Yeah, and it literally was next step, one step at a time in certain moments, just trying to manage what you were given. it just, it it just parallels life. So great when you're in the peak of discomfort or challenge or depression, anxiety, struggle. I love the concept of you just have to be perfect for one second. And nobody convinced me, no matter what you're going through, that you can't be like one second perfect. I was good for one second.
And then it just becomes a matter of stacking seconds on top of each other. And it really helped me to hone in on the moment to not worry about, you know, day 50, 60, 70, 80. Because if I don't handle the next step, the next moment, none of that happens. And I'm sure a lot of individuals on this have heard the concept of, if I take care of today, tomorrow takes care of itself.
And for me, it was the recognition that one, the next step's not going to kill me. And if I take the next step, I now have the knowledge to take another one. And it was actually, you know, when we first announced the Conquer 100, everyone was like, my gosh, 100 days, the same course, it's going to be mind numbing, it's going to be boring, it's going to be repetitive. Turned out to be a blessing because I pulled confidence from that. And you you get to the point where you're like, well, I did that yesterday.
And so I should be able to do it again today. And so it became this, instead of being this monotonous, repetitive thing, it built my confidence in terms of like, I can do that again because I just did it. Right. And so I really framework it in my mind in terms of this isn't boring. This is a gift. And I know every corner now. I know where every pothole is. I know every turn. I know every junction. I know the animal on the other side of that fence at this point. I know the horse in the next pasture. Like,
It became that familiar that it gave me a sense of comfort. that allowed us to build momentum as we move through this instead of having this like mind numbingly boring, repetitive thing.
Tim Doyle (22:47.45)
Yeah, it almost becomes ritualistic. What was the fueling process look like throughout the day and then at the end of the day from a standpoint of nutrition?
James (22:49.858)
Yes.
James (22:54.136)
fueling?
James (22:57.686)
man, was a, it was a from wake up to fall asleep as much food as I could shovel in my mouth. 12 to 15,000 calories a day. learned on the 50, you know, you hopefully you go through life and you make mistakes and you learn from them and apply them to whatever the next challenges. And one of the things we learned at a high level is I'm not feeling for the moment I'm feeling for tomorrow's Ironman, Saturday's Ironman, next week's Ironman. And so it was consume, consume, consume, consume.
And I became so metabolically efficient, I had the luxury of, I can consume whatever I want. And so it became just like smorgasbord of sweets and really palatable, delicious things, which in the long run really hurt me because one would deal that that led to a lot of inflammation that didn't help the cause. And then post 100, you now have this palette that only likes really sweet things. And that puts you on a very different road for it.
different conversation. But no, was 12 to 15,000 calories as much as I could eat while in motion, while sitting, while moving, while not moving. The only time I wasn't eating when I was swimming and I was taking sips of protein drinks at the end of the pool. it became of how much can we eat without throwing up to fuel what we're doing so we don't wither away to nothing.
Tim Doyle (24:19.846)
One of my favorite parts of your entire process is that you lean into using your voice and speaking to yourself and you have the mantra, here we go. What's the impact of having a phrase like that and actually verbalizing it?
James (24:26.456)
Hmm.
Here we go.
James (24:34.518)
Yeah, for us, so the kind of the backstory to that is the two wingman, Casey and I, I'm sorry, Casey and Aaron and I, we love to do stuff together. We love training, we love challenges. Aaron and I, went and did the world's toughest race in Fiji, which is an adventure race on Amazon Prime. Check that out if you want. And then there was this race called the Uberman, and it was a very long, challenging triathlon swim by Gromit.
And we had met, Casey and I, we were doing this swim run race called Otila, which is pronounced Ootolu, which means island island. And it's you swim, you run, you swim, you run, you swim, you run, you swim. This race was in Catalina Island and we were on the boat ride back and we met this incredible swimmer. She went to the Olympic trials. Her name was Catherine. And she was like, I would love to do that race called the Uberman, but I don't like to swim. I mean, I don't like to bike and I don't like to run.
