Outworker
Stories of healing, personal development, and inner work. Founded on the idea that the relationship with self is the most important to develop, but the easiest to neglect, Outworker shares conversations aimed at helping you develop that relationship.
Outworker
#082 - Gina Bontempo - The Lie Behind Body Positivity & How Big Food Keeps You Sick
Gina Bontempo breaks down how body positivity became a movement rooted in deception—and why its evolution into fat acceptance is more harmful than empowering. She exposes the addictive tactics of Big Food, the manipulation of language in media, and why eating more than ever is leaving people emptier than ever. From spiritual discipline to personal accountability, this conversation is a raw, unfiltered challenge to the narratives keeping people sick, stuck, and sedated.
Timestamps:
00:00 How Gina Got Exposed To Body Positivity
04:48 Origin Of Body Positivity
09:05 The Shift In Acceptable Language
12:11 Food As An Addiction
22:40 Correlations Between The Food & Tobacco Industries
26:32 Body Positivity As A Variable Term
35:15 Social Media Influencer Impact
42:15 Obesity & Malnourishment
44:58 Fixing A Bad Relationship With Food
49:30 Junk Food Withdrawal
54:45 Spirituality & Food
1:01:26 The Fear Factor
1:04:26 Benefits Of Shame
1:06:29 Connect With Gina Bontempo
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Gina Bontempo breaks down how body positivity became a movement rooted in deception—and why its evolution into fat acceptance is more harmful than empowering. She exposes the addictive tactics of Big Food, the manipulation of language in media, and why eating more than ever is leaving people emptier than ever. From spiritual discipline to personal accountability, this conversation is a raw, unfiltered challenge to the narratives keeping people sick, stuck, and sedated.
Tim Doyle (00:07.448)
Body positivity feels like it's become its own sub-industry within health and wellness. So obviously a lot of people have been getting involved within this space. For you, why did it feel like you had the push to also get within this space, especially with writing a book that kind of goes against the mainstream narrative of what we're supposed to understand about body positivity and what we're told about it.
Gina (00:36.033)
Well, I fell for the body positivity lie at one point in my life. And it was by far the most miserable time in my life. And a little bit after I eventually had lost the weight that I had gained, at one point I gained about 40 to 50 pounds, which is a lot on my small frame. And I kept being told by the internet that I was perfect just the way that I was and I was beautiful. And it was...
society's beauty standards that needed to change, not anything that I was doing with my health or my lifestyle. And then shortly after I lost a lot of that weight, I started working for an online women's publication that was a pretty big one, raking in millions and millions of views a month. And I was their fitness editor. And we were constantly pushed to make a lot of body positivity content, which
kind of didn't make much sense to me because as an editor, I was always looking at the analytics of which articles performed the best, which social media posts were shared the most, which articles our readers and our audience were most interested in. And by far without fail month over month, the content that people were most interested in was weight loss content, before and after photos and stories, a lot of inspiring stories of women who maybe lost a hundred pounds.
And these were the types of articles that were viewed and shared the most. But at the same time, we were pushed by executives and by our directors, editorial directors to constantly produce this body positive fat acceptance content. And it just didn't make much sense to me. I'm thinking myself, why do you keep telling us to publish this content that people are not overwhelmingly interested in? So it opened up a lot of
exploration for me to dig deeper into why people are buying into this type of content and also specifically why body positivity is only sold to women. You never see men being sold this concept that obesity is not only beautiful, but it's healthy. For example, you'll never see a morbidly obese model on the cover of GQ or Men's Health, but you'll see it a lot in women's magazines. that
Gina (02:51.765)
got me really interested in trying to figure out what is really going on here in this space.
Tim Doyle (02:57.422)
So when you started writing for that magazine, was that post you losing the weight or was it like an ongoing process where you were writing and were still overweight or what was the breakdown there?
