Outworker
Stories of healing, personal development, and inner work. Founded on the idea that the relationship with self is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect, Outworker shares conversations aimed at helping you develop that relationship.
Outworker
#077 - Ruthie Lindsey - What If You Were Never Broken
Ruthie Lindsey’s story isn’t about overcoming pain. It’s about unlearning the belief that she was broken to begin with. From a wire piercing her brainstem to reimagining her relationship with her body, faith, and identity — Ruthie shares how real healing began only when she let go of the parts of her life that once felt like survival, but were keeping her from truly living. This is a raw look at chronic pain, disassociation, the dark side of storytelling, and the freedom that comes from remembering who you really are.
Timestamps:
00:00 The Art Of Storytelling
04:08 The Deeper Meaning Of Ruthie's Book Title
12:10 Having A Negative Relationship With Your Body
20:06 Returning To Life After A Bad Car Accident
23:17 Having A Wire Piercing Your Brain Stem
29:02 Becoming Dependent On Pain Meds
30:50 Being Failed By Doctors Leading To Self Discovery
39:42 Ruthie's Relationship With Faith
42:18 Expectations For Finding Pain Relief
46:28 What You Don't Hear About Chronic Pain
52:19 Feeling Shame From Your Experiences
1:01:04 The Most Important Component Of Storytelling
1:08:28 Connect With Ruthie Lindsey
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What’s up outworkers. Ruthie Lindsey’s story isn’t about overcoming pain. It’s about unlearning the belief that she was broken to begin with. From a wire piercing her brainstem to reimagining her relationship with her body, faith, and identity — Ruthie shares how real healing began only when she let go of the parts of her life that once felt like survival, but were keeping her from truly living. This is a raw look at chronic pain, disassociation, the dark side of storytelling, and the freedom that comes from remembering who you really are.
Tim
You've talked about how it's important to speak publicly from a place of detachment and reflection rather than on an ongoing and present basis. And I think that's really important when we're talking from the standpoint of storytelling and sharing your story. And I think within today's day and age, the art of storytelling is much more challenging because of
social media and it's just very easy to share on an ongoing and present basis and just piecemeal a story rather than really taking the time to reflect on your own experiences and live your own experiences and meditate on that and then get to a point in your life where, okay, now I'm ready to share this entire story. For you, in building off that,
Ruthie Lindsey (00:37.188)
Mm.
share on an ongoing and pleasant basis and just piecemeal a story rather than really taking the time to reflect on your own experiences and live your own experiences and meditate on that and then get to a point in your life where, okay, now I'm ready to share this entire story. For you, and building off that, once you share that story, then it gets into a conversation.
Tim Doyle (01:04.52)
Once you share that story, then it gets into a conversation of, okay, now I'm sharing this story a lot now and on an ongoing basis. So for you, how do you think the sharing of that story has changed over time?
Ruthie Lindsey (01:09.702)
my gosh. I mean, I think as I continue to change, the story continues to change. you know, I think so often like in terms of at least for writing my book, by the time the book came out, so many things about my life had changed.
that was because of the process of going in and doing that deep inner work that the change came. So that's a part of it. You know, there was a very human part of me. was like, do we just scrap the whole thing? Because I feel very differently about a lot of things now, but that was my truth at that version. And it invited me into an even deeper version. And I think when we pigeonhole ourselves and think, this is who I am. This is what I think, like there's no room for nuance. There's no room for our mind to change.
I want to be an eternal student of Earth school. my mind changes constantly. Like I could not have less in common with seven years ago Ruthie on social media. who? And she's adorable. I love that version of me. She invited me into a truer version of myself, but I like will see old Facebook posts. I'm like, who the hell wrote that? And it, at the time, that was what I thought was my truth. And it was my truth, right? And...
My truth keeps expanding and evolving and my mind changes all the time. And I also want to live in the state of like willing to be wrong. You know, like there's, I just don't think that there's a human part of us that wants certainty. Like, you know, when I was in really deep organized religion, like this is going to keep me safe. I have all the answers. This is what it is. And that does not leave any room for mystery.
for like, like, they're so, I feel like shrug shoulder, hands up, like questioning most things about life. Like, what the hell do I know? You know? And I just, I wanna live in that open-palmed, open-handed state that I'm open to be wrong. My mind can change all the time. There's a nuance in everything. To put life in just little snippets on social media never gets the whole picture. There's...
Ruthie Lindsey (03:33.604)
very little room for nuance and I don't want to live in that black and white mentality. You know, I have it in me. My God, do I have it in me? And that's not how I really want to live my life.
Tim Doyle (03:47.566)
So the title of your book is There I Am, The Journey from Hopelessness to Healing. But the original title for it and how you got your book deal was salvaged, building a beautiful life with broken parts. Why do you think it was so important to make that change?
Ruthie Lindsey (03:52.41)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (04:00.55)
Yes!
I love, no one's ever asked me that. I love that you did your research. You know, because I did a lot of work, going into that book, had an, what we sold to the publisher and I got a great book deal was that version of me at the time. And as I started doing, I mean, it was a pretty painful experience going into these really deep places. It brought on a nervous breakdown. It was, it was pretty traumatic to be honest. And,
And this is not me just like putting a sweet little bandaid on it. It was brutal. And it shed light on a lot of parts of me that I wasn't aware of yet. It sent me on a deeper healing journey. You know, I started doing really intense trauma work. I did three week intensive and I started learning about parts of myself. I also had experienced like plant medicine for the first time.
And I think so much of my indoctrination had been, you I was a part of a church that said I was a broken, depraved wretch. And we sang a lot of hymns about being broken, depraved wretches. And like the theme of the denomination I was a part of is they'd say, you were more broken and depraved than you could ever imagine, but you're more loved and cared for by Jesus than you could ever hope for. And so you need this thing outside of you. Listen, I love Jesus. I love God. I'm obsessed. And that...
Doctrination does not fit for me anymore. I've gotten to unlearn that and peel those layers back. But at the time when I got the book deal, I still believed that I was broken, that my body was broken and hated me. You know, growing up, I already hated my body. I had massive disordered eating. I was taught a lot of really effed up stories about bodies. The only reason bodies were talked about in my home is if they're skinny, pretty, fat or ugly.
Ruthie Lindsey (05:59.782)
That's the only reason a body was spoken of. And so I hated my body. I had learned and inherited a lot of disordered eating. And then as a very young person, I was in this, you know, debilitating car accident where I died and I start living with really intense chronic pain. And then I believe my body hated me. And so I was at this constant war of like, I'm broken, my body's broken, all, you know, everything's broken.