And I was like, I would like to do Uberman, but I don't like to swim or run. And Casey's like, my gosh, this sounds amazing. I will run for the two of you. And so we created this relay and we were going to go after the course record, which was 112 hours. And the relay course is you swim from Catalina Island to Long Beach. So 22 mile open water swim, Catherine's leg. She hands off to me.
And I had a 435 mile bike ride from Long Beach to Death Valley in California. I hand off to Casey to where he runs 135 miles through Death Valley, which is normally a run race that's called Badwater. All totaled, swim from Catalina, run to the base of Badwater and Death Valley, and then run to the top of Port Whitney. We do this.
We're crushing the record, like smashing it. It was 112 hours. We ended up doing it in 72. Casey's on the run. He's supported up all night supporting Catherine. She had to start at midnight. Hands off to me at 10 a.m. Casey stays up all day, all night, all day while I'm on the bike. And then he's about to run for 35 hours straight. So he runs all day in the heat, all night, and then into the day again. He hasn't slept in like three days. So by the time he gets to the run,
James (26:55.862)
He is hallucinating. He's at the last part climbing Port Whitney and he has these hiking poles and he's on the trail up. And every so often, he was so funny, he would turn into the Terminator and his poles were like missiles and he was killing stuff on the road and he'd be like boom and like exploding these things. And then all of a sudden his body would shut down like a robot and we'd be like, okay, we're just like trying to talk him into get going again and we've got like eight more miles to go and we're gonna get this record and.
And then all of a sudden he would like pop up with this unbelievable amount of energy and just, just say the words, here we go. And he'd say the words, here we go. And he'd fire down the trail again until he'd like turn into the Terminator and start killing things. And then he'd shut down and then boom, here we go. And it was him reframing in his mind, gaining back composure and then taking off again. so during the long story to answer your question, but it was kind of a fun story. Um, during the conquer 100, it got to the point where I was on the run trail really suffering.
And I was blacking out from the pain in case he was kind of catching me. And then when I came back to together, we'd be like, okay, here we go. And it was that total mind and body reset. go down the trail again until I'd like lose, lose the battle with the pain blackout case and catch me. And, so the, importance of a mantra like that is kind of that like pause, reflect, and then you've got to have something that gets you going again, because in those moments when you're like pausing, it's the peak of pain and, and discomfort and your body's shutting down.
If you're not ready with something in your back pocket to get you going again, you're stuck. There's no, there's no reset button. There's no nothing. You've got no mantra. And then you start to spiral and your journey's over. And so you got to be ready for that moment. Like, okay, what, what is it? What's the phrase? What's the technique? What's the trick? What's the trigger? That's going to, when it, and that happens, boom. And for us, it was easy. was like, Casey, it's here we go. And so we actually made a shirt that said, here we go. And I sold a ton of them online. was a lot of fun. during the conquer 100.
But that became our mantra. Like anytime any of us was like in a funk, were like, here we go. Because the other thing we talked about in the book is like having quick turnarounds. And it's okay to have these shut down, these moments, emotion, feel, cry, piss, moan, whatever it is, get angry for a second. But it's about sitting and stewing in those moments. And you have to have the emotional intelligence to be able to recognize, okay, I'm having a moment, it's okay.
James (29:18.466)
I'm going to give myself that five minutes to process, think, digest, whatever it is. And then I'm in, then here we go. And then I got to get back on track task. Right. And so I trust me, I'm not saying like stuff everything down. Don't feel anything. Keep going blast through everything. Have no emotion. Like that's unrealistic and ridiculous. And so you have to be ready to get through those moments because they are coming and it's okay to pause and take that deep breath and go, okay, this is real.
But then you gotta have the ability to have those quick turnarounds and then have a mantra to keep you on the road.
Tim Doyle (29:54.38)
Absolutely love that building off of that you also speak to your body and specifically you would speak to body parts and that's something that resonates with me on a deep level and something that I've implemented within my own life and you say that the words would the words massage their way into your skin. What exactly does that process look like for you? And why has it been so beneficial?
