The Outworker
Stories of healing, personal development, and inner work. Founded on the idea that the relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect, The Outworker shares conversations aimed at helping you develop that relationship.
The Outworker
#053 - Katie Spotz - 70 Days Alone At Sea & A New Outlook On Personal Development
What drives someone to row solo across the Atlantic Ocean? Katie Spotz shares how she built the mental endurance to spend 70 days alone at sea, the role of meditation in overcoming fear, and how endurance challenges became a platform for providing clean water to thousands. But reaching land wasn’t the end—it sparked a deeper journey. She opens up about losing her sense of purpose, how stepping away from endurance for a year helped her re-center through faith, and how she’s returned with a renewed mindset and a healthier relationship with challenge.
Timestamps:
00:00 Comfortability With Solitude
04:45 Finding Enjoyment In Endurance Not Found In Team Sports
10:20 Higher Calling With Endurance
15:49 Taking A Different Path At A Young Age
22:23 A Day In The Life When Training
25:07 Bad Accident 4 Months Before Atlantic Crossing
30:21 External Doubters & Ordinary People Doing Extraordinary Things
32:47 Small Frame Mentality Rowing 3,000 Miles
36:10 Morning & Nighttime Routines
37:54 Completely Alone At Sea
41:11 Needing To Row Farther Than Expected
44:37 Real Test Is After Accomplishing The Atlantic
50:58 Stepping Away From Endurance
53:39 The Impact Of Faith
56:53 Stepping Away From What Helped You Grow
1:02:23 Climbing Mt. Kilimanjaro & Evolved Mindset
1:09:36 Connect With Katie Spotz
1:10:04 Katie Going On Joe Rogan's Podcast
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What’s up outworkers. What drives someone to row solo across the Atlantic Ocean? Katie Spotz shares how she built the mental endurance to spend 70 days alone at sea, the role of meditation in overcoming fear, and how endurance challenges became a platform for providing clean water to thousands. But reaching land wasn’t the end—it sparked a deeper journey. She opens up about losing her sense of purpose, how stepping away from endurance for a year helped her re-center through faith, and how she’s returned with a renewed mindset and a healthier relationship with challenge.
Tim Doyle (00:06.993)
Why do you think you've always been so comfortable in a solitude setting?
Katie Spotz (00:12.686)
After spending 70 days alone at sea, I, I definitely was grateful that I worked with a sports psychologist who walked me through and, and kind of went through what I might expect to feel and what to do if, if I did start feeling lonely or isolated. But I think.
working with a sports psychologist and then also doing these extensive meditation retreats. So I would do, I've done a few of these retreats where you'd be meditating about 10 to 12 hours a day for 10 days straight. It's called a Vipassana retreat. So I did a couple of those and I think that really helped me, I mean, go through the practice of being with myself and not having
a distraction or an escape and sitting with uncomfortable feelings and sensations. so meditation and working with a sports psychologist were probably the two biggest tools. But before spending 70 days alone at sea for rowing the Atlantic, I hadn't spent more than maybe a day by myself. So it was still a huge leap of faith to go from, you know, maybe I was sick and at home for a day.
and didn't go out to 70 days alone. But what's also very encouraging is even if you're in the middle of an ocean, thousands of miles away, those connections, those friendships, those bonds, I still felt them wherever I am. So I knew my friends and family were back at home. And so I could do these things knowing that that support is still there, even if it's not physically there.
Tim Doyle (02:07.901)
What do you think you learned the most about yourself in those meditation sessions?
Katie Spotz (02:13.294)
I think the impermanence is something that you're very aware of that no matter how strong of a feeling emotion that there is this riding of the wave. I think it just made me a little bit more comfortable. it's so easy to distract ourselves and I, and
maybe part of that desire to distract is this fear of, if I'm sitting with myself, just like the fear of yourself. So I, I mean, I didn't know what it would be like to be alone that long. And so, you know, you hear about stories of like people going crazy and talking to inanimate objects. And I think it's just like,
encouraging to know that we are capable of doing these things and coming out. And I think the most challenging, well, one of the more challenging parts was just the adjustment. So we're very adaptable, but the adjustment from being on land to being on the boat versus being out of that solitary confinement back in public, think,
those were the moments where, you know, just jumping from one extreme to the next was, yeah, probably, probably the most difficult part of, of that experience. But at a certain point, anything you are experiencing just becomes life. I like, wasn't expecting to see anyone at a certain point. So I just accepted that that was my new norm, my new reality. mean, yeah.
getting hit by flying fish in the middle of the Atlantic was my new reality and that became life at a certain point. So it's funny that we, I mean, it's cool that we can adapt in such a dramatic way.
Tim Doyle (04:24.519)
So rowing solo across the Atlantic Ocean, when somebody hears that, they're probably, the first question is like, how does somebody even get into that? So taking a step back, how do you think your lack of enjoyment with team sports when you were younger played into your enjoyment and your relationship with endurance activities and sports?
Katie Spotz (04:48.858)
Yeah. So there are a lot of differences between the enjoyment of endurance and the enjoyment of team sports. And I will do team sports, like my friends and I sometimes do pickleball or volleyball. And so I very much now can see, you know, why, why, why that's enjoyable, just to hang out with new people and have fun and, team sports.
You win, you lose, tie. Endurance, you get to answer this question, which is, what is the limit? What is the human potential? What am I capable of? And the sky is the limit. our bodies and minds are always changing. So this is this ever evolving quest to see what we're made of. I...