Gina (03:11.095)
It was kind of an ongoing process. mean, it was probably about 2015, 2016. There were a series of events in my life that were extremely stressful. you know, like a lot of people who are struggling with their weight, was a lot of mental health issues. I ended up losing probably like 30 pounds and then kind of started getting back into the swing of things. I've always been very athletic. I've always been...
very much into working out regularly, whether it was, you know, I had my CrossFit years, I had my yoga teaching years and did just classic strength and conditioning coaching. So as I started writing for these publications, I had still, it was an ongoing process, I still had some of the weight to lose, but I was feeling better and better every single day. There was just nothing, there was never a week during that process where I didn't feel better because I was eating better, I was treating my body right.
So it was definitely a process that made me realize we're being lied to. Just objectively, you are happier when you're healthier. And also objectively, you're going to be happier and healthier when you are at your desirable weight versus when you're 50 pounds overweight.
Tim Doyle (04:25.806)
Can body positivity, like does it have an origin story? Can it be traced back? Like was there a particular organization or outfit that really created body positivity?
Gina (04:41.495)
That's a good question. I think there's a lot of disagreement about where it started. I think largely it started becoming more mainstream in response to the 90s, early 2000s, heroin chic trend, where you have all of these rail thin models that are like size double zero and they're starving themselves and only eating an apple a day and just chain smoking and maybe having a glass of wine at night.
sort of Kate Moss look. And I think that the mainstream body positivity movement that sort of emerged, would say like maybe late 2000s, like 2008 2010, something like that. I think that was largely in response to this heroin chic trend. Now in terms of who exactly started body positivity, I think those details are quite not agreed upon. mean, there is a section of the internet that claims it's
know, women of color, it's from black women, they were fighting against this white supremacy, white supremacist society that was claiming that white bodies were the only beautiful ones. But I don't even think it was that I think it was much more like women who were a size six or eight, wanted to be more accepted, or maybe a woman who had like a C section scar would want to be more accepted than
just because they weren't a size zero, they didn't want that to be a deterrent for women to feel confident in their bodies. So it's hard to say exactly where it came from, but it is kind of easy to see what it was originally in response to. And I will say this, who has seen a lot of how the body positivity movement has transformed over the years, and it has changed a lot in its early days, I can completely understand why it started because
For me, for example, from a personal perspective, I have never been skinny, skinny. Half of my family, a lot of my family does struggle with being overweight. Other half of my family is just kind of genetically small. I'm half Korean, half Italian, and you can probably guess which side of my family does not struggle with weight issues. I've never, not that I've ever been fat a lot as a child or as a teenager.
Gina (06:55.415)
but I was never skinny, skinny. was always like athletic. You I was always a little bit more built and even growing up myself, I remember thinking it's kind of nice to see some other types of bodies represented. It is kind of nice for girls to maybe see a woman who's not a size zero, but maybe a size four or a size six because that can absolutely still be a healthy body. And I totally understand how the body positivity movement originally wanted to celebrate women who
maybe had multiple kids and wouldn't necessarily have the exact same body as they did in high school, but they can still appreciate the body they have now because it is still healthy, even if it's not as skinny as it was before. So I can kind of understand how it started and what it originally wanted to give to women. There's this book, I think she originally published it maybe in the 90s.
Dr. Naomi Wolf, I mean, she has become viral over the last several years for speaking out against a lot of the COVID vaccine mandates and things like that. But one of her first most popular books was called The Beauty Myth. And she wrote a lot about how it's the society's beauty standards that are really putting too much pressure on women. And while I don't agree with all of that, some of her book actually made a lot of sense for back then.
It's just the problem is body positivity has morphed into something that is completely unhealthy and also completely not rooted in reality. It moved into something more like fat acceptance and then it also moved into the health at any size movement, which is particularly dangerous, especially when you see the rates of obesity in America today.
Tim Doyle (08:42.966)
Yeah. And that's something I want to dive into a little deeper here because I think the language that we use is really on one end powerful, but also very dangerous because obviously with body positivity, the surface of it is obviously the body image and you know, magazine covers, but I feel like the real psychological
shift or operation is when we're using certain language or we're just talking in a certain way that is either allowed or not allowed within your experience and your research. especially being a writer for a woman's magazine, what were like the big shifts you think there were just like with the language that is seen as allowed for like what you were saying where
It's not just body positivity, but it's really gone to an extreme.