James (30:16.942)
Hmm.
James (30:23.734)
Yeah, so on the simplest of levels, like if we were to do a deep dive into this, like every physical pain or injury or ailment we're having is associated to an emotion. And so there's a whole process to emotionally heal yourself and the body will follow suit. There's a great book called Messages from the Body. But this was this was also on a simpler level, expressing gratitude. And and I.
I know I was in so much pain and at different times it was my ankle and other times it was my hip and sometimes it was a glute and sometimes my calf was cramping and so during the swim portion I swam at the local pool here every morning. It was an outdoor pool, really cool, especially when it snowing outside and these different weather elements. But I felt safe in the water. I couldn't crash on my bike. I wasn't in the immense pain I was on the run course. And so for me that hour 15 or hour 20 in the water every morning was
was like a safe haven for me. And it was an opportunity for me to express gratitude and to go through some healing modalities emotionally and physically. And words are powerful and my entire body needed to work from top to bottom. And so as I'm swimming, I had a lot of time every single morning to get into my practice of.
breath work and really calming that down and getting into, I would thank every single body part and go through and the connection with them and express gratitude to them and say, Hey, you know, things like we can't do this if we're not all on the same page and doing this together. And Hey bro, handicap, you're part of this team, bro. And I need you today. so depending on where I was really feeling some disconnect or whatnot, I'd get deep into those things. I'm like, Hey man, what can I do for you? And how do I serve you best? And you know, there's just, was having conversations with all, with all my body parts and getting
everybody on the same page and like, man, thank you, digestive system for the amount of food I'm putting in you and you're processing them and turning it into energy for me. so it was just like this really intense moment of, or moments and gratitude to where I'm just expressing thankful emotions towards, you know, what my body's allowing me to do. Kind of strange. I know it's weird.
Tim Doyle (32:33.36)
resonates on. No, I know, I know it sounds strange, but that resonates on such a deep level. And that that has played a crucial part within my life, and especially healing from some very bad physical painful moments within my life. So I found that really fascinating to hear you talk about that. I'm really into weightlifting more so than endurance training. I'm
I'm very disciplined. would say I'm a very fit person, not from the standpoint of needing to do it competitively, but more so just like a way of life and staying fit. But I have found that cardiovascular exercise allows me to connect with myself on a deeper level compared to a weightlifting session. And you experienced this to an extreme where you haven't an out of body experience, multiple.
James (33:30.254)
Mmm.
Tim Doyle (33:31.91)
throughout the Conquer 100. But when you have that first one, what's it like when you're detaching from your identity and observing yourself like another person?
James (33:33.314)
Yeah.
James (33:43.478)
Yeah, it's really wild. And this is, you know, I just talked to the, was on his podcast, I met him at an event. Steven Kotra, I always pronounce his name wrong, but he was the author of Becoming Superman. And he does a real deep dive into flow state. And so he was really interested in talking to me. I did a presentation at their corporate event and he was like, my gosh, you're the greatest example of flow that I've ever experienced. And I was like, hey, I...
I'm like, you're way smarter than I am. And he's like, no, no, no, but you have put it into practice. And then I shared with him some of those out of body experiences that I had that I shared in the book too. But, but you can't, you know, it's, to the point of like, have to show up in your life, have experiences, you have to take yourself to the brink of where you are. And then you slowly start to learn how to manage those moments, how to switch from negative conversations to positive conversations, how to take the focus off of pain.
And then you, it's a skillset and you start to develop it over time to the point where you're like, I'm in a lot of trouble. I need to like separate myself. And then you're having that out of body experience. And it happened to me twice on the a hundred and it's just really hard to articulate. We tried to do it as best we could in the book. Um, but it's just a very unique experience where you're, you are, you're detached, you're watching yourself kind of go down the trail suffering. And it's just like, you get to the point where you're at total peace.
because you're having that out of body experience watching yourself learn, grow, change, adapt, evolve. It's just really, it's kind of this unique spiritual experience.