We last to a hundred years, right? We live a long life if we're lucky. And I think endurance is very much in our DNA. And with endurance, it's kind of like we all have this superhero ability to, you don't just wake up and go out of bed. It requires training and dedication and time and patience. And it is a long journey to get there, but
Endurance is kind of like getting in touch with this superhuman type ability we have to just keep going and going and going when all the odds seem stacked against you and you feel like you have nothing left and then you still keep going and then you get a new reserve of energy. it's like you have like some of these events, for example, a hundred mile run, you can go through
these intense highs and lows and all these emotions, it's like you have one lifetime in one day. And so there's a lot that endurance gave me that I couldn't really find in team sports. In team sports, I was physically there, but mentally I wasn't really tuned in. If I was playing basketball or if I was...
Katie Spotz (07:07.222)
doing baseball, I'd be picking dandelions in the outfield. So like as a kid, I just didn't, it didn't click for me. And so I, I think when you, when you aren't that competitive, you, you, you assume the role or the position of bench warmer. So I thought at a young age that I just wasn't athletic and that, you know, sports weren't for me. And, and it was through being able to run one mile.
through a gym class that I was like, wow, I didn't think I could ever do that. What else can I do that I'm saying I can't do that? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about, and if I'm wrong about this, what are all the other things that I'm wrong about? And so endurance gave me a way to really question what is true. And it doesn't have to be endurance. Endurance just happened to be it for me, but.
It enabled me to have that conversation with myself about, you know, limits and what limits are real and what ones are perceived. And I mean, there will be people who tell me to this day, I could never run a marathon. And my first question is always, well, what one have you tried? And everyone always says, yeah, I haven't actually tried. And I'm like, well, no one who runs marathons doesn't at least try. So,
The truth is we don't actually know unless we try. And so I'm, I'm just, yeah, always curious about what we can do when we get out of our own way. And, so that's, that's what endurance does. And, it's, it's, it's, I don't know. It's, it's quite the journey. If you, if any listeners are want to, to embark on that and see.
what they're capable of. mean, I think they'll be surprised that they can do more than they think.
Tim Doyle (09:09.031)
I've heard you talk about that with a lot of the endurance activities that you do. It's not so much just the act of doing it, but it almost feels like a higher calling at times. When did you make that shift or when did you start feeling that if like, okay, this isn't just about me doing this, but now there feels like this greater sense of purpose.
Katie Spotz (09:32.586)
Yeah, so good question. I found out about the water crisis while I was living in Australia and they had a drought that was affecting when they could water their grass, if they could wash their car. And I was already primed to be on alert about like, wait, what's going on with water? And we're in a very developed country and we're freaking out and the headlines and the news. And it was just everywhere you look.
and this perpetual state of fear of the water running out. And it was at that time I was taking an environmental science class and the professor mentioned that the wars of the future will be on water and in some countries it's already the case, especially in Africa, countries going to war over water. And all I could think of is being born and raised on the Great Lakes, having Lake Erie in my backyard.
having so much abundance that you can drive past the golf course and you can see the sprinklers going on or water parks and anywhere, any restaurant you go to, you get water for free. mean, all I knew was abundance. And so when I started peeling the layers and learning about this issue, it was so hard not to want to do something. I mean, I know we can't all agree to everything.
but everyone can agree to clean water living in a world where everyone everywhere has access to clean water. I've never heard anyone say, I don't think people could have clean water. So it's a universal need. And when I, know, there are some problems we don't have solutions to, we will need to spend millions of dollars on researching, solutions and water's not one of them. We do have some proven.
tested solutions for clean drinking water. And so when you know how important it is, when you know that there's ways to fix this problem, that this problem doesn't need to exist. And if you look at all the problems in the world, I mean, this is not just health. It's not just environment. It's just, it's not just
Katie Spotz (11:53.034)
youth. It's not just women. It's not just education. It's everything. And it is the first step to a life out of poverty. And so it is the solution to so many other and it is the route to so many other issues and it's a justice thing. And so I knew I wanted to do something and endurance became that.
way to do something. So to date, doing all these different adventures, nearly 50,000 people have gained access to clean water. So there's been a row for water, a swim for water, a ride for water, even a skate for water, doing a hike for water this year. so I started fundraising through Endurance about a decade ago and
It's just really great to see that that model works and people are more familiar with the idea of, you know, sponsoring a mile or working with, with local Rotary clubs or businesses or schools to try to use this as a legitimate fundraising tool. So, it's been amazing to see, how many people, I mean, it's a drop in the bucket, but when you add all.
It's a very grassroots approach, but I've been able to see, you know, I mean, just like these challenges, you always take them one step at a time. And with the water crisis, it is also just one person at a time. And we, we've done a lot. And so it's, it's cool to see. And with water, you can see the projects. It's not just the money goes somewhere and then you wonder, did it actually help?
The water charities around today are very impressive with being able to track and monitor every dollar that goes through and having different sensors on the water projects. And so there is that personal connection to this project that might be thousands of miles away. water, water is the cause that keeps me going for doing these challenges for sure.
Tim Doyle (14:14.493)
So this greater purpose for you is born in Australia. And what's also born in Australia is the idea of rowing across the Atlantic. You're on a bus ride and you learn about this and you're like, that sounds interesting. So you started, there was two years between you having the idea for this and then preparing for it and actually rowing across the Atlantic solo.
Katie Spotz (14:19.885)
way.
Tim Doyle (14:42.963)
So you started prepping for this your senior year at Warren Wilson college, and you were also in a business and entrepreneurship class at the time. And you use this as the business that you were creating this whole business model around, which I find really fascinating because, okay, so senior year, most kids are trying to enjoy their final year of college, trying to get a job to enter into the real world.
and you're on a totally different ball game where you're preparing to row solo across the Atlantic. Have you always felt comfortable in doing your own thing like that rather than needing to work within the environment that you're in?