Gina (09:40.569)
I mean, one little example is I remember when I was writing for this online magazine, it was probably 2017, 2018. They had this meeting with the health and fitness vertical of the editorial team and they said, we're not going to use the word curvy anymore because it's offensive. So, okay, so we're not using the word curvy. We're also definitely not allowed to say fat. And so they changed the term from curvy models to curve models.
which makes absolutely no sense, but it's little things like this. And then I also remember hearing first really hearing the term fat acceptance. And I also started seeing this is when things got totally crazy. People started to censor the word obesity. So they would write obesity like O-B asterisk S-I-T-Y, or they would write obese as O-B asterisk S-E.
So they didn't even, it was almost like the word obese was a dirty word and they didn't want to use the term obesity. I saw this happening with a lot of influencers. So I remember distinctly, I think it was probably 2017, there was this influencer who was selling a lot of fitness programs and I think she was even doing online workouts for people and she would write extensively about obesity on her stories and she would always censor out the word as if that was supposed to like make overweight people feel better.
because I obese is now this dirty word and she didn't want it to be something that was considered offensive, things like that. And that's when I was like, okay, this is getting really, really out of hand. And then the famous Cosmopolitan magazine cover of morbidly obese women and the title was this is healthy with an exclamation point. And that's what I'm thinking myself, okay, language doesn't mean anything anymore.
You know, these words mean totally different things now. We're rewriting the dictionary. We're rewriting what these things are used to signal and it's become extremely unhealthy.
Tim Doyle (11:50.67)
When understanding the transparency behind body positivity, you can't do that with also looking at the food industry and big food. And I had Dr. Anna Lemke on my show a little while back. She's the author of Dopamine Nation. She's the head of Stanford University's Addiction Medicine Clinic. And one of the big things that we've talked about was
how our society and culture has just become so drugified past just what we understand as drugs, whether it's technology, social media, or one of those being food. And I wasn't aware of this until I dove deeper into your book about how food addiction technically isn't recognized as an actual addiction. Why is that so important to see? Because food definitely is an addiction.
Gina (12:47.768)
Yeah, it's such an important thing to talk about because food is specifically an addiction in the United States of America. And it's a unique addiction here, specifically because the big food is allowed to use a lot of these extremely addicting chemicals in their foods that countries in Europe, for example, are not at all allowed to use even down to things like food dyes, which have
an incredible impact on children and their behavioral issues, their attention span, their cognitive function. And these are the types of foods that are quite literally designed to make you addicted to them. If you look at a bag of Doritos here in the United States, the ingredients are gonna look very different from a bag of Doritos that you might get in London. Same thing for something like Heinz ketchup. The ketchup that you get here,
is going to be different than the ketchup that you get in Ireland. just checked in with one of my clients and she went to Ireland for two weeks with her family and she says, my husband and I looked at the Heinz ketchup there and it looked very, very different than the type of ketchup we get in America. And so these little things, it may not seem like a big deal, but it is a really big deal here because we have so many people who are addicted to ultra processed foods, whether it's snuck into their
their condiments or whether it's because these are the types of things that parents are packing for kids at school. Even down to fast food, you know, if you look at the ingredients in like an Arby's sandwich or something in McDonald's, those ingredients are also gonna look very different than the type of fast food that you see overseas. And this is a scary thing because you think that you're just living life normally and you're consuming real food.
but at every turn you're eating some kind of chemical, some kind of preservative, some kind of endocrine disruptor that is modifying the way that you respond to food, that's modifying the types of food that you crave. And of course it's affecting your metabolic function. It's affecting the way that your brain functions. And this is having such huge ripple effects on everything in society. And I mean, you know, put on my tinfoil hat, but I think it's by design.
Gina (15:04.483)
This is exactly how they want us. They want us to be docile. They want us to be controllable. They want us to be not functioning in our optimal state because it makes it much easier for us to be comatose. And when you're comatose, you're much more easier to control.