Tim Doyle (35:20.102)
If it's even possible to put into words, what was like the worst of the worst pain? Like what did that feel like?
James (35:28.878)
Yeah, that's a good one. I imagine it would be what the depths of hell feel like. Not knowing what that feels like either. I mean, it's just hard. It's hard to understand. You you get to a point where. Oh, this is the threshold of pain and this is how you develop mental toughness, right? You get to a threshold of pain and then the pain really doesn't get any worse. You just learn how to manage that because the body is designed to shut down if you reach beyond a threshold of what you can do. And again, it's a skill set. You can learn to manage different levels of pain and.
Tim Doyle (35:33.306)
Hahaha
James (35:57.614)
If you're managing with a certain level of pain, it becomes the new normal, right? And your baseline changes. so that's, you sometimes that's great because you're learning how to deal with trauma. But it's also bad because you're now suppressing what that trauma is and it's going to manifest a different way in a physical form in yourself later. And so it's, you know, it's almost impossible to describe because everybody's baseline and experience is going to be different in dealing with that type of pain and discomfort.
Going back to what you said earlier about how you almost got stronger through the 50 50 50. And that happens as well with the Cocker 100 where I find it really fascinating you weigh yourself over halfway in and you weigh 173.8 pounds and somebody would probably think like, all right, he probably lost 20 to 25 pounds, but he weighed you weighed the exact same. And it's also on day 88.
you record your fastest bike time throughout the entire Conquer 100. How do you explain both of these things? Especially I find the weight thing so fascinating.
James (37:42.816)
Yeah, it came from the knowledge and experience that we had during the 50 was like, we are withering away, we are losing weight, we are losing muscle mass. And so we knew that, okay, you're building strength by biking every single day, you're building upper body strength by swimming every single day, you're doing physical activities. Like there's a lot of resistance in cycling and there's a lot of resistance in swimming. And so you can actually develop lean muscle mass doing those activities despite it being an endurance sport.
The key there is the volume of food you can eat. And if I do have a gift, it's I have an iron gut. but I've trained it over a long period of time to be able to consume that. so it, again, me maintaining that weight was just mass consumption of food and, and, and fueling my body properly and getting faster was just.
doing something repetitive, the art of specificity. I was doing the exact same thing every single day. You want to get better at squatting? Squat every day. You want to get better at pushups? Push up, do pushups every day. You're not going to do pushups every day and become a better squatter and vice versa, right? And so I was cycling every single day. We were doing a hundred plus miles every single day. And we were also doing it in like zone, zone one and zone two.
And that builds strength. And though sometimes out there we'd get bored and we'd hammer it for 30 seconds just for fun and some variety or someone would take off or whatever this case was. And so we were kind of doing some intervals out there some days, or it'd be like a really hard push into some wind that we had to do. And so it was just like this perfect low zone training where you get stronger over time. And by the end of this thing, by the end of the a hundred days, I went to UCLA and they did the medical tests on me and my
My power output and everything in my cardiovascular system was better than it was when I started, when all the experts says like, you're gonna dwindle, you're gonna get worse, you're gonna get deteriorate. One, we maintained our body weight and two, all metrics improved in terms of performance. And so that completely shocked the medical industry and debunked everything they believed about human potential.
Tim Doyle (39:48.742)
Bookend that bike record on day 88. Walk me through your bike accident.
James (39:57.166)
Yeah, so day 59, obviously broke our own world record. I got to reset my own history and any mistakes that we had made. We silenced every critic. And now it became just like, boys, let's wake up today and break our record. Let's wake up today, break our record. So it became a lot of fun. But it was also during that, you know, I call it in the book, I call it the blue collar working days. Like the excitement from the beginning is over. You got to 50, you proved yourself right.
And then now you're in like, okay, I still have like 50 more to go. So everyone kept saying you're halfway there. And I'm like, I'm only halfway. And then 59, I was in this like really random accident that was nobody's fault. But I was knocked unconscious, ended up cracking my L5 vertebrae in that had a bulging disc and was just like in the heat of the moment, the accident.