Katie Spotz (15:32.046)
well, I will say that I tried to talk myself out of rowing the Atlantic. Like I definitely was like, it's going to be hard. You're going to have to give up this and that financially. It's this is a sport for rich kids and you're not one of that. Like I go through the list. mean,
You might die. who am I to think I could do this? And I really tried to stuff it down and ignore it and hope it would go away. And it didn't. And what that looked like is just like curiosity, researching other people who had done it. And that turned into just that, well, what would it really be like to be out there? And
I've heard of so many other challenges, but this one was so different because you do a marathon, you come back home, you take a shower, you get your meal, you hang out with your friends and family. During the race, there's people cheering you on. You have watermelon, they're throwing tasty things your way, or at least at the end. And this is like, it hits on so many levels. hits on.
this, you know, I've thought that what was particularly exciting and interesting about the row is that in most situations you can find your exit, you know, in a marathon, you could just stop running and no one would even notice, with the row, there was no option but to overcome. I,
I don't know, there was something about knowing that you couldn't call anyone, really had to, no matter what happened, you had to figure out a way. And because you were forced to, I just thought that it could, I don't know, enable you to dig deeper than you ever thought you could. I don't know, I just felt like the ultimate test. I think when I think of...
Katie Spotz (17:49.634)
doing that journey, think of like, you have your front row center to a National Geographic episode. I mean, you're seeing and experiencing parts of the world that most people won't. And we have a big, beautiful world out there to explore and why not see it? And so I did try to ignore this idea, but it kept coming back and, you know, it...
It does seem like a very illogical thing to do to row an ocean. Like, you can fly and it's just, what's the point? And it's very dangerous. And, I really did try, but I was faced with, I was either going to row the Atlantic or spend the rest of my life wondering why I didn't. And to me, regret is the worst. Yeah. That was my worst thing I could ever face is.
being 80, 90, being on my deathbed, being, and looking back and wondering what if I actually lived the life that I felt called to live. you know, it didn't make sense, but I always had that, you know, that curiosity that never went away. And so maybe I wasn't the best rower. Maybe I didn't have,
big sponsors and didn't come from wealth. I, you know, but it might not make sense on paper, but I knew that within me was this thing that wouldn't go away until I actually tried. And so it was a very difficult decision, but I knew I had to answer to that nagging, gnawing feeling of like,
And I couldn't live like that. And the truth is, if you ignore those feelings, one, becomes, anything you do becomes habit. So if you start ignoring it, then you build this life of just ignoring all the things you actually want to do. And then it gets harder and harder to do the things you want to do when you're, and at a certain point, those passions might not even come up anymore because what's the point? You're not going to listen to them anyways. So.
Katie Spotz (20:07.35)
I just felt like it was important at a young age to honor that call. What I felt was a calling because I mean, when things don't make sense, when it's just so much bigger than the picture you imagined for your life, I do feel like that there was a calling element to it. So, no, no, it was not easy. And I mean, there were times when I was like,
you know, bother someone else. Like I don't, I don't want this, but I'm, you know, I'm very glad that I was able to keep moving forward even when it was difficult to do that. And yeah, now it's to the point where I do feel more like I can trust whatever that is now because it has brought me to places that
I'm really grateful to have experienced.
Tim Doyle (21:11.421)
I like that you talk more in terms of curiosity rather than ambition from the standpoint of asking yourself questions like what would it like to be out there? Like what would it like to be in the moment actually doing this rather than strictly just speaking from ambition of like, I am going to accomplish this. Like I am just trying to accomplish this, which I think is really fascinating where that's where the real desire to come from.
where it's like, Ooh, I'm getting this feeling of wanting to be there in the moment rather than simply just trying to do it for this physical feat. So you make the decision that, okay, I am doing this. What would a typical day in the life look like for you, look like for you preparing for this from a physical training perspective?
Katie Spotz (22:02.094)
Well, to be honest, doing things like my like 100 mile runs and Ironmans, I have been able to physically train more for those than the Atlantic simply because there was fundraising and logistics and media. And, you know, if you if you have X number of hours a week, they're just really there's not enough time in the day to to add training and.
in a significant way. So, I mean, the most I probably would train would be an hour or two a day. And then on the weekends, I could do like a four to six hour training row. when I talk about those, it's, it's more like getting to know the gear and you're not, these are not all out efforts. They are, they are as cruisy as they need to be to be able to keep on going and going the next day. So.
If I was doing any kind of harder training, would be the shorter, durations during the week, but, it, looked like the longer rows on the weekends, rowing a couple of times during the week and then running and weight training and some stretching. So yeah, I, did follow somewhat of a similar kind of theme to training for a marathon where
weekends I might progressively go a little bit further, but I also had to play around with like, okay, what's the weather like this weekend or are there any, fundraising commitments? So it was a fit in when you can, but if I didn't have a boat, if I didn't have oars, if I didn't have all, if I didn't ship my boat, there wouldn't be no, ocean row. So being as fit as possible was secondary to.
having the pieces necessary to actually do this thing. So yeah, I mean, I did do some things like I made sure my core was strong to do things to prevent injury because if you don't have good form, that it can be very easy to get injured. So with anything where you're doing repetitive motions. So I did more with that, but
Katie Spotz (24:23.66)
Yeah, I guess the training happened out on the ocean. Like the first three days were lit. I think for most adventures, I find the first three days to be the adjustment period. And then after that, your body kind of settles into it.
Tim Doyle (24:41.469)
Four months before starting, you had a bad accident on Lake Erie. How did you mentally navigate everything after that happened?