Tim Doyle (15:22.99)
So how are individuals supposed to navigate their way out of that? And I'm talking specifically, like if we're talking in terms of like, hey, this is like an actual addiction, not just like somebody who is, you know, eating unhealthy. These are my bad habits. Like, let me just clean some stuff up. But if we are looking at this from the vantage point of, hey, this is a true addiction to the point of we're getting into the neurological here and my dopamine receptors are
craving this and I have a true addiction, how are people like, can people do that on their own? Do you think or like, does it get to the point where like you truly do need professional care?
Gina (16:05.899)
I think it depends. I think there are a lot of people who can do it on their own, but there are also a lot of people who need the support and there's nothing wrong with either way. There's something wrong with getting the support, working with, whether it's a medical provider or working with a coach who has a lot of experience training people. Because one of the first things, for example, that I do with my clients, so I work primarily with women, a lot of them are moms, and I would say a little more than half of them are already
women that eat fairly healthy, but maybe like 40 % of women who signed up to work with me are truly addicted to ultra processed foods. One of the first things that I work on with them is eating the type of high protein whole foods that are going to make you feel satiated. You have to make your body feel full because one of the things about eating chips upon chips and then cookies and cookies and all these snacks is that you're never actually full because it's these highly processed carbohydrates that are not
making you feel satiated. we start every single morning, and this is like across the board, I don't think there's anybody that I don't do this with on my client list. We start every single morning with a high protein breakfast, at least 30 to 40 grams of protein with breakfast, which is actually very rare for people to do when they first start working with me. And I think most Americans, you think about the average American who's just consuming a lot of the stuff, what are they eating for breakfast? They might have a little bowl of cereal.
They might have a piece of toast, they might grab a donut and a coffee with pumps of sugar and syrup in it. They're really not eating anything first thing in the morning that helps them feel satiated. And that affects you negatively in so many ways, but primarily you're gonna feel hungry by the time 11 o'clock rolls around and you're gonna reach for the nearest thing, which is probably something sugary as well. So that's the first thing that I normally work on is creating a sort of meal plan.
that allows these women to eat actually more food, like a higher volume of food than they may be used to, but this food is much more satiating. So by the time they get to dinner, they might actually feel too full. They're like, I don't actually really want those cookies or the chips in the pantry because I've eaten a lot of food today. I've eaten like 1900 calories of food today. So it kind of depends. Some people are definitely more than able to just kind of make that happen for themselves, but others,
Gina (18:31.022)
they really appreciate that type of coaching and the support because a lot of people sometimes don't even know where to start in the kitchen. So it helps to just have some recipes or some meal ideas to just help them get that extra protein during the day.
Tim Doyle (18:47.288)
Do think on the flip side of that, it's become common knowledge within US culture that the US food industry is just not set up the way it should be and then using that as a scapegoat or an excuse for like, hey, the US food industry is terrible. Like I, but it's like, no, you still have autonomy. And I think that can also play into the whole body positivity movement. are your thoughts there?
Gina (19:17.538)
Yeah, I've heard this a lot. I heard the same argument for people who are born into low income communities. They say things like, well, we just don't have access to that kind of stuff. But unfortunately, when you look at some of the research where these types of communities, they claim that the issue is access or they claim that the issue is these food companies that are giving them food that is unhealthy.
There has been some research and I forgot the name of the study, but Harvard definitely conducted the study where they have gone into these communities and provided healthy food and they've just basically given it to them. But these individuals still, still end up choosing the ultra processed stuff. They still choose the pre-packaged foods. They still choose the snacks and the stuff that's not gonna make them feel full.
and the type of food that is basically nutritionless. So it is, I don't wanna say it's mutually exclusive, but I think a lot of times people don't like to admit that they really wanna make a change. I think that a lot of people really struggle with finding that autonomy and finding their why, finding the reason why they wanna actually make changes in their life, because it's easy to sit back and blame the world for all of your problems.
can apply to just about anything. You know, I think we live in a society now where people are encouraged to blame the world for their problems. And so I think it is easy for people to sit back and say, well, look at all the stuff that RFK Jr. is pointing out. Like, we're just up against it. Like, why even try? We're never going to be able to find foods that are healthy for our kids. I think first and foremost, we have to start with a personal responsibility and really ask ourselves, like, what can I change? And I think people would be surprised at how much
They can change with just themselves before they start to complain and lament about what Big Food is doing to them.