I was just like, Oh man, I'm so, so grateful. didn't break my collarbones. Adrenaline sets in and I'm like, let's go. And so we finished the bike ride. And then by the end of the marathon that night, the adrenaline had worn off. I'm like, my back was in a ton of pain and now I'm feeling the road ration everywhere. I obviously had a concussion and so I'm like, this brain fog is there. And that was the moment where I'm like, Holy hell, I have 41 more to go. And if you, if I thought I was broken on day five, I am literally
broken. And there are so many things that happened between day five and 59 that made our situation even worse. But man, you get to that moment and you're like, what are we doing? You really start to question. that's where you're, the reason why you're doing something has to become so important. It's in those moments that people quit. That's the peak of
The pain, that's the anxiety, that's the depression, that's my world is collapsing in on me, that's I'm backed into a corner. Now what do you do? And it's not that moment that defines you, it's what you do next.
Tim Doyle (42:03.302)
Here we go.
James (42:04.322)
Here we go. Yep. At the highest level.
Tim Doyle (42:08.314)
this accident repeats itself from the standpoint of you replaying the memory of it. And what I find so fascinating is that you have a conscious awareness and getting more so into the mind body effect of this is that you understand that the mental and emotional stress of replaying that memory will manifest into physiological stress on your body. How did you go about managing this and
James (42:14.296)
Hmm.
James (42:35.79)
Yeah, so this is kind of where we will shift to the kind of the concept of fear and allowing fear to dictate how you're doing. Because, know, day 60, I wake up, I'm back on the bike and I'm like, who's going to crash? Someone crash in front of me. And then like the next week, another crash happened that I narrowly avoided. so now this like, I still got 30 more to go. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like, when's the next crash happening? And so like in life, we
allow the anticipation of a fear of an event control us and dictate us and stop us from moving forward. That fear alone of another crash happening would have derailed a lot of people. And that's what happens in life is they allow that fear, that moment to dictate them. I, and I over time said, no, that, that fear is irrational because that bike crash, I mean, I've put in probably a million miles, you know,
That's probably an exaggeration, a lot of miles. And that happened one time. And so the percentage of that happening again in the next 30 days were so astronomical. Yet I was allowing that that that incident to completely control me. And so once I started to framework it and understand that's an anomaly, that fear doesn't even make sense. Then it allowed me to work through that, right? Because fear and excitement, we have the same.
physical reactions to it. Like this should become a knowledge. And so it now becomes, I mentally, am I going to tell myself this is excitement over fear? Then it changes the narrative to it and now it becomes exciting and allows us to get through it. And so once I started to have those realizations and those conversations in the moment as it's happening, overcoming that fear and turning it into excitement and every day we're getting closer and closer and that's really such an anomaly that happened. A thought,
is just a thought. It's the emotions and feelings that we give towards that thought that dictate how we react, right? And so I was having those thoughts and it was up to me to decide how I navigated those thoughts.
Tim Doyle (44:46.394)
And is that other people helping you through that process as well? Or is that your own internal dialogue and you're able to work through that on your own?
James (44:53.87)
Yeah, I mean, obviously other people before that moment to help me with those understanding the education and you know that those kind of things. But in those moments, it's only you. You're the one that has to like nobody else is in your thought in your head with you. Like it's just you. And so and I think that's another thing that people have gotten away from one of them being listening to their intuition. But two is taking the quiet, silent time to just think, dissect, analyze process. We are so reactionary nowadays.
they said this, I'm going to do this. They did this to me. I'm going to do this instead of being like, Hmm, why did they do that? Why is that happening? How, how can I navigate that differently? If I choose this, what would be a possible outcome? And if I went down this road, what would it look like? Right. And so we haven't, we're so plugged in and distracted and living eight seconds at a time, somebody else's journey that we're forgetting to re you know, live our own and process what, what we're going through.
and how to navigate our own thoughts and emotions. And so that was, you know, when you're out there on the bike, you have a really, you know, you're not, having, you know, deep, meaningful conversations with people. You're, you're in there with your own thoughts and your processing and thinking. do a lot of my best thinking, my best meditation, my best dreaming when I'm out on my bike, because I'm, disconnected. I'm, I'm, I'm out in nature. I'm outside. I'm feeling the energy of the world and
those are the best moments where I've been able to forgive myself for my past and also dream about an unknown, very exciting future.