And I need something outside of myself to make me okay, deserving, worthy, lovable. And I just don't believe that anymore. I didn't want, you know, halfway through the book, I was like, that's not true. I'm not broken. And that came through intensive therapy. And I remember going back to my publisher and I'm like, this book is going to be different and the title is going to be different. And if that doesn't work for you, I'm willing to.
return my advance, but I can't in good conscious and in integrity put out a book about calling myself trash and broken. So that was a really interesting thing. And by the end, so many more things had changed, you know, and that's just, that's the beauty of constantly evolving and shifting. And we're meant to, we're meant to.
Tim Doyle (07:20.984)
That's really interesting how the relationship with your body shifted from when you were younger, really young, I hated my body and then going through what you went through and it shifted to, my body hates me. And I want to dive deep into all that, but just sticking with your book for a sec with the title. What I find really interesting is this progression from salvage to
Ruthie Lindsey (07:28.848)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (07:37.318)
Totally.
Ruthie Lindsey (07:50.224)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (07:50.968)
there I am and just really parsing that out and looking at the language.
It's very subtle, but I find it interesting that you say, there I am instead of here I am. And why that sticks out to me is because it's almost like there I am has this connotation of third person detachment. Like you're looking at yourself and here I am is first person. Like I am this person.
Ruthie Lindsey (07:58.931)
that you say they
And why that? Yes. Because don't click there.
Ruthie Lindsey (08:14.308)
Hmm
I am
Tim Doyle (08:21.164)
Had you thought of that distinction before because it seems like the way that you do talk a lot about your story is with that like little bit of detachment and reflection of looking at yourself like a different person.
Ruthie Lindsey (08:27.343)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (08:33.85)
Yeah, I love that question. Well, the reason that first came about is there's a part in the book. I have always loved Justin Timberlake and I was going through my divorce and I had been living in a bed for seven years from really debilitating chronic pain and I was learning how to live again. I just weaned myself off all these drugs. I was newly single for the first time ever and I remember
dancing when Justin Timberlake was on Jimmy Fallon they had a week called Justin Timber Week and his new record was coming out in 2013 and I danced in my living room for the first time since before I had pain and I remember having this moment seeing my reflection of me dancing and just free even though I was still in a lot of pain I was dancing and I remember saying that statement out loud there I am
It's like I had gotten a glimpse of the girl inside, the little girl who was, had a lot more freedom that moved her body and danced freely and acted silly and acted goofy. And you know, it wasn't this deep for me at the moment, but now when I reflect back on that, you know, what I say with my clients all the time, what I teach constantly is the wholeness and healing journey is really an unlearning and a remembering.
It's unlearning so much, like I call it with my clients breaking up with the box of conformity. It's unlearning the person that I was told I needed to be to belong and remembering, there I am. This is who I actually get to be in this life. And the freedom that comes along with that is a deep cellular remembering. And so it's more of that like remembering, there I am. And...
you know, as a student of internal family systems and parts work and shadow work, I believe there's so many parts of us. Like I think who I actually truly am is just essence and love. That's who I am on this planet. And all these other parts are just ways I've learned to be and survive and conditioned to be and you know, personality and epigenetics and culture and where I was raised. These are all just parts, but it's not actually
Ruthie Lindsey (10:52.184)
who I am because who we all are is essence and love that's eternal. And I think we come here with amnesia and we totally forget that and then we get to remember and then we forget again and then we remember. So it's just a constantly coming home. I'm like, that's a truer version of my essence. There I am. when I'm in nature, I remember more of who I am. There I am. When I'm dancing, there I am. When I'm with animals, when I'm with
Tim Doyle (11:07.726)
Hmm.
Ruthie Lindsey (11:21.09)
my people that like, you know, it's not a large massive group of my like inner world. I get to see myself reflected back in them and remember parts of myself that is like actually more of my truer self.
Tim Doyle (11:30.136)
Mm.
Tim Doyle (11:35.734)
Yeah, it shows the fluidity of people. So your relationship with physical pain and your experiences with physical pain really take shape in the public eye when you get into your car accident. But I want to start in the prologue of your life. And it's something that you mentioned earlier with
Ruthie Lindsey (11:38.224)
Yeah, yeah, my gosh.
Ruthie Lindsey (11:58.502)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (12:03.736)
growing up and your relationship with your body. Talk to me about that entire experience and your relationship with your body then.
Ruthie Lindsey (12:06.48)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (12:12.376)
Yeah, thank you for that question. You know, it's so funny, until writing my book, I would have told you all pain moved into my life when that car accident happened, which is so cute and so innocent. So, you know, it was a protective mechanism that I learned. And, you know, I had two really loving parents doing the best they could and had not done much of their own inner work and
you know, we know epigenetics are real and they're passing on their own stuff to you. And there was not very much attachment or attunement in my house. You know, my earliest memory is watching TV and eating junk food. And that's my mom's earliest memory too. Like she did the same thing that she was taught. Like, no, I'm not making anyone bad or wrong here. Everyone was doing the best they could. And, you know,
My mom was really struggling while she was pregnant with me, really, really struggling after, did not have a lot of help. My dad didn't do babies. We had very, very, very little money, so she couldn't afford a helper. And she had two other boys that she was like trying to do on her own and take care of. And it was just a really stressful environment. having children brought up a lot of her own trauma, like her childhood was very, very, very, very traumatic. And so,
when they weren't met with attachment and attunement, they don't know how to offer that to a child, you know? And as a highly sensitive, highly porous little girl, you know, I learned to shut down so many parts of myself. And my dad, you know, God bless him, like he's passed. And for a long time, I didn't feel like it was okay to talk about anything that was painful with him. Cause he also loved the shit out of me. Like no one's eyes lit up more when I walked in a room than my dad.