Tim Doyle (21:19.394)
And it goes back to those addictive tendencies where it's not just about bad habits. Like if you're in the mindset of, I could stop if I want to, and then you can't, it's like, okay, well then you're showing addictive tendencies here. I find it really interesting in your book as well, how you draw the correlations between big food and the tobacco industry. Can you talk more about that?
Gina (21:33.018)
Mm.
Gina (21:44.239)
Yeah, mean, until quite recently in human history, doctors were recommending types of tobacco. You know, we have had a lot of medical providers over the years who have been paid off to say that certain cigarettes are healthy. I forgot which brand it is, but anyone can look this up. They had an ad saying that their cigarettes were the best for pregnant women. And this is something that was approved. And there was like doctors that signed off for it.
And so unfortunately, one of the scariest things about our healthcare system, big pharma and big food is that they're all kind of in bed with each other. And so we see a lot of medical providers that are signing off on things that are totally not at all healthy for us. And
That was the case for big tobacco for a really long time. And unfortunately, that's the case for a lot of things in the pharmaceutical industry and the case for a lot of what's happening in big food. I mean, one small recent example is a lot of registered dietitians who are trained and they get their education from the conventional medical system. A lot of these registered dietitians were paid off by these big food soda companies to say that aspartame is
totally fine. There's nothing unhealthy about it. Now, this is not to say that if you drink one diet coke, you're going to die. know, everything in a little bit of healthy moderation. But what these RDs were saying online is that a lot of the research showing that high levels of aspartame is really not good for your gut, especially. They're saying that all of this is bogus and it's been debunked.
and there's nothing wrong at all with drinking all of the diet soda that you want in the world. And besides, it's also zero calories. And then you also had some registered dietitians that were paid off by big food companies to promote ice cream and say that there's absolutely nothing wrong with eating ice cream every single night if you want. Again, there's nothing wrong with enjoying ice cream. We're not trying to promote a completely
Gina (23:57.238)
unhealthy approach to food, especially if you look at a lot of countries like the blue zones and a lot of European countries where people are healthier, much lower rates of chronic disease and obesity. Like they enjoy full fat foods, they enjoy some sugar, but they enjoy it in such moderation and they eat a much healthier diet day to day that they don't see the same types of health problems as we do. So we're not saying that you should never eat ice cream, but the problem is that a lot of these registered dietitians are paid off by big food.
to tell little lies about the types of junk food or prepackaged or ultra processed foods that people are literally addicted to now. And it's just a lot of similarities. Doctors were paid off. They were paid a handsome sum to recommend cigarettes to pregnant women and say that these are the best cigarettes for you and your baby. And we're unfortunately still seeing a lot of that today. And it's something that needs to be called out and it's something that people need to be aware of because
Unfortunately, we have a sort of God complex when it comes to people with a certain medical degree, especially MDs. I we saw that a lot during COVID a few years ago. Doctors and even nurses and people who have been educated by the conventional medical system, they've been given this God complex. But unfortunately, I mean, they're human just like the rest of us, so they can be paid off to say certain things. And so we're still seeing that happen today.
Tim Doyle (25:24.92)
There's certainly a lot of coercion and I think one of the tying it back into potty body positivity. Now, I think one of the main concerns with that is there's a lot of variability in the understanding and that can be really dangerous when there's not a consensus on one this, what this actually means and everyone can just kind of mold it to mean their own thing. And I think for those who
really take it to an extreme, it can be especially dangerous. I mean, what is the basic understanding of what, you know, body positivity activists would say, but then what's the actual reality of
Gina (26:15.365)
of what do you mean, the reality of what they would say about what, just obesity in general?
Tim Doyle (26:19.518)
No, I'm saying like, what is the like, what would the strongest body positivity activists say is like the definition of it, but then, like scrapping that away, like, what is the actual reality definition?