Tim Doyle (46:31.152)
June 8th, day 100. Your wife, Sunny, keeps that same mentality of like we were talking about earlier, where it's like, we're not trying to accomplish Cocker 100. We're just taking it one step at a time. And she says to you, I just need you to start. When you finish the run and it's all over, what is that feeling like?
James (46:32.812)
Let's go.
James (46:55.938)
Day 100.
Wow. If, if, you know, there, there's, there's an extension to that story, right? Cause if you read the book or watch it, yeah. So outside of that specific scenario on a normal, get to day 100, you accomplish the goal. The feeling is a massive exhale, right? It's this moment of relief, almost a, my gosh, we actually did that. Right. And so it's just like exhale, the satisfaction.
Tim Doyle (47:07.482)
We're getting there. We're getting there.
James (47:27.924)
this relief, the sense of pride, teamwork, all of it comes into one. It's just like this overwhelming, beautiful exhale.
Tim Doyle (47:40.71)
So I watched the celebration video when you're on stage and you're talking and some guy in the crowd screams out, what's on the agenda for tomorrow? And everyone starts laughing and you just say, know, lax-a-daisley like, I'm sleeping in.
What is the deeper message behind then getting up the next day and doing 101 triathlons and to an extent making it the conquer 101 instead of the 100?
James (48:14.476)
Yeah, so there's actually multiple components to this. The first one was I knew based off experience, everyone from stage after the 50 when I was speaking, they were like, could you have done one more? And I was like, yeah, of course I could have. But then they were they're always like, but you didn't. And so I'm like, OK. And this this concept didn't come to way into the 90s because early in the journey, Casey was like, dude, wouldn't be so fun. This is like day nine. Wouldn't it be so fun if, you know,
When this is all over me, you and Aaron, the three of us go do one more. And I was like, you shut your mouth. It's not happening. I'm broken. We can't do it. And then like day 94, I was like, Hey Casey, you remember that conversation we had? I said, think it's possible, you know, because, you know, again, it all depends on how we framework stuff early on day 90 or day nine. It was like, I can't imagine doing one more. And then you get to like 94 and you're like, well, what's one more, right? Nothing changed except for my belief system and where I was on the journey.
And so, I knew I'd be getting on stages again. It's my career. And I didn't want to be asked the question, could have you gotten up and done one more? And I'd be hypocritical if I got on stage and they'd like, Hey man, I know you beat, I know you're broken. I know you're defeated, but you can get up and do one more. Right. And then they're like, well, why didn't you do one more? I just wanted to, I wanted to nip that, that conversation in the butt real quick, but, but really one of my favorite stories, is the stories, a story about the marathon monks and the Japanese monks.
who ran a marathon a day for like a thousand days. It's broken up over three years.
If you start the journey, it's a meditative type journey, a very personal solitude type journey. There's prayers and things that they said along this path, the base of this mountain that they were circling. And if you start this journey, you can quit at any time between day one and 100. But if you start day 101 and then you quit any time after between 101 and 1000,
James (50:21.966)
You have to sacrifice yourself, take your own life. And there's monuments on this trail of monks that lost the battle, the conversation with themselves and took their own lives. And to me, day 101 was a commitment to myself of excellence for the rest of my life. And so for me, business wise, was like, 101, don't ask me if I could have gotten done one or more. I'm going to teach a principle that leaders, they lead and they lead from the front.
But on a personal level, was less like commitment to myself. Like I'm committing right now from day one to one, to whenever the number is, I'm committing to excellence. And, and I wake up every single day with that on my heart.