and he came from this old patriarchal view, you know, we got whipped like you say, yes, sir. You say, yes, ma'am. are respect. Respect was the most important thing at the cost of any feelings or emotions you had. You said, yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. And if you didn't, you paid the price. And so I had the fear of God and my dad. I did not want to get in trouble. I learned to fold myself into the sweetest little good girl that smiled all the time and was
Ruthie Lindsey (14:33.026)
very polite and very docile and very, you know, pleasant and, and I learned how to like shut off parts of myself. Like I wasn't allowed to be angry. wasn't allowed to throw a fit. If I threw a tantrum, I would get the shit beat out of me. Like literally, literally. And I thought that was normal. You know, I really thought that was normal. A lot of emotions that the world might consider quote unquote
bad emotions, which I do not adhere to that anymore. They're just emotions, but those weren't allowed at all. And so of course we know now they don't go away just because we're not allowed to feel them or show them or express them. We swallow them. They turn inside out of our bodies, you know, and they're going to come out sideways. For me, that became a lot of control, which came through disordered eating. If I stay a certain size, if I control what I eat, I can at least
control something in my life, you know, and also through a lot of numbing. Television was my big way to avoid not being here and just to check out from life. And so, you know, I have so much empathy and compassion for my parents and for the version of myself that was a really terrified and really scared little girl who did not know how to regulate because I wasn't co-regulating with anyone. My brother,
was really my caretaker. Like he was the one that I was closest to. He's the only one I ever remember missing and he was only six and a half years older than me. Right. And so I still like, I was exposed to really terrifying movies. I, I saw really inappropriate things at a very, very, very young age, that scared the shit out of me. And I had no space to process a lot of there was like, you know, it's a,
strong word, but there was some neglect there. Like there was a lot of exposure and it was terrifying to my little girl self. And I would say terror has been a companion for me and so much of my life. It has sat right here beside me and scared the shit out of me. And I've been afraid of so much. And as an adult learning to actually feel it and not just think about it and express it and
Ruthie Lindsey (16:56.172)
what does it feel like in my body and not make it bad or wrong, but actually to like be with it has been, I mean, I literally just got off a call with a client right before you and I only share the things that I need desperately for myself and have needed. And we did a whole thing around fear and embracing fear and communicating with it. And, it's so kind and it's so loving. And it also makes sense to me now. we haven't really gotten into this yet, but like,
When I had this like horrific event happen through this car accident and have this major medical experience of a wire piercing my brainstem as a complication from my car accident, I moved straight into a freeze state. Like I used to say, I lived in a bed for seven years just because I was in such debilitating pain, which
I was, there was a massive physiological things. There was a wire piercing my brain stone and I'm the only human in the world that has had that. And now doing the amount of work that I've done and inner reflection, I also know all of a sudden I was completely frozen. I didn't have to show up to a life that I didn't want to be in. I didn't have to show up to a brand new marriage that was not fulfilling me that we felt guilty for having sex and got married.
didn't have to show up to a job working at a church where I felt so disconnected. I felt no connection to God. I felt like a total fraud. And I got to lay in bed and take narcotics and eat my feelings and watch TV, which was my way to survive when I was a little girl. And as miserable as I was, there was a part of me unconsciously that had needs met, because I got to not be here anymore. And I was in this massive nervous system freeze state.
because life had felt so terrifying to me and I had never done any work around all the trauma I experienced or this car accident. And my body just froze and checked out. And I also got care, you know, in a way that maybe I wasn't able to get as a child. And again, all of this was so unconscious and it makes a lot of sense to me now.
Tim Doyle (19:06.114)
a lot to unpack there. And we're gonna get into all that. I want to start back at the beginning though. So you didn't have much pain after that bad car accident that you had. And to a degree, you kind of just went back to your normal life.
Ruthie Lindsey (19:07.268)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (19:21.253)
Right.
Ruthie Lindsey (19:28.262)
Totally, totally. I'd get sore if I danced too much or a little achy, but I was also very disassociated.
Tim Doyle (19:35.104)
Yeah, like how is that possible that you feel like you were able to just physically, mentally, emotionally just, all right, on with the show basically.
Ruthie Lindsey (19:44.262)
I would not say that I physically and emotionally and spiritually went back to life. I would say that I moved into a, I was already a pretty disassociated kid, but after that wreck, I moved into even a deeper level of disassociation. I, you know, it's interesting. You said earlier, third person, I would talk about the wreck in third person, like it had happened to someone else. could not.
Tim Doyle (20:07.502)
Hmm, interesting.
Ruthie Lindsey (20:08.536)
enter into that at that time. I would always say it was so much harder on my family and friends than me because I was on life support. Like I don't remember much of it, which of course my body remembered all of it. But the way that I handled it, because it's all I knew, I didn't do therapy after, we just didn't really talk about it. You just kind of go back to life as normal. And I want, I mean, I was 17 years old. I wanted to be a senior in high school. I wanted to live.
like I had, so I just tried to numb it. And that's when disorder eating like really, really ramped up because that was my way to like, feel a sense of control. I would go from starving myself to binging till I made myself sick because that was like the only thing that I could kind of control in my life when everything else felt really out of control. But what was ironic is on the outside looking in that condition little girl.
who needed to look a certain way and be happy. And I was asked every day coming home from school, what did they say about you today? Did they say how pretty you were? What they say about your outfit? Like, you know, I knew how to show up in college and have a big pomegranate on my face. And I was not okay, but I didn't even know that I was completely disassociated, just numbing my way through life. And then I'd go back home and eat until I was
literally ill and obsessed over my body and obsessed over food and really disconnected. No one really knew that I was suffering inside. I don't know that I consciously knew that I was suffering inside. I was completely disassociated, you know, and so when within a few years when that wire pierced my brain is when everything came to a halt and I had this kind of physical, you know,
I did not believe for one second that it had anything other to do than the physiological experience. So I, in my head, I had the excuse, well, I'm in pain. I can't show up to this life. Not knowing that there was massive mental, emotional, spiritual trauma happening at the same time.
Tim Doyle (22:20.952)
So with that brain stem with the wire piercing it, you basically get told and you said it previously, only person in the world to have it, pierce your brain stem like this shouldn't be alive, shouldn't be able to walk. should be brain dead. Obviously in the moment you're like, okay, something's physio physiologically wrong. You've as you've matured and as your journey is unfolded.
Ruthie Lindsey (22:23.206)
with the wire piercing.
Ruthie Lindsey (22:34.712)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (22:45.894)
Holy.
Tim Doyle (22:51.19)
you as you've talked about, you start learning more about the mental and emotional side of things, especially the mind body connection. The mind body connection when it comes to physical pain and chronic pain has played a massive role within my life. The first question that I had when I heard you say that, and obviously I don't know, this is just coming from a place of curiosity. Is there any part of you that feels like, especially with the doctor saying like,
Ruthie Lindsey (22:55.206)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (23:04.74)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (23:13.412)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (23:20.878)
hey, we don't even know how this is a possible that you're live. Is there any part of you that thinks that that was never the issue in the first place?
Ruthie Lindsey (23:31.122)
no, I think it's a both and. I think it's a 100 because there was a massive physiological thing going on 100%. But for the longest time, that's all I could see. And when I had my first nervous breakdown, I just only believed it was because I'm in so much pain and I can't handle it. There was nothing in me that believed that.
Tim Doyle (23:32.974)
Okay. Okay.
Ruthie Lindsey (23:54.734)
I didn't know what preverbal trauma was. I did not know about the mind body connection. I didn't know that I learned to stuff my feelings with food and television literally as early as I was able to sit up. You know, like I had no comprehension of that and nothing in me would ever tell someone that's dealing with chronic symptoms that it's only in their head because they do manifest physiologically. Like it is real and
it's always also connected to the mind body connection. So I think there's both sides of the coin were very much alive. I just didn't know and didn't have the knowledge yet as a very innocent, naive. was so innocent, right? And I hadn't been taught that yet. And so I had no, you know, what's interesting to him. I remember having people very vaguely cause there weren't many, but like,
kind of mention that maybe there's more going on, maybe there's emotional pain here. And I would get so offended. I would want to punt them to the fricking moon because I'd be like, bitch, you die in a car accident and then have a wire pierce your brainstem and tell me that that's not what's happening in your life, you know? And of course, that's all, you only know what you know. And
I was not raised in a home because they had not been taught these things where emotions were a thing that you were allowed to experience unless they were sweet, kind, pretty, and then in the church, fruits of the spirit, you know? And so I think it's a very, very innocent and a very natural thing. And especially in our Westernized culture where pain is just medicalized and we're just given a lot of drugs.