Katie Spotz (24:50.562)
That was very difficult. I nearly lost the boat. There were actually holes in it. I didn't think it would, I wasn't sure if it would be ready in time. So that would mean there's only a small window that you can do the crossing. And so if I didn't have the boat right in time for that, then I'd have to wait another 12 months. And, yeah, I
remember when the boat was being rescued from this accident, people were asking me if I can't even row on Lake Erie, why do I think I can row the Atlantic? so yeah, on all fronts, it was such a blow. some of my family were relieved because they thought it meant the journey was over. Like, well, you don't have a boat anymore. So now you could stay and not do this dangerous thing. So
You know, you don't want people celebrating your, your failures, but I knew it was because they wanted me to be safer and not on the Atlantic alone. so yeah, there was even this question of, insurance going to cover the damages? And I, the, the next time that I rode the boat after that accident was on the Atlantic. So it was because.
It took months to rebuild and it takes months to ship. I didn't even have a chance to row the boat after that. So to go from getting in this really bad accident on Lake Erie to, now I'm on the Atlantic. was, I mean, yeah, it was very difficult. It would have been easier to quit in that moment. And of course I thought about it like, okay, is this, and...
I don't know. just felt like, well, in the Atlantic, there's nothing to hit. So we got that. because really the thing that makes Lake Erie dangerous and ocean rowing dangerous is hitting things. So I'm not going to hit anything other than potentially boats. And there's way more boats on Lake Erie than there are in the Atlantic. So.
Katie Spotz (27:12.65)
In some ways I felt like the Atlantic was safer than Lake Erie. So I felt like as long as I do everything I can within my control and there's still a chance to do it. I mean, if I looked at my, wasn't injured there really other than a huge blow to my ego and like being in the news, like I.
The New York Times did a piece right before and was like, it's unlikely she'll make it, but check her out. So yeah, I definitely, you know, wasn't feeling the greatest. My spirits were low, but my physical being was, you know, I wasn't injured. I think those were the things that I put in my head to make it possible for me to keep going, which is.
Insurance covered it. The boat was ready. I'm not injured and there's nothing to hit in the Atlantic other than other boats and you have a radar and you get on your VHF radio and you say, Hey, please don't hit me. So, yeah, I think. Truthfully knowing that.
that happened and then still going forward, it almost made, I wouldn't say the journey easier, but just knowing how much it required to get to the starting line, knowing it took two years, knowing it took going through that whole thing. It's like, by the time I hit the ocean, it was like,
It's really hard to explain, but it's like, already put so much into it. How much harder can it be from doing this two years of preparation? So in some ways I felt like that was part of my, mental toughness training. So to me, yeah.
Tim Doyle (29:17.388)
I like that perspective on it where it's like, okay, the toughest part of the trip is over now.
Katie Spotz (29:23.662)
And like, yeah, like how much harder can it be than like failing epically on a tiny lake and you're like, having everyone see that. And I mean, Yeah.
Tim Doyle (29:39.026)
It's quite the bounce back as well to hear that you have that accident and then, okay, I don't need any more training, let's just do it now.
Katie Spotz (29:49.548)
Well, there was no other training because the boat was being repaired. There was no choice. But yeah, so I was very rested, I guess. That's what I needed, to be very rested.
Tim Doyle (30:03.101)
Do you know who Christopher Magg is?
Katie Spotz (30:05.262)
yeah, yeah, yeah, from the, he did an article. Yeah.
Tim Doyle (30:12.753)
Yeah, he's the one who did that New York Times article. And there's just one little excerpt that I want to read it because I think it's fascinating. Spots who grew up in mentor Ohio seems an unlikely addition to the list of ocean crossers. She has little experience with boats of any kind and spent weeks last summer teaching herself about such rudiments as the rudder and tiller. Her nickname on her high school swim team was Turtle.
a reflection she said of her marginal athleticism. Even now she displays none of the exotic musculature, mammoth shoulders, triceps shaped like lobster claws that one might expect of a person who expects to row 2500 miles. And I just absolutely love it because it's so easy to get into the mindset of, okay, after the fact, you see a headline, Katie Spots rows across the Atlantic and you can just
paint this narrative or get into the structure of like, okay, must've been a very accomplished rower, very athletic, where in reality it's just like, no, you know, a few months before I crashed my boat and then I did this because I think people can get into this mindset of like, like I can't do that. or like, who am I to be able to do something like that as well? Whereas like in reality, it's like, I'm just another ordinary person and I set my mind to this.
Katie Spotz (31:41.454)
Yeah, I mean, I definitely was not a star athlete with the rowing thing. And yeah, it's great to know you don't need to be. We have control over how much determination and how much perseverance. That's a choice. So we all can choose to make the most with what we have.
I could go to any doctor right now and they wouldn't be like, your heart rate and all these vitals are off the charts. You can do pretty extraordinary things as an ordinary human. So yeah, I think if there's anything I'm gonna brag about, it's the fact that I was a bench warmer just to show people that they can probably do more than they think.
Tim Doyle (32:33.501)
You start this January 3rd, 2010 and you say, I'm not going to row 3000 miles. I'm going to row one mile 3000 times. How important was that small frame mentality for being able to do this?
Katie Spotz (32:47.518)
Yeah. So I was reaching the halfway mark on my journey and I was expecting that to be exciting because that's how it usually is when I do a marathon, when I do any of these, different competitions, the halfway mark is the point where you can say, I'm closer to the end than I am to the start. I knew what it took to get here. And I know what it will take to get to the end. And I reached the halfway mark and I had.
felt like I gave it all. I felt like there wasn't much left. I had pretty significant sleep deprivation. I was sick of the food. You know, it wore on me and I certainly wasn't feeling stronger. I think there are certain things you can do and you finish feeling stronger and there's others where you feel more depleted. So I definitely felt, I felt like a zombie. And so...