Tim Doyle (51:09.634)
Love that. And that's the same type of mindset that I think goes towards 75 hard as well, where like, I like to say day 76 is the most important day of days of 75 hard. Cause it's like, it's easy to do it within the event, but it's like, can you hold that standard for yourself when you don't have that sort of event that you're doing or that, that accomplishment where it's just like, Hey, this is just the way that I live my life now.
James (51:36.162)
Yeah, I'm going to get some hate and some pushback for this and I don't really care. I'm not really impressed by anybody that does 75 hard and then goes back to their normal life. Because at that point it's like, well, why did you do that? The point of 75, I just talked to Andy two days ago. was just at headquarters at first form. The point of 75 hard is to change your life. And it has nothing to do with the 75 days. It's what you learn in those 75 days that propels you for the rest of your life.
Tim Doyle (51:59.622)
Yeah.
James (52:06.284)
I'll get some more hate. I'm not impressed by anybody that loses weight. I'm impressed when you keep the weight off. Because if you lose weight and put it back on, you didn't learn what you needed to learn and do it. And congratulations, it takes courage to keep doing it up and down, up and down, up and down. But I'm impressed and really proud of you for all of it. But it becomes permanent when you keep it off and you've actually changed the way that you live in your life and showing up for you. Right? No judgment. If you're awake, great. Awesome. You're great.
If you're thin, great. If you're strong, great. It's your life. I don't care. It doesn't impact me. But if you've lost 100 pounds, I'm impressed when you keep the 100 pounds off. all of it's impressive. I'm not saying that. I'm not taking away anything of that. But to your point, it's really impressive when you've changed because then you've learned and it's the purpose. Like you went on this journey. Let's not lose that. Let's apply that to the rest of our lives. And so if you're on a weight loss journey,
Learn what you need. Don't do crash diets. Do it right. Take the steps it takes to do it. Educate yourself and give yourself that grace and be patient in that process of losing the weight. I would rather see somebody lose 30 pounds over a year than 30 pounds in three months. Your chances of keeping it off and sustaining it the first way are limited. Did you know not a single, it might be one person.
And you might be too young. Do you remember the TV show Biggest Loser? Yeah. They all put it back on. It's because it was, yeah, for sure. Let's go visit them all again. They've all put it back on. And I feel terrible for those individuals because they're living in bondage for food. It's an addiction. It's nasty. But it's because, full circle to our conversation earlier, they're not dealing with the emotions of why they put that weight on.
Tim Doyle (53:35.652)
Yep. Not a single one kept it off. That'd be a great TV show in itself. Like this is the after.
James (53:58.998)
And so part of your weight loss journey has to include emotional therapy and figuring out what was the incident or the incidences that the trauma that happened to you that led you to this food addiction. And sometimes there's not those incidents and it's just a lifestyle change you need to make. Lack of education, the environment you were brought up in, but those individuals that are like on that show, there's some trauma. And the reason they all put it back on is because they weren't.
they weren't dealing with the trauma that had happened. And so was impressive that they lost it. It would have been more impressive had the show educated them and gave them the tools they needed to keep it.
Tim Doyle (54:37.636)
Yeah, I like to think of that. And I think it can really help people where it's like, we're not trying to accomplish goals. We're trying to build systems where it's like, yes, that is the, it's almost like it becomes the byproduct. It's like the systems that we're trying to build is like, these are the foods that we're trying to eat. This is the exercise that we're going to try to do. Like that is the goal. And then just a natural byproduct of that is that you are going to lose weight.
James (55:01.388)
Dude, I'm almost 50 and I know my body. I know what to eat. Guess what I do every damn day. I track my food. I know what I'm eating. I know how much I'm eating. I get so frustrated. Yeah, it's part of the system and a byproduct of the system is yeah, and a byproduct of the system is health. And it's so funny. I just did a podcast before this and gave the same analogy, but a lot of young people right now.
Tim Doyle (55:15.332)
And that becomes part of the ritualistic that just becomes very like you you get up and you just know what you're doing.