You know, I never had a doctor. went to doctors. I have spent more money in this life on this sweet little body. You can't even imagine and more doctors and more visits and more blah, blah, blah. And not once in those seven years that a doctor recommend me going to therapy or that there could be more going on. They just kept giving me more drugs. And you know, by the end I was on the highest level of fentanyl and morphine and hydrocodone and Ambien.
Ruthie Lindsey (26:15.174)
and Lunesta and Cymbalta and Trazodone. mean like a baggie of drugs that I was taking every, the fact that I'm alive because of that, to mention the car accident or the wire in my brain stone. Like how my liver handled that, you know? But if someone, no one in the medical field at that time was saying maybe there's emotional trauma involved in this.
They just kept giving me more drugs. And I think that's one of the massive, I mean, there's so many, so many things wrong with our medical system, but in Western culture, you know, like it's just medicalizing the symptoms instead of getting to root causes. And it's such a disservice to our bodies. It's such a disservice to our mental health. It's such a disservice to our wellbeing, you know, and
in the Western medical system, like root causes is not taught in medical school. They are taught how to treat symptoms and then those symptoms need medication and that, know, and I'm not trying to like, you know.
Tim Doyle (27:23.052)
You're not, you're speaking to the right person about this because I have deep personal experiences within this space.
Ruthie Lindsey (27:26.522)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And there's a place for it, like for acute injury. my god, there is a place for Western medicine. I'm not trying to demonize it, but there's such a lack. There's so much missing.
Tim Doyle (27:46.156)
Yeah, when you just look at things in isolation, just at specific body parts rather than the whole person and you continue to stay in pain.
Ruthie Lindsey (27:50.478)
Yeah. Yeah. Trauma. I know. And then you more drugs and more drugs. I mean, it's really, it's a heartbreaking, it's a heartbreaking situation.
Tim Doyle (28:05.304)
Did you develop a dependency on the drugs? To what you said to the point of? Did you develop an addiction at all or it never got that?
Ruthie Lindsey (28:07.998)
yeah, 100%.
Ruthie Lindsey (28:14.406)
I mean, my body was addicted, you know, I would, back then I wouldn't have told you I had an addictive personality. And now I'm like, hello, this phone. Hello, screens. Hello, sugar. You know, like what a cute idea that I those parts 100%. And I loved not having to be here. Like all of a sudden when I was on those narcotics, I mean, of course I needed more and more.
Tim Doyle (28:23.79)
Ha ha ha.
Ruthie Lindsey (28:42.438)
to be able to have the experience, then you're just maintaining. But especially at the beginning, you know, I had never drank. I was like the goodest good girl that ever good girl'd, you know, I had never had sex. I never done a drug. I had never smoked. I'd never done anything. And all of a sudden, but life had already thrown some big shit my way. And all of a sudden I remember that first hydrocodone and I could float away and not feel all the emotional pain.
all the physical pain and I loved it. Of course, right? Like, I don't know, that just actually made me feel a little teary. Like, of course I loved not having to be here because it was so painful being in this body emotionally, physically and spiritually. And it felt like the biggest respite all of a sudden. I was just like, oh, you know, like it was, it, of course.
Of course it was so innocent and you need more and more and more to be able to touch the level of pain because it also took them five years to realize there was a wire in my brain still while I was in the bed. So.
Tim Doyle (29:53.144)
That's also what I'm really interested about. So a doctor finally says to you that can't tell you exactly what's going on until sees what's going on underneath the spot. And an x-ray shows that the wire is piercing your brainstem. Is there any reasoning or any ideas that you have for why past doctors, especially for five years, hadn't had that thought?
Ruthie Lindsey (29:55.224)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (30:01.509)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (30:15.162)
Yeah.
you know, I've gotten to do, I've gotten to let myself feel really angry and do forgiveness work around that because it was neglect for sure. it was incompetence and it was neglect. And also people are fallible and people make mistakes and people are in doctors are human. you know, I'm also, they're not used because I'm the only one in the world, I guess.
It's not like a normal thing to leave and look for, you know? And so I wanna have tenderness, grace and compassion while also like I've let myself feel the anger of the neglect that happened there. yeah, you know, two things get to be true. The human part of me, like how fucked up? That is really fucked up. And...
the higher version, the truer version of myself is like, I think this is part of my earth school curriculum because it happened. And it sent me on the deepest inner journey that you can imagine. And I couldn't be the woman sitting across from you today. I could not have had the two clients I met with the two hours before I met with you today and be able to mirror their wholeness to them and mirror their goodness and worthiness and help them feel
their own emotions and do this work if I had not needed it for myself. And again, I do not adhere to the toxic positivity bullshit. Like anger has been here. Rage has been here. All of it belongs and I have felt it and it still comes in waves and it's what happened. So, you know, it's a part of my journey. It's been a part of my awakening. It's been a part of my
Ruthie Lindsey (32:09.314)
invitation to come back home to myself. It has been the deepest portal of my life. This physical, emotional, spiritual pain. And if it hadn't happened to him, I would probably still be the sweetest little basic bitch you've ever had in your entire life. Just being the sweetest little good girl who I adore. And my God, like she was so asleep, so unconscious, so in that little tiny box of conformity of wanting to be so good.
pleasing people, appeasing anyone, just saying yes when I meant no. Like I, I don't know that I would have ever broken out of that if all the things hadn't happened. Do I wish it on myself? Do I wish it on anyone? No, it's so brutal. And what it's invited me into is a truer version of myself and the woman that gets to do this work in the world. And you know, wow.
What a privilege that I get to do this.
Tim Doyle (33:09.58)
It's like you needed that second breaking because that first breaking from the car accident just allowed you to recover and return to who you were to an extent. And this is how I understand the difference between recovery versus healing. recovery is, like I said, a return to who you were. Like, yeah, that was tough, but I'm able to get back. Healing, I think, is just
Ruthie Lindsey (33:28.229)
Hmm.
Ruthie Lindsey (33:33.658)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (33:40.69)
such a breaking that it's impossible to recover and get back to that previous version of yourself. Like for you, it was an introduction to who you were truly supposed to be.
Ruthie Lindsey (33:41.796)
Yeah. That is impossible. You can't go back.