Gina (26:34.564)
of obesity.
Tim Doyle (26:36.598)
or of body positivity.
Gina (26:37.819)
body positivity is what you're saying. Yeah, so I would say the most propped up body positive activists will say that all body positivity means is that you love the body that you're in today. That's what they would say. They would say, all we wanna do is empower women to feel confident in their skin. And it's nothing more. There's nothing more about it. Okay, well, if that's the case, then why do celebrities like Adele
and Rebel Wilson. there was another one recently. Lizzo is a great example. Why are these women bombarded by body positive activists and they're belittled by body positive activists when they lose a lot of their excess weight? Lizzo is the most recent example. She's been on a weight loss journey for quite some time now, I think probably even more than a year now. And I think Lizzo looks great.
you know, and she's still working on it. She's still got more to go. But I think it's incredible that she was recently featured in a magazine to talk about the fact that she doesn't eat sugary breakfast anymore. The fact that she eats more protein in the morning, she's no longer a vegetarian, she's eating more fish. She's eating more poultry and meat to help her get those protein levels every day. But she was just berated and just torn down by a lot of the body positivity activists because it's really not
about a woman feeling confident and empowered in her body. It's not, even though they say it is, because if it actually were about women feeling confident and about women feeling empowered, confidence and empowerment is inseparable from being healthy. And we cannot lie to women and tell them that you're perfect and you don't need to change a thing if they have a metabolic disorder and chronic disease is very likely in their future.
In fact, I find that to be an incredibly mean spirited thing to do, to encourage somebody down a road that is very unhealthy for them. And you'll hear the response, a lot of people say, well, I'm 30 pounds overweight and my blood work is pristine. I've got great blood work. My doctor says I'm healthy. Okay, you may be healthy today, but you're 30 years old. What do you think it's gonna be like when you're 40 and you're still 60 pounds overweight? What do you think it's gonna be like when you're 50?
Gina (29:02.169)
because true health is not only about the way that we look and feel today, true health is creating a future for ourselves where we're thinking about longevity, we're thinking about the long game. And so that's why I always say body positivity wraps their message in a fake bow of compassion and this sort of faux love and empathy. But at the end of the day, it's just this toxic message that stops women from
from reaching their full potential and being as healthy as they can.
Tim Doyle (29:33.698)
Yeah. And going back to what you said earlier, it's a real shame because body positivity at its core could be a very beneficial thing for people where we're not just focused on the superficial and the vein, but I find it really, really interesting because on the opposite end of the spectrum, you know, you have body dysmorphia. And from my perspective, it seems like
body positivity activists would be, you know, obviously they're going to say that they're against that, you know, having that perfect type of body, that superficial vein outlook on how you're trying to look like that's terrible. But in a paradoxical way, it also seems like they like it and they need it because it's the fuel for the body positivity activists. And obviously like it's on one end, it's not healthy to be, you know, extremely low.
body fat year round and you're only taking photos of yourself with good lighting and you're posting on social media. Like, no, that isn't healthy at all, but it's like, okay, let's take that unhealthy thing and I'm going to raise you another one just on the other end of the spectrum. And it's like, it feels like
Gina (30:36.22)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Doyle (30:50.498)
body positivity activists, what it should be is, okay, we're just trying to remove the overall emphasis on focus of just talking about the body in general. But in a paradoxical way, it's like deepened the focus on the body. What are your thoughts on that?
Gina (31:10.48)
Yeah, think that's very profound. I think it hits the nail on the head in a lot of ways because at the end of the day, body positivity simply exacerbates the obsession with outward appearance. And that's why I do say that in the early days of body positivity, I could get behind a lot of that because in the 90s, early 2000s, these models were starving themselves.
or essentially anorexic or bulimic. And these of course are incredibly unhealthy lifestyles. But instead of being obsessed with the way that we looked, I felt like the early body positive years were about embracing natural, healthy bodies. And that's why I think it's so much more important, I work with a lot of moms, it's so much more important to think about why, why do you want to lose weight?