I, you know, had a meltdown and I was just like, I can't do this. And so that's where it, it, I just kind of like threw my hands up and said, okay, I'm not going to think about 3000 anymore. Like I would have a map and I would tick off my progress and, and I kind of just let it go and, and said, okay, I'm not going to row 3000 miles. It's just one mile. And that's all.
that my brain could wrap. Like if you said I had 1,500 more, I'd just be like, no, it was too overwhelming. So that focus, I really needed to shift it to, I mean, it could have been to the next song on my iPod, it could have been to the next hour, but the idea of seeing the enormity of it was just too much. the truth is, no matter what we're doing,
the biggest things like say you get a degree, right? And you're not looking at the number of papers you'd have to take, the number of hours you'd have to study, the number of tests you'd have to take. Like we don't really look at it that way. So I just kind of, okay, now we're going to look at it and just not look at each mile, but just focus on the next step. And I think we do this naturally in other parts of life.
Katie Spotz (35:15.508)
And so it was just kind of, yeah, just putting that focus on the next step. And the truth is that if you put your 100 % focus on the moment, the results take care of themselves. you know, there's a time and place to look at the end and the finish line. And there's a, there's a time to just say, okay, if I focus and give my all, the result will happen on its own. And so.
Uh, yeah, if you focus on one mile at a time, you can, uh, you can go pretty far away. So that, that is really the shift that I needed to make to, to finish.
Tim Doyle (35:56.871)
Did you follow any specific routines, whether it's in the morning to really get yourself energized for the day or at night to relax yourself and be able to sleep?
Katie Spotz (36:09.934)
I, I would, I guess a lot of it has to do with like in the morning, I definitely like would rehydrate and that was the first thing getting up and, I just being in the heat, in the sun, even sleeping, it was almost like being in a little sauna at times in there. So, hydration was a big part of that.
I mean, I would stretch in the morning a little bit and at night I did have audio books. either like audio books or comedians, like that would be my treat. I would reward myself for the day by listening to comedy at night or writing. Like I had a blog, so I would write for that or just do personal writing at night.
The thing about being on that boat is there's nothing else really to do but row. So I was rowing like at least I would say like 10 to 12 hours every day. Um, and little things like, I mean, even cooking things take three times longer just because the constant rocking and something as simple as brushing your teeth on a moving boat is, it can be a challenge. So, uh, yeah.
I did have to do some other basic things, but they did take a little bit longer just because of the movement.
Tim Doyle (37:43.527)
I was rowing in an ocean of unknowns and you play up that unknown factor too. You could have had a follow boat, but you didn't. Why didn't you choose to?
Katie Spotz (37:55.978)
Well, there's two reasons, two main reasons. One, money. Like it costs, I think, $30,000 to be a part of this race. And I really, first of all, I wanted to see as much money go to the cause. And the idea of that chunk not being devoted to clean water projects, it just didn't sit with me.
It's also, you're paying for the illusion of safety. During these races, there's usually one or two follow boats for a fleet of maybe like 50 boats. So the chances and likelihood of the boat being there exactly when you need it is very unlikely. So you're better off relying on my emergency beacon, which is what I had too. So it does kind of give you an illusion of safety that you would have by having
the emergency beacon, is a legal requirement. so there's that. And then I also, most ocean rowers will go island to island, the Canarias to the Caribbean because you're right within the trade winds and the currents. So, it is, there are, yeah, it is more challenging to go mainland to mainland, but
I really, wanted to continue the journey by bike. And so I did that this past year. But the idea of like starting on one island that looks very similar to the island you land on, it just didn't feel complete to me. And it, I don't know. I think there, I just thought it was a lot more exciting to
go from one major continent to another. like, you know, you see the goats on the beach in Africa with like, I don't know, visually Dakar is very different than going where there's the Amazon rainforest. And I, I loved that feeling of like, wow, I really did end up somewhere different and I can continue this journey by bike. So.
Katie Spotz (40:18.092)
This past year I continued and made it like, so the row was 3000 miles. And then I added on a 3000 mile, 3,300 mile, bike and kayak across South America. and I, yeah, it was kind of in combination with that row to make it a continuous journey. So I ended up from the Atlantic and now to the Pacific from.
cycling and kayaking across South America.
Tim Doyle (40:50.257)
You're clearly in it for the experience rather than simply just checking this off the box and check checking the box and getting this accomplishment. So like you said, you started in Africa and you go to South America and you end up taking a different route than what you originally planned and it adds 400 miles to the overall row. What was it like?
mentally and emotionally navigating that and then how far into the trip did you make that decision that you needed to change your route?
Katie Spotz (41:28.206)
Um, I want to say it was around day 60 or 62 that I was about a hundred miles away from reaching land. And then I had these 20, 25 foot waves and it's right near the continental shelf. So it's a part of the air. It's an area in the ocean that's known to be rough. Um, and if there were strong winds, then you can guarantee there's going to be big waves. And I knew from.
especially the accident on Lake Erie, that one, you have big waves, you will not land with precision. And so I would need a tow. I would need a boat to tow me to reach land. And I always envisioned this like not having a follow boat and just having it unassisted. That meant a lot to me as a solo rower. and so I had a weather guy and we had this plan B of
rowing 400 more miles. It could have added two more weeks to the journey rowing two countries west to Georgetown, Guyana. So the original plan was French Guiana. And yeah, it's a silly thing, but like there's moments where you're like, I'd give anything to get off this boat right now and have ice cream and you know, have air conditioning. And then there's other moments like at the end.