Ruthie Lindsey (33:48.006)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (33:52.349)
Yeah. Yeah, because I love that. I've never heard that broken down that way because I wouldn't even call myself recovered, but I on the outside looked as though I was. was back to being the conformed, you know, sweet little good girl, go to church every day, you know, whatever I needed to do to like feel safe in the world and to get belonging, which we're hardwired for. And I got a lot of praise for it. A lot of praise for it. You know, I was like,
the homecoming queen and the captain of the cheerleading squad and voted most popular. Like I got a lot of outside value and worth by being that little girl in that tiny little box. Parents loved me. Teachers loved me. I had the biggest smile on my face and I was very unwell inside. So I went back to more of that, but even more disassociated.
And yeah, I love that distinction you made because that was not a healed version of myself. That was still the little girl with a million masks wearing those to belong and the massive breakdowns, the, know, which there've been more than one, all of them have become these like as cheesy as it sounds, like everyone's heard the term like breakdowns are an opportunity for breakthrough. Like I believe that it
invited me into became the deepest portal, the deepest crack for me to continue to become a truer and truer and truer and more authentic and more free and more expansive version of myself. And if I had not had all those breakdowns, I don't think it would have happened. That's usually how our school curriculum works. Now we can talk to God when we go back. I don't know why this is how it goes because holy shit, it's no joke. But like, I can't go back in the box.
I cannot do it and it's you know, it would be a lot It would please a lot more people if I did You know because you're gonna disappoint people when you become a freer more authentic version of yourself Like there's family members that don't like when I talk about the things that happen in my childhood It's not popular. My town doesn't like when I talk about some of the fucked up things that happen there It's not popular and I'm not as popular as I was then
Ruthie Lindsey (36:13.572)
And that's okay. That's okay because we're all just projections. Like I'm projecting on people, parts of myself that have not been loved and cared for, you know, and we're all mirrors to each other. And if I was making everyone comfortable and happy, then I wouldn't be living as my true authentic self.
Tim Doyle (36:33.984)
And you most likely wouldn't have been willingly or consciously able to take yourself out of that box. So it was like, all right, we just need to break that box. And that box doesn't exist anymore. I want to dive deeper back into the medical side of things. So when you find out that this wire is piercing your brainstem, because it's such a unique
Ruthie Lindsey (36:43.588)
Yeah. Totally.
Ruthie Lindsey (36:50.501)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (37:02.644)
medical problem that you're dealing with. lot of different doctors have a lot of different scenarios for the best plan of action to take. How did you come to a decision of what needed to be done?
Ruthie Lindsey (37:04.538)
Uh-huh.
Ruthie Lindsey (37:10.8)
Yeah. Yes.
Ruthie Lindsey (37:18.246)
Oh God, it was such a terrifying time. It was so, and I was so unwell. I'd been in my bed for almost five years. My dad had just freakishly died. I did not want to be alive. And you know, we find out about this wire and all of a sudden I'm kind of being pursued by doctors because they also kind of get off on being the first one to do something, you know? And it was so confusing, like you said, like I had some doctors say that I had to have
all of this fused together where like I would never be able to turn my neck for the rest of my life. And if I didn't, then the chance of paralysis was even higher. I had some say to do that, you know, and ultimately because I didn't really know and I wasn't connected to myself or my internal knowing. And maybe this is just something bigger than me, which I do definitely believe in. I just went with
who was known as one of the top orthopedic surgeons and one of the top neurologists in the country. And, you know, it wasn't like this intuitive hit. It was just like, okay, they've had the best results. The Mayo Clinic is supposed to be one of the best and they want to do this surgery together, these two top doctors. And I kind of went off that more than anything else because I didn't know what to do. And I was freaking terrified. And, but I just,
I just kind of went off of who was the most well known, you know.
Tim Doyle (38:50.932)
And you've talked about it a little when it's getting into the faith component. And I'm really interesting. The path that that journey has taken, how you grew up in a very religious environment.
Ruthie Lindsey (38:55.707)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (39:01.295)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (39:06.05)
No, actually I didn't. So we, it was a very moral environment. Like you needed to be a good girl or, my dad was a principal and a superintendent of schools. And so we got in way more trouble than other kids if we got in trouble. So it was more of a fear of God and my dad, like even though my parents were really wild, like really wild, but like if we drank or if we got in trouble, it was, it felt like the end of the world. And so,
But we still went to church. It was more about just being a good person. It wasn't like Jesus and all these other things. But then after my wreck, which is very human, I got really entrenched in religion because it brought me a sense of safety. They have all the answers. This is how you have eternal life in heaven. This is going to make you good. This is going to make you holy.
I already believed I was a piece of shit. You know, it's not like that was not new news to me. And then to hear somebody say you're a broken, depraved wretch, you're right. But something outside of you is going to save you. And then you're going to feel so loved and feel so good and you know, be so of service and we are the chosen ones. Like they also believed in predestination. So like it was already chosen before I came here that I am one of those people I get to go to heaven. I'm one of the good ones, which I just, I mean.
Don't even get me started on that whole conversation. I'm like, holy shit, wow. But there was an answer to everything. There was just, you know, this particular denomination is all run by old white men and they had a philosophical answer to every single question. There was no mystery. There was no, like the body was completely, this is all head, you know, in this denomination in particular, we made fun of any of the like woo woo.
you know, mystical or tongues or spiritual or whatever. Like you couldn't hear from God unless you were reading from the Bible. But it was so black and white. It was so black and white that in some part of me felt safety there. Like this makes me good. And at least I know that I have answers and I'm going to go to heaven. So I got really entrenched in that when I was a teenager and through college. And that's what brought me to Nashville was working for one of those churches.
Tim Doyle (41:30.712)
and then tying things back into post-surgery.
Ruthie Lindsey (41:35.376)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (41:37.24)
Was the expectation for you of like, this, surgery is going to take my pain away or what was your, with the brain stuff.
Ruthie Lindsey (41:44.12)
Which surgery?
Oh yeah, so I was talking about this recently with someone and this is so again, you know, like I try to have so much compassion for myself because how human and how innocent, but I think we put so much faith in other things outside of us to quote unquote, fix us just like I was taught, like Jesus is going to fix me, you know, and I put all my eggs in a basket. Like, okay, we find out about this wire.
this surgery is going to be the thing that saves me that takes the pain away. And if it doesn't, then I'm just screwed. And so I put more hope in that even than like living because they didn't know what would happen when they did the surgery. But I just was like, this is my one chance to get out of pain. And so ironically, when I got out of that hop, that experience at the hospital, I have another big neck bracelet and they bring me home with even more narcotics and
I got so much more depressed after that because the shooting pain from the wire going up my brain went away. But then I still had all this other pain, like nerve damage and hip pain and back pain and you know, and I felt the level of hopelessness that I felt after that because I did, this was my one chance, my one hope. It didn't quote unquote, fix me. I'm still in debilitating pain.