every single woman I work with, the answer first is always for my family. Like I want to play with my kids without getting tired. I want to show my kids good examples. And that's why you have to focus on things that are almost bigger than yourself when it comes to health, when it comes to longevity, because I think body positivity just makes women even more hyper selfish in a way, right? Kind of the same way that this
super skinny, heroin chic, trended, like you're starving yourself so that you can look a certain way. So I don't know, you feed your own ego. And the same thing with this body positive fat acceptance. It's just me, me, me all the time. Well, why is it that we want to be healthy? Is it really about us at the end of the day? I don't think it is. I think it's about giving to our family, giving to our communities, creating a better world for the next generation. And that's why it's so important to talk about health in a nuanced
holistic way because we're not talking about just dropping dress sizes or else everyone will be on a Zempik, right? Because if it's just about the way that you look, we can inject ourselves with some of glutide all day long. But I think you're right. It's, and it is important to see it's important for young women, especially to understand that body positivity kind of just deepens this obsession with the way that we look on the outside. You know, I'm fat and I'm proud and it's
Gina (33:34.588)
It's got nothing to do with how I feel and the way that I'm taking care of my body. It's like the other side of the same coin. I'm a size zero and I'm a supermodel and I don't care about how I feel, what my future looks like. That's why at the end of the day, both are really unhealthy because they're deeply, deeply selfish.
Tim Doyle (33:53.036)
Yeah, you still continue to reduce yourself just to your body, but it's like, no, I'm an I'm a full person. Like I have thoughts, I have skills, I have experiences, but it's still just having that pride on the other side of things for your body. And something that you touched a little bit on earlier, but would love to talk more about it is the role of social media influencers, because obviously this phrase body positivity in the entire
Gina (33:59.422)
Mm.
Tim Doyle (34:22.754)
you know, the whole model people obviously have gotten behind, but I feel like where it really sinks in for people and where people really get impacted by it is when you have some type of micro connection to that. And I think that's where social media influencers come in, where you feel like you are connected to these digital personas. And you're like, you have that,
Either that motivation or that sense of like, okay, I can, you know, do this or like this is okay. What have you seen within the social media space either like not giving like specific people, but just like the types of influencers and the messages that are being sent out? because what I've seen, I mean,
Gina (35:11.421)
Mm.
Tim Doyle (35:15.262)
Not specifically within body positivity, but I think one of the most disgusting things that social media has turned into is the role of like these people just gorging themselves with these food mukbangs and being able to get tons of engagement and which can turn into money and brand deals further goes into this whole body positivity thing where, it's okay to a degree, especially when you're like,
Gina (35:27.462)
Yes.
Tim Doyle (35:45.272)
Well, now I'm financially benefiting from this.
Gina (35:50.236)
It's funny you mentioned mukbang because sometimes I love to hate watch mukbangs because I'm horrified. It's like a car crash I can't look away from. Sometimes I will, I'll admit. It's honestly, it's like a car crash you can't look away from. Sometimes if it's a late, late night and I'm trying to get my son to sleep, I'll just, I'm scrolling and it comes up and I'm like,
Tim Doyle (36:04.686)
Yeah, I'm not gonna lie, I've watched them before as well.
Gina (36:18.683)
What is this? And when I finally get him down, show my husband, I'm like, look at this, this is gross. He's like, why are you looking at it? He's like, swipe away. But the thing about mukbang is this. So mukbang originates in South Korea. And originally mukbang was just somebody who was eating dinner alone and they wanted to like eat dinner with other people, so to speak. So they would just turn on a camera and they would eat a normal meal in silence and they would eat everything and the people would watch and that was the end of it. And then somehow,
we Americanized mukbang to be this disgusting over the top thing where I mean, you may, I'm not going to name who it is, but you've probably seen this guy. eats like six different slices of cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory or he eats like the entire box of crumble cookies or he'll eat like 12 donuts in one sitting. And then sometimes, you know, a lot of these mukbangers do this, they'll try to run it off and they'll like show on the treadmill how they like run off the calories.