I was like, no, I'm not ready. I there's, and I anticipated the journey was going to be 70 to a hundred days. And so if I was at day 60 and the journey was ending, was kind of like, wait, this is 10 days sooner than I mentally had. And I had enough food. we went through, you know, went through, do I, am I injured? No. Am I mentally like, okay. Yes. In this moment. I mean, it's a moment by moment.
thing, and you know, how important was it to be unassisted? And it was that important to me. I don't know. It's just like, if you're going to do it, do it right. And if you're going to do it, do it complete. And I, what I spent two years preparing and for these 70 days, you might as well, you know, I, I didn't want to regret not doing it. didn't.
Katie Spotz (43:53.674)
And I felt like I could. so, yeah, that's how the decision was made to add on 400 more miles. And it ended up working out because I didn't need a boat to tow me in. And I was able to do that the last 400 miles and it ended up only adding like seven or eight more days. So it was, yeah, it wasn't the two weeks that I had originally thought it might take.
Tim Doyle (44:23.741)
So is 70 total days.
Katie Spotz (44:25.72)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (44:27.517)
So 70 total days you start in Africa and Senegal and then like you said to South America and Guyana.
You accomplished this truly remarkable, but what I find so fascinating and what I like most about your story is that it seems like the real challenge wasn't the row that was kind of like the prologue or the stepping stone to this much grander story and personal development of you afterwards. And the ethos for this show
And what has become kind of like the North star, which has played a pivotal role in my life is this line. The relationship with oneself is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect. And that's what I find really interesting about your relationship with endurance and then coming back to your life after you accomplish this. Talk to me about that first year.
after you accomplish this and you've said that you felt lost and it was like you lost your purpose.
Katie Spotz (45:40.902)
yeah. like I reached my goal, but I lost, I lost my purpose and people need purpose more than they need goals. So I, I mean, that was what made me jump out of bed in the morning. That was, I mean, to be able to do that journey, it has to be kind of an obsession. Every waking hour. And I mean, you're, you're, you're gambling with your life. And so I did have this very,
you know, zeroed in, focus on this one goal. And so you, after the high, after the rush, after, you know, adjusting to being back on land, it's like, okay, well, what, what, what's the point? Why, what, what's next? What? And so I think it's very common for, I mean, even if you're
you know, if there's like an Olympic athlete and they do the Olympics and afterwards, I think having or going through some kind of depression is kind of normal. I also went from having 12 hours of endorphins and adrenaline endorphins all day. And I mean, there's a runner's high. There's also a high that is associated with all of these types of.
you know, endurance sports. So you go from having 12 hours of endorphins and having adrenaline just pumping through your body for months and then nothing. like there, there definitely was some, you know, soul searching and, and it gave me the opportunity to, well, I spent some time in Kenya and that was where, I was helping build some
water projects and it kind of gave birth to a newer challenge which was so a lot of schools followed the journey and a lot of them would you know ask what they could do how they could help and so I didn't have an answer while I was rowing 12 hours a day but afterwards schools for water was a challenge that was born in that in that space and it was a
Katie Spotz (48:06.954)
a challenge to, tend to encourage and inspire 10 schools in the United States to help 10 schools in Kenya. So when I was in Kenya, helping with, with building some of those projects, I would see that a lot of times kids were not in school and kids, because kids were the ones who were bearing the burden of the clean water crisis. So it was just, you know, there's kids here.
that need water, there's kids at home that want to help with clean water. And so we reached that goal of helping 10 schools in Kenya. And so as a celebration, these 10 schools in the United States, we got together and we broke the world record for the most people carrying jugs of water on their head, similar to what is often done to carry water throughout Africa. So it was a really cool.
opportunity because it let the kids be the stars of the show. They were the world record holders now. They were the ones who were, you know, the heroes in this scenario. And so I really liked that I could focus more on the cause. And then, of course, other challenges came up. so I've been able to do
many other challenges since the row, but I think that it is definitely, you know, now that I know that that's kind of part of it, it's something that I am not thrown off by. I'm like, I know what this is and I know it'll pass and I know this is kind of just part of this very, it's a natural thing to happen.
from a very unnatural thing you're doing to your body and to your mind. So, yeah.
Tim Doyle (50:07.783)
find that really interesting how you talked about the endorphins and adrenaline side of things because it's not just like from the work and activity part of it and like the routine of prepping for this and then going through it but it really is on a physiological level as well that you're like I just don't feel that rush as much
Katie Spotz (50:32.49)
Yeah, I mean, like if I ever see endurance athletes that aren't like happy and they're like miserable the whole time, like, wait, there's there's stuff like I, I think it it should happen to most people. I don't see like it. It's definitely a mask pain. so it it helps you complete these feats. I don't know how you could do it without.
the assistance of endorphins. So, yeah.
Tim Doyle (51:07.357)
Talk to me on the opposite side of things now about how you made the challenge to yourself of taking a step back from endurance actually, and you didn't do any endurance activities for a year and how that completely transformed your life.
Katie Spotz (51:24.81)
Yeah, I can't remember what year I did that, but yeah, I think when you become so attached to like, this is my identity. It's like, okay, maybe I, let's see what happens. I believe that that is what paved the way for me joining the Coast Guard because I was just open.
Right? Like I didn't have this fixated. And I think I just wanted to be open minded about who can you be when you're not attached to just like you can be attached to like, I'm a benchwarmer. you can be attached to, I'm an endurance athlete. So I must always be an endurance athlete. So, I'm pretty sure that that was what opened the door for me to consider joining.
military and so I joined in 2018 and just finished, I was in for about six years. So that was, that was a very rewarding experience. So much of what I've done has been, you know, kind of solo efforts. Obviously there's nothing that I do that doesn't have a team element when there's so many other, you know, sponsors and donors and
people involved with making these things possible. There's no way I could do any of it on my own. But the Coast Guard gave me the opportunity to really feel like I was a part of a team. And I always love the idea of being challenged and it challenged me in ways that I haven't. And so I started in Buffalo and then I
did most of my tour as a logistics officer in Portland, Maine. So yeah, I got to meet a lot of really interesting people, very smart people. got to learn. I mean, was, you can be a sponge in the military and there's always something new to learn and experience. So I feel really lucky that.