Now this is my fucking life and I just have to live inside of this body that hates me inside of these four walls for the rest of my life. And the level of depression that came on after that was so debilitating. So heartbreaking. I just thought that was going to be the rest of my life in those walls, in that bed, miserable, trapped in a body that hated me. That was my story that I made up at the time. And you know,
Ruthie Lindsey (43:41.968)
There's still grace in this and this sounds crazy. I so hope it doesn't come across as a band-aid because it took a long time to get here. But my ex-husband leaving me was one of the best things that happened. And my partner and I pray for him every night at dinner and thank God for him now. Because if he had not done that brave thing, his soul, I think it was all a part of this curriculum, you know, again.
I've grieved, felt so angry. I felt all the abandonment wounds, all of that. This is also 12 years later. And if he had not left me, like the agency that it took for me to get out of that bed, to wean myself off of those drugs, to learn to live again, to begin the process of doing this inner wholeness work and remembering work, it was a massive instigator. I believe his soul was a part of my awakening.
I don't know that it was conscious. It was really painful. And he ended up with one of my closest friends, like, holy shit, the human part of me. Like that was so debilitating. And thank you God for that man, for leaving me. I thanked him in person. And I was like, I wouldn't brave enough to do it. I wouldn't well enough to do it because it was, we weren't okay. And I, you know, I wouldn't be able to be in the relationship that I'm in now with my fiance. I wouldn't.
be doing the work that I'm doing if I'd never gotten out of that bed and gotten off those drugs. yeah, it was deeply painful and it initiated an awakening. And I can only say thank you for that.
Tim Doyle (45:23.522)
And I think that goes deeper into that relationship between recovery and healing where you weren't returning to that past life with your ex-husband, but it was, that was a crucial part of your healing where that was it. That was an introduction to your new life and who you were supposed to be. Something that I also want to talk about, and I've heard you've talked about it in the past as I know how debilitating pain can be.
Ruthie Lindsey (45:42.086)
That's right.
Ruthie Lindsey (45:52.07)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (45:53.518)
But you've also shared how your pain to an extent could be a crutch at times for detaching from life and, you know, binge eating and just staying in bed and watching TV. Talk to me more about that, because I do think that's one of the one dangers of chronic pain where, like I've said, I know it's a 24 7 job when you're dealing with it.
Ruthie Lindsey (45:58.636)
Mm-hmm. yeah. Yes!
Yeah. Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (46:14.092)
Yeah.
Yeah... Yeah...
Tim Doyle (46:24.034)
But then seeing that underlying component of it being a crutch and being able to, in a weird way, like it because you're like, this can keep me in a state where I can make excuses or not have as good of a life that I potentially.
Ruthie Lindsey (46:26.79)
seeing that.
being a crutch and being able to in a weird way like it because you're like this can keep me in a state where I can make excuses during
Yeah, you have really done your research. I love that you asked that question. You know, even the word crutch can sound really negative and I want to bring so much self-compassion to myself or anyone listening to this that lives with pain because it's so innocent and it's so human to not want to feel this way and to want care and to want to check out from it and to want to numb from it.
You know, I have so much compassion for that girl and her bed that like was miserable living with so much pain, but also fucking loved not being here and not having to show up to this life and not having to show up to this marriage and not having to show up to this job and no one asking anything of me, no one asking anything of me. I was only taken care of and for the little girl in me, I longed for that. I deeply, deeply desired.
to be cared for in that way. And so, you know, we get to have a lot, a lot, a lot of compassion for those parts of us. Like, Tim, I've been able to get out of anything I wanna get out of for 25 years. Anything, no one questions me when I'm like, I'm hurting too bad. No one questions me at all. And there's a part of me that loves that.
Ruthie Lindsey (48:06.66)
because the introverted part of me that does not want to be in a large crowd of people and is exhausted and you know, loves that I have that excuse. And again, most of this, and that's why I love shadow work so much. It's unconscious. I don't think this is people trying to be manipulative. It's not people trying to use other people. It's not people, it's just, it's innocent and it's unconscious and we are getting needs met.
unconsciously, usually from childhood, right? And you know, I can really learn because it's an ongoing thing. I have beat the shit out of myself in this life and shame the shit out of myself in this life. But learning to like actually love that part of me and meet that part of me and like have compassion. It's also taught me like the more I'm learning to have agency to say no, my body doesn't have to get so much louder.
to keep me from doing the thing I don't wanna do. Like what if I just said no instead of my body's hurting too bad and I'll do it, I still use that as an excuse sometimes. Yeah and is it still ever present? Like if I use my body as an excuse I would do nothing because my body has lived with a large amount of pain for a really long time. So it's like quote unquote legitimate and.
sometimes it's an excuse to get out of the thing I don't want to do. And I think the more we learn how to meet that part of us with compassion and kindness and understanding and innocence, the less we need to do it. If that makes sense. It's like what we judge, we're stuck with. If I hate that part of myself, I'm stuck with it.
You know, if I criticize myself every time I feel overwhelmed and want to get in a bed and eat junk food and watch TV, I'm stuck with it. I want to do it more because it feels so shitty to feel so shitty about myself. And how many times have I done that in this life? Like, my God, that is in me. I came home from a really hard doctor's appointment the other day and I literally got in the bed for two hours and slept so hard. And that day I'm like, all I want is a donut.
Ruthie Lindsey (50:28.422)
and then watch probably a Real Housewife or something. there's a part of me that wants to be like, there you go again, just numbing out, just avoiding, just disassociating. Like what kind of bullshit, like you know better, you know this doesn't help you. That's in me, right? Does that heal any part of that little girl that learned to do that, to survive? No, she just feels more shame and wants to do it more.
So what if I like actually let myself have that experience and not shame myself for it? What a novel idea, right?
Tim Doyle (51:07.8)
Yeah, just bring bringing compassion to it and not. I think it goes towards. Not being reactionary and widening the gap between that event and the stimulus that you put onto that event because that's not. Unnecessarily. Good or bad thing. That just happened and then you're putting that perception of it on it. I want to.
Ruthie Lindsey (51:10.533)
Yes!
Ruthie Lindsey (51:14.832)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (51:23.661)
Yeah!
Ruthie Lindsey (51:30.034)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (51:35.142)
That's right.
Tim Doyle (51:37.858)
dig a little deeper into the shame component and tying things back into your book and writing your book. You would think that that could be a very reflective, cathartic process and almost like, wow, look at all this pain that I've went through. And now I've gotten to this point where I can alchemize it into something so beautiful and share my story. But you say that was a very shameful process for you.
Ruthie Lindsey (51:39.856)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (51:59.408)
beautiful.
I say that was a very shameful process for you. Especially from the standpoint of like, who am I to like this?