James (55:31.338)
this audience, like you're preparing for a financial future or you have a business and you have a business plan and you know your ins and your outs and your metrics and you know what the cost is and you know what the ROI is and all these things. Do you know what it is with food consumption? Do you know what it is with your health? Are you measuring every aspect of food in, food out, calories burned, micros, macros, all these things? If you do with business, why don't you do with your health? And if your health goes, you can't run your business effectively. So
Your health instantly becomes no more priority. And I love this quote. says, you've got, you've got 99 problems till your health is one, then you have one problem. And so that's the case. Why aren't we prioritizing our health over anything else? And you wouldn't flippantly, haphazardly approach a business as an entrepreneur or at your job or for your retirement or whatever it is. You wouldn't guess on what it is.
Yet we do every single day with our food.
Tim Doyle (56:32.004)
agree. So, CONCUR100, the event ends in that 100 or 101 day span, but the effects of it are way after that from the standpoint of the toll it takes on your body. What did the recovery process look
James (56:50.508)
Yeah, you know, most people move on to the next shiny object, the next individual doing a big thing. But that journey was probably three years long in terms of healing my body, in terms of re-wiring the trauma from my brain and the pathways that I'd closed off. I got stuck in hyperdrive, fight or flight. I couldn't get to parasympathetic. And so it was a journey. Man, I would say for sure the post two years after the Kongo 100 were maybe harder than that.
the hundred itself because I knew I knew how to do a hundred. I didn't know how to fix myself. And we cover all that in.
Tim Doyle (57:32.518)
I believe it's not the physical accomplishment itself that matters most, but it's the wisdom that we can garner from things like that because like the event, it comes and goes the accomplishment. That's great. But having conversations like this and being able to talk to you. And I think a large part of, you know, physical feeds, obviously you can talk to other people and help other people and share that wisdom, but it's also that own internal relationship that you build.
with yourself doing stuff like this, what do you think you learned about yourself the most out there doing this?
James (58:08.558)
To be hyper hyper present in what you're doing. We have no idea what the future ever holds. To give yourself grace in moments. That this too shall pass both good and bad. Trust the process, believe in a team. And to let go of control.
Tim Doyle (58:31.43)
James, it's been great speaking with you. And my favorite part of your story actually isn't something that we talked about at all, or you briefly mentioned it earlier. And it goes way before any of this Conquer 100 and the 50, 50, 50. And it's about how you said earlier, how you lost your mortgage business in 2008. And you're a mortgage lender and you say, if I hadn't lost my mortgage business, I'd still be running it today.
And you gave your two definitions of suffering, which I thought thought was really interesting. And I never thought of it that way. And I want to share my two ways of looking at suffering. And it's a little different. I see it as willing suffering and unwilling suffering where it's like you took on this willing suffering of I'm putting myself through some serious pain with these endurance activities. But there's also that unwilling suffering of, you know, you didn't ask to lose your business, but I just find it.
So cool. this is a lot of the conversation that I have with people and something that I preach a lot about just like how much good can come from unwilling challenges and unwilling pain that you don't ask to come into your life. And it's just so cool how that was kind of the launching pad for you and everything that you're doing.
James (59:48.006)
I think that's the gift that people aren't understanding. And it's actually part of life is the gift of dealing with hardship and things that we didn't ask for necessarily want that. That's how you get molded into who you are. And if you're struggling right now and things seems impossible, things seem impossible. I want to say congratulations because it's an opportunity and you'll look back at that moment and go.
my gosh, I'm the person I am today because of that rock bottom.
Tim Doyle (01:00:21.414)
James, can people go to connect with you, see all of your incredible work, see your book, everything?
James (01:00:27.82)
Yeah, our new book, Iron Hope, is available anywhere books are sold. You can get it at airports, Barnes and Noble, Target, you name it. Anything we're doing, you can also grab a signed copy from our website, ironcowboy.com, and we post anything we're doing on that website and on our social media on Instagram at ironcowboyjames.
Tim Doyle (01:00:52.656)
James, great speaking with you today.
James (01:00:54.36)
Thanks brother, appreciate it Tim.