Katie Spotz (53:45.802)
I was able to do that and do it for as long as I could.
Tim Doyle (53:49.937)
On a more internal level as well, how did faith start to play a bigger role in your life that year too?
Katie Spotz (53:56.244)
Yeah, so.
If you don't have God in your life, something else becomes it. And I very much felt like endurance was becoming that to me. Like it was the most important thing. And at a certain point, it's like it left me feeling quite empty. And it wasn't until, yeah, around the same time of that year of no endurance that my friend
you know, through deep talks and she explained to me her faith in a way that was never really explained. I have been raised Catholic and so I know the rituals, I know, but I didn't really know relationship. And so it was her explaining to me what it actually looks like to have a relationship with God and answering some of those questions on just really basic things.
it just clicked and hit. And so that definitely has changed the way that endurance has been experienced because...
If, if you're doing something and it's your identity, of course failure is going to feel different, right? Like, because I failed this goal. Like I think failure is one of the hardest things to face when you're attempting to do something you don't know if you could do or not. And, I mean,
Katie Spotz (55:42.732)
God knows what I'm capable and not capable of. there's no, it just, it takes away all that stress and just puts enjoyment in its place that this is really an extension of a joy of celebrating whatever abilities I do or don't have and letting go of, I guess, our or my narrow view of who I think I am and what.
I think I should be capable of. so it, it's really hard to put into words, but I can say that like endurance feels much different where it's coming from a place of joy rather than fear. It's not, there's no fear of my abilities. It's just using whatever abilities I have and celebrating it with gratitude. So,
I may be doing the same things, but it's definitely coming from a different place. And, and, and fear really doesn't have the same hold because of that relationship with God and understanding more about, yeah, just where faith and how faith can change you.
Tim Doyle (57:04.743)
find it really interesting. And I think I had a similar experience in trajectory when it came to physical fitness. It's almost like you needed to, you first needed to find endurance to find yourself. And then you needed to step away from endurance to find yourself again. And I think I had a very similar experience when it came to fitness as well because
I think something that doesn't get talked enough, talked about enough is how
these personal development and these very
just naturally good things when it comes to being physically fit and endurance activities and all these great accomplishments, like, yes, like all great things that can really transfer, transform who you are as a person. But like that development doesn't necessarily mean that like you're taking care of yourself or like, I always say like personal development isn't necessarily personal wellbeing where it's like, we have things like
drinking and drugs and gambling that obviously are like, can become very bad addictions. And like, if you see somebody doing those things in excess, like it's easy to see like on the surface and be like, like that person has a problem when it comes to endurance, you know, running marathons, working out, being very fit, being very motivated, being very disciplined. You're going to praise that person a hundred percent of the time. Like, wow.
Tim Doyle (58:42.247)
look at how much that person's incredibly doing, but like you don't see like potentially underneath the surface. Well, is that person doing it from a vantage point and a head space of almost like an addiction of like they're trying to block themselves off or they're just like going after that, those endorphins and that high. So it's challenging to, for other people to see that. And it can be challenging for
the individual themselves to be transparent with them. So I'm like, I need to step away from this. So I really find that fascinating how you said like my challenge to myself was I'm not going to do endurance where it's like for people who are really fit and stuff, like it's, not hard to do this stuff. Like it's not hard to get up in the morning and do workouts. Like what most people are like, like that's really hard to do. It's like, no, like the hard thing is like, okay, I need to step away from this because that's actually going to help me evolve as a person.
Katie Spotz (59:38.926)
So what, how did your journey evolve with fitness and realizing?
Tim Doyle (59:44.881)
Well, I was different from the perspective of I was unwillingly taken away from it. I had a really bad injury and it was like, okay, like I just can't work out. And so that forced me to evolve and transform in different ways where I think I used fitness a lot of the times when I was younger.
almost like as a coping mechanism. Like, yes, I loved like working out and loved getting fit, but it was almost like, like, I'm not going to deal with that. Like, let me just go get a workout in because it'll make me feel better. And like, it just won't be a problem.
Like that is not healthy. That's where I'm getting from the standpoint of like, yes, like on the search, like, wow, like he works out a ton, but it's like, yeah, but like, maybe it isn't like helping me in all senses because it's like, I'm not sort of dealing with things in my life that, you know, I should be navigating more. I just became so consumed by it that like, yes, it helped me develop, but like it's keeping me down in other ways. So I was not from the standpoint of like, all right, willingly, like I need to take a step back.
It was almost like you don't have a choice. Like you're in this pain, like you can't work out. it's like, so I didn't work out for like seven months. And within that time, obviously a lot of time, energy and head space was shifted away from me working out and being into the gym where I was like, okay, I have all this time on my hand now to evolve and transform and focus on different things in my life. And I would have never done that.
Like I would have absolutely never done that. So that's why I said like getting into the gym really helped me when I was younger. And then in that time where I was getting out of the gym, like helped me even more. So it was like that two pronged approach of like, I needed to get into the gym, get all the benefits when I was younger. And so okay, like I have this now and now I need to step out of that environment while still being able to embody all that, all those things that have helped me.
Tim Doyle (01:01:52.669)
but then taking that into a different app.
Katie Spotz (01:01:57.101)
Interesting.
Where are at now?