Tim Doyle (52:07.968)
especially from the standpoint of like, who am I to write this book? Who am I to try to help other people? Can you talk more about that?
Ruthie Lindsey (52:16.55)
Yeah, you know I had a breakdown finishing up that book for a lot of reasons which we could do a whole other podcast on that and you know it brought up so many layers of shame that had been in me which also I think it's not all mine you know if you knew my mom's story if you knew her mom's story it would make a lot of sense.
and now I understand it a lot more. But there was this deep perfectionistic part of me that's like, I need to have it together to be able to share, you know, like I'm such a fraud because I don't have all my shit together and I'm still really struggling. And that was also an important part of my journey because what I love about the work I get to do today, even though it's not centered on me, I share myself.
I share my struggles, I share my patterns, I share my failures, I share woundings because it allows us all to just be more human. Like I have yet to meet a fully awakened person in this life. Maybe they exist, I have not met them and I've been doing this work for long time. And as bright as your light is, is as big as your shadow is gonna be. And the only teachers that I choose now to sit under,
are ones that own their shadow, that do not seem as though they have it all together or that they're perfect or that they've arrived. I will arrive somewhere when I take my last breath. Until then, I am in the fucking messy middle and I'm always unlearning and I'm always remembering and I'm always making mistakes that I get to bring compassion to to learn from. Like that is the human experience. Like that is part of this earth school curriculum is to come here.
to make mistakes, to learn from them, to grow from them, to use them to be of service to other people so they feel less alone in their stuff. And if anything, I think that whole experience of writing that book, having a breakdown, feeling so much shame, feeling like such a fraud, it sent me on a journey of self-compassion that I have not learned yet. And now that is the crutch, that is the baseline of the work that I do because it has been.
Ruthie Lindsey (54:38.646)
everything that I've needed. It has been the thing that has moved the needle the most for me is learning to meet myself with care and compassion and to mirror that to my clients, to mirror that to my friends, to mirror that to anyone listening. Like we think that self-compassion is a passive, like, you know, whatever thing it is actually one of the most powerful. There are so many studies that show that it like moves the needle.
more than anything else, when we can meet the things that we have considered, you know, broken or fuck ups or failures or whatever with a tenderness and compassion that we are so deserving of, we're actually able to move into more aligned action. And it's not passive at all. It's actually like the most loving action that you can offer yourself, which is of service to the world.
Tim Doyle (55:34.466)
was really curious to ask about the shame component because just in real time for me these past few weeks and it's passed, but I feel like I had been feeling a ton of shame when it came to my experiences with chronic pain because I feel like to a degree, you know, I'm proud to say that, and I don't think you're ever, you know, fully healed, whether it's, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally, whatever.
Ruthie Lindsey (55:39.398)
Yeah. Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (55:51.62)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (56:01.796)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (56:03.65)
But like in terms of just like physical pain and sensations, like that's a thing of the past for me, but I still do a lot of work around that. I created my own podcast series sharing that entire story and it's helped a lot of people, but like talking about it in real time. These past few weeks just brought like a lot of shame onto me. And I think it was also with like talking with other people who are like currently right in the depths of it.
Ruthie Lindsey (56:04.902)
like physical pain and sensation.
Bye, still.
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (56:19.268)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (56:25.658)
I it was also with like...
Ruthie Lindsey (56:32.026)
What's the story you're making up there?
Tim Doyle (56:33.696)
especially like talking about the pain because I was like, man, like I'm starting to forget what that feeling is like, like the literal feeling and sensation of how bad it was. And that like brought shame onto me. And I mean,
What's the story I'm making up?
Ruthie Lindsey (56:52.632)
Yeah, like I like to say that like the story I'm making up right now because it doesn't mean it's true but like what's the story? Yeah, is it that I can't relate now or what's the story there?
Tim Doyle (56:57.93)
No, it's my perception of looking at things.
Tim Doyle (57:03.798)
I think it's kind of...
Like it feels like I'm an outsider looking in on the space rather than like being in the mud, so to speak, with them. And something really interesting happened though, because...
Ruthie Lindsey (57:07.686)
feels like I'm an outsider looking for something okay.
with them and something really...
Tim Doyle (57:23.19)
My journey with chronic pain, similar to yours, has been a very spiritual journey with a lot of divine moments. And I was in church a couple of weeks back and I was like, I need some type of sign here. And for the first time,
Ruthie Lindsey (57:28.57)
Yeah. Yes.
Ruthie Lindsey (57:37.198)
Hmm.
Tim Doyle (57:43.478)
in a long time, I felt probably the most pain that I had felt this past week. And I wouldn't even necessarily call it pain or wouldn't necessarily call it discomfort. But I just like I was I started feeling my body again and it allowed me to. Appreciate like, hey, like this is your life, you're like you're still like right in the middle of this. And I took it as the biggest sign of like.
Ruthie Lindsey (57:47.096)
Interesting. Yeah.
Tim Doyle (58:11.818)
he feels shame. Like, let's alchemize that into pain for him. And then that pain quickly got out alchemized into gratitude.
Ruthie Lindsey (58:19.596)
Wow, how beautiful, how beautiful. That's so amazing. And may I speak to that part of you, like the shame part? know, shame is usually our own like second wound. Like we have an experience and then we shame ourselves for having the experience. Like you feel better and then you're shaming yourself because like, but now I don't know how to relate on this level, which it's so innocent, right? And when we can meet these parts with like
Tim Doyle (58:29.528)
Of course,
Tim Doyle (58:38.827)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (58:43.726)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (58:49.038)
What if, if we reframe it, like, wow, you get to be such, you understand what someone's going through, but you also get to be such a guide, which is so huge. Like, you know.
For someone that's having a nervous breakdown, I'm not in that state right now, but I get to meet them where they are because I know what it is to be there and the trauma and the pain and the isolation and the loneliness and thinking you'll never get out of it. That actually gives me more ability to meet them. If I was in the middle of my nervous breakdown, I wouldn't be able to meet them there and be able to mirror to them their wholeness and their goodness and their worthiness.
And so I think you are exactly right on time. You are the perfect person to share these things, you know, and yeah, how beautiful to have the memory, but like, it doesn't mean that you don't have pain emotionally, that you don't still have the human experiences. Like that's just the human experience. And if anything, I just feel so much gratitude that that's not your daily experience physically anymore, you know, and
That's a huge, amazing blessing and it allows you to have more capacity to do more of this work.
Tim Doyle (01:00:08.896)
I appreciate you saying that and that's a very, that reflection really resonates and that's something that I meditated on this past week. The last part of your story that you say is the most important is basically forget my name, forget everything that I've told you, forget my story as a whole and the story is really a flashlight.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:00:17.296)
Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
Tim Doyle (01:00:37.72)
for the other person to build out their own story and move forward. How do you think that can be beneficial advice for you as well though?