Tim Doyle (01:02:03.249)
Back to working out, but like you similar, like just like a higher level of consciousness with it. And just like, it's just coming from a totally different head space of working out. So it's really an evolved approach, which I think is so fascinating for you as well. That like you're doing these endurance activities, not from like when you were originally doing it when you were younger, but it's just a much more.
evolved approach of doing it. And that's what I find is so fascinating is like, you continue to do it. And the next big thing that you're going to do is climbing Mount Kilimanjaro for this next physical feat. mean, when you look all the way back on that preparation process for crossing the Atlantic, how different is that preparation to now preparing for this and how have you evolved?
as a person and then just physically and mentally the differences.
Katie Spotz (01:03:07.598)
so I feel like on face value, like, okay, the row is the most adventurous and nothing else is quite as adventurous. And to me, it's kind of gotten to a place where I almost feel like these adventures are more adventurous than they've ever been before because, they require so little logistics planning.
Logistics and planning are not adventure. That's part of the adventure, but the real adventure is when you, and so for Kilimanjaro, the flights are booked. You do, they do require you to have a guide. So there's, that is booked and that's it. So there's like 5 % logistics and 95 % adventure for the row. It was 95 % logistics and 5 % adventure. So.
I mean, I just, I love that you can never run out of ways to explore, like just our environment, our bodies. so like this past few months, my friends and I did a 70 mile hike in a weekend and it's this nature trail that is super underrated.
the Emerald Necklace here in Cleveland. And it's basically like a continuous 70 mile trail through seven different park systems. So we have that. My friend and I just did a plank mile where on a treadmill we walked a mile planking. the hardest mile, that's another fitness challenge. I just, think, yes.
the adventures might not be on paper as big and exciting, but the fact that you can just dream up some idea and then 10 minutes later go do it, I mean, that's adventure. So I've really been enjoying doing adventure for the sake of it. The hike will also incorporate clean water fundraising. So I'm excited to be able to do that. I do...
Katie Spotz (01:05:30.806)
also speak about previous adventures and that kind of helps with the clean water mission and focusing on that. they're both, you know, adventure and fundraising for clean water are both still part of my life. They just look a little bit different than, than the, the bigger adventures, but, I just, yeah. this year I'm also doing my first Spartan race. So it's a Spartan ultra. so it'll be.
an ultra marathon, 31 miles and then 60 different obstacles. But, um, yeah, I too had an injury, um, rollerblading across the Florida Keys. tore my ACL and it doesn't take, you know, all it takes is one injury for you to be like, okay, just being able to use my body at all is a, a win. And so I think.
I approach adventure and these challenges from a place of being grateful, just being so grateful to be able to do this and, you know, just celebrating it, knowing that it's a gift and, yeah, I guess I have been doing this for 15 years. And so the fact that, you can get stronger, you can.
continue to grow. It's just a really fun process. And right now I am doing a lot with like mobility and flexibility. And so, I don't think there will be huge gains in endurance. So I do like exploring things like strength, flexibility and mobility, because those are areas that I really haven't pursued. And this past year and a half, I've been adding more strength and
It's been nice to incorporate other ways of being fit and really noticing a big difference by just investing a little bit of time just because they're neglected areas. yeah, working on the splits. That's my other mini challenge. Still working on it two years later.
Tim Doyle (01:07:47.419)
Yeah, I mean, it's not necessarily the scope of the adventure that I think makes it so worthwhile because I think that can be a dangerous game to play where you're just getting into this mindset of, okay, if I want to continue to get better, if I want to continue to grow as a person, I need to continue to one up myself with the things that I'm doing. I think a lot of the...
Biggest growths, like you were saying, can come in those like small little moments where it's just like, Hey, this is this thing that I did today rather than like having to do this like massive all out event. And I've talked with people about that. And they said that they've kind of had to unlearn that mindset of, Hey, this is kind of like who I've built myself as a person and whether it's a business and a brand around it as well of like,
I'm this guy who just continues to do these great things and it can be tough to get out of that mindset and way of going about those things. So it's so cool to see that you kind of have gotten out of that mindset as well, or just can appreciate that like, I don't need to do that.
Katie Spotz (01:09:00.648)
I do have to say, just because there's so many, within the last month, I wanted to do free diving. Like, wow, we can hold our breath for a long time. Let's see what that's all about. So I became certified in mermaiding, where you can learn how to do these moves with the monofin. I'm learning unicycling right now. I joined a team. So like, I'm just prioritizing fun.
Um, you know, my friend and I went on a run this week and we were joking around and it was our parkour run. So we were just like running everywhere and having a freestyle run. I think, uh, bringing fun and, and I mean, it's very, if you're doing a Ironman triathlon, that's a very regimented, know, you're working out 20 hours a week. And I think there's, there's seasons and, and, and, you know, for that kind of thing, but.
I like to have as much fun as possible now.
Tim Doyle (01:10:07.453)
Katie, it's great to be able to talk with you today. Really enjoyed the conversation. Where can people go to connect with you, follow your journey with everything?
Katie Spotz (01:10:16.886)
so I am on Instagram, just, at Katie spots and then Facebook, is hello Katie spots. And, if you want to support the cause there's a donate bud button on my website, which is just Katie spots.com.
Tim Doyle (01:10:34.097)
Awesome. Great talking with you. And also just so fascinating getting into the mindset of an endurance athlete like yourself and just like where we find our comfort, where we find our discomfort, found it so fascinating that you said that you were more uncomfortable going on Joe Rogan than being in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. And that just gets further into that mindset of like needing to step back and sort of like the real challenges I need to step back from endurance and sort of like find who I am.
truly as a person. So I that was really cool as well.
Katie Spotz (01:11:05.25)
Thank you so much.