Ruthie Lindsey (01:00:49.89)
Yeah, you know, again, that version of me that even wrote that like some of it doesn't fit anymore. And what I do at a core level believe is that we're all mirrors to each other. So if someone reading my story, like the amount of times I'm not being sarcastic here, the amount of times that I get messages or people being like, I could not relate more to your story and you know,
And in my head, I'm going, wow, like I'm the only human in the world that's had a wire in their brain. And, but what a universal experience. Cause everyone knows pain on some level. I am not unique in this. Maybe mine's an extreme version of what someone else is experiencing, but every human, if they are alive and have consciousness are going to experience some level of emotional, physical, spiritual pain if they exist. Like that is just the human experience. And
if we can mirror to each other, like right now, you're mirroring parts of yourself to me and I can see parts of myself in your story. And we're all just mirrors and projections. That's all it is. like, we're all.
Tim Doyle (01:01:59.532)
And it goes to that, it goes to that, there I am.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:02:02.572)
Exactly, we get to see parts of ourselves and you know if we do the unconscious work like the things that I can't stand in someone else guess what part of me has been denying that part in me or else I wouldn't be judging the shit of it out of it in someone else like we're all projections and mirrors and so it's always an invitation to come back to yourself like when I you know I might think of it in a different way now because I have different language and I've done
maybe a little bit more work, but you know, let anything I say just don't take my word for it. Let you yourself just like come back in what lands for you. What activated you? Huh? Like what if that's really kind? You know, like I, I really practice and have my clients like we don't say triggered. We say activated because triggering is so disempowering. That's saying you did something to me and I have no control over it.
where if you say I'm activated by what happened with someone else, it's a wound that's already within me and it's activating this old wound. It's scratched a scab off a wound that's already there and it's this invitation to go back in, because I have no control over how someone else acts or, and we all know this, but putting it into practice is a very different thing. And I'm preaching to myself here, you know? But like it's...
Tim Doyle (01:03:21.325)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:03:25.37)
always an invitation to come back inside and to meet those wounded parts within me and to be with the parts within me that felt jealous, felt insecure, you know, all the things because people are projections when I'm jealous of someone, maybe it's something that's inside of me that wants to be awakened that I have not felt brave yet enough to put out in the world. Or when I am judging the shit and being critical of someone, maybe
maybe I really believe it's a part inside of me that I am judging and being critical of. So it's always an invitation like forget the other person this is honestly about you.
Tim Doyle (01:04:03.0)
Yeah. And I think it's important to know that it's an equation. Like people have told me and I've experienced as well, you people have said, you you sharing your story has changed, you know, changed my life or it's had such a profound impact on me. And what I and I had this experience as well when I was reading books about the mind body connection, I was like, that book changed my life. And I was like, well, it's not
Ruthie Lindsey (01:04:18.512)
Yeah.
Tim Doyle (01:04:32.747)
that one thing in isolation that created the change, it's like it's that thing plus you, the person that created the spark. And it's really you who is that first variable. And then you brought an external thing into the equation.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:04:49.638)
Yeah. And you had to be open to receiving that. I mean, it's 100 and there's a million little, like you said, micro things that prepared you to be able to hear it. Cause again, when I lived in my bed, when someone talked about the mind body connection, I wanted to pun them to the fucking moon. You know, I wasn't ready for it yet. And now this version of me, I'm like, that's all I believe. Like of course that it just, it makes total sense to me, you know? And it's like, there was not one thing that got me.
Tim Doyle (01:05:06.125)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:05:19.44)
to this place. And listen, if we did this interview five years from now, I would probably have different stories about so many freaking things. But one of the things I say a lot, and I really try to adhere to this, I'm like, I am so down to be wrong about pretty much anything. But if it helps me love myself and others more, I don't care. I don't care. I don't care if I'm wrong that like,
my ex husband and I had a soul contract where we would help bring each other through so much pain that ultimately would awaken us and it was ultimately loving. Who cares if that's not true? What if none of that's real? It helped me love myself and have so much more compassion for that experience. I don't care. I don't care if I'm wrong.
Tim Doyle (01:06:08.59)
That's the storytelling component. Things happen, there are plot points, and then it's up to us to create the narrative and the story that works for us in our best favor.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:06:17.454)
Yeah, yes. What helps you feel more loving towards yourself and others? And so many of our stories cause us more suffering, right? And that's why I even said earlier, like, what's the story you're making up? What's the story I'm making up? Because that leaves so much spaciousness to say, it doesn't mean that this is true, especially when it's a limiting story. Like I write in my journal.
It doesn't mean that this is true, but the story I'm making up is blah, blah, blah. I was doing it this morning because I was super frustrated about some medical experiences that I had. And there's a lot of that feels like very, it's filled with a lot of grace and a lot of compassion for ourselves and for other people and their stories. Because as we all know, like there's an Anayas and Niem quote, he says, no one sees the world as it is. We see it as we are. Like, I mean, me and Jed, one of my best friends could go to the same party.
Tim Doyle (01:06:49.326)
Hmm.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:07:11.514)
And I swear to you, he will give a completely different version of what happened at that party than I will as an introvert that's very sensitive and very, and that's probably a big codependent part, but very aware of people's emotions and things. Like we will tell a very different story of the exact same thing because we're all seeing it through our own lens, our own trauma, our own healing, our own awakening, our own epigenetics, our own culture.
Tim Doyle (01:07:31.064)
Yeah.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:07:39.414)
No one seeing the world as it truly is, we're seeing it as we are. Period.
Tim Doyle (01:07:46.05)
Ruthie, it's been great talking with you today. Where can people go to connect with you and see more of your work?
Ruthie Lindsey (01:07:46.886)
You too.
Yeah, well first off, thank you. You've done such amazing research. I really appreciate your questions and how much time and intention you put into it. So I really appreciate this conversation so much. So my favorite way to communicate with people is through my sub stack, which is, my name is Ruthie Lindsey, L-I-N-D-S-E-Y, and it's called Love's Invitation. And then I also have a website, which is RuthieLindsey.com.
and an Instagram which is also at Ruthie Lindsey and through I really communicate the most through Substack but that's where you can learn about working with me one-on-one which is one of my favorite things to do it's like one of my favorites on planet earth and usually I do a six month container with folks I lead a lot of retreats a lot of workshops I also do online offerings and you can learn all about that
through there and I also love speaking. So speaking is one of my favorite, favorite, favorite things to do. And so when people are looking for a speaker that, you know, helps people alchemize their pain, that is one of my favorite topics to talk about. Yeah. Thank you.
Tim Doyle (01:09:03.18)
Awesome. A lot of great stuff that you're doing and a lot of different places where people can go to find out more. It's been awesome talking with you today.
Ruthie Lindsey (01:09:11.608)
You too. Thank you so much for the work you're doing.