We've Americanized mukbang to be this thing of let's eat as much junk food as humanly possible in one sitting. And it is the most American thing that lives on TikTok and YouTube and Insta. And it's disgusting, especially because when you think about like the originally, that's not what mukbang was ever supposed to be like. But yeah, know, back to your question, I do think that there's so much influence, of course, from social media influencers.
on how we approach food and how we think about our bodies. And we're now in the age of authenticity online, right? I think a lot of influencers and people who are building their personal brand, they want everything to be authentic and honest. But I think what that has kind of turned into is people only being authentic and honest about the not so good things in their lives.
So they'll talk a lot about how, well, know, my kids went to bed on Friday and I just ate an entire tub of ice cream. I just want to be honest and authentic with you guys. Like, this is like, this is just what I do. And they just talk about all the negative things that are authentic and honest. And in a way, they're just trying to create this sort of like human connection with the flawed humanity in all of us. And a lot of viewers will buy into that and they like it, but there's never any...
Gina (38:42.492)
like healthy balance. So what has happened now in social media is that it's two extremes. One extreme is these, you know, gross mukbangs. And then these people only talking about the terrible food that they eat, like goblin mode. I think the term goblin mode was like the Webster dictionary word of the year in 2023 or something like that. And goblin mode is when you just sit in your bed and you eat everything you want. You're ordering food, you eat all the pizza, the ice cream, whatever. And then the other end of the spectrum on social media is like
perfectly curated kind of fake persona where everything just doesn't seem real because it's so perfect. And so then you have all of this space in the middle that I don't feel like is really being occupied and it creates a really unhealthy image for people and especially young women to see. You I think a lot about, you know, when you and I were kids, we were not online. Like we were not on Insta, Facebook.
That came later in our lives, like probably when we were like late teenagers or whatever. But you have a lot of these people now who grew up or are growing up with social media and they're seeing these very unhealthy extremes that is just setting them up for failure in a lot of ways.
Tim Doyle (39:54.732)
Yeah, and especially at a young age when you're growing up with it, that's just your default setting then. So you're like, okay, this is normal. This is what life looks like. Going to that content thing, what I call that woe is me content. And I completely agree with you where it's such a danger when, especially social media influencers, or if you consider yourself a content creator, where you get into the mindset where you almost put these lenses on where
You only see the negative stuff within your life. And instead of trying to navigate it or get through it, you just look at it from the perspective of, this can be content for me. This is content creation and I will get engagement from this. will get likes, I will get followers. And that's a totally different conversation. That could be a deep dive. yeah. And that's really interesting. I never put that together though, where, yeah, when you combine the
negative stuff that you're going through with, okay, let me just cope with this with food.
that just creates such an unhealthy experience. You say an interesting thing within your book. You say the most obese people are the most malnourished. And I had to like double check that I read that the right way at first, because I think at first glance, someone may think, wait, that must, that must be a misprint being obese and being malnourished. That doesn't make sense because obese people.
obviously eat a lot. you just explain what you mean by that?
Gina (41:36.711)
Yeah, it's because the ultra processed foods that a lot of people suffering from obesity eat on a very regular basis, it's basically void of any nutrition. So just because you're consuming a lot of calories does not mean that you're consuming a lot of nutrition. And that's also why a lot of people, try to eat less and they're like, I'm consuming.
less calories, but I don't know why I'm still not losing weight and I still feel horrible. It's because calories and nutrition aren't the same thing. So you could be overeating or you could be under eating and the quality of your food and the sort of nutrition and the micronutrients that your body needs, if you're not getting them, then you're not achieving the health that you want for your body. So what's happening now is you're seeing a lot of people that are obese. And I think the latest statistic
is 52 % of American adults are obese, not just overweight, because the statistic that we heard before that was 42 % or 43 % of American adults are obese, and now it's over half. And if you look at what these people eat, like they are consuming a high number of calories, but it's essentially nutritionless food. So we have to rethink the way that we approach our diet, and we have to really rethink what we're eating. And I think another
big factor is that most of these people are eating out for the majority of their meals. They're ordering in from DoorDash, they're picking up something from Dunkin' Donuts on the way out to work. They're not cooking, so we've lost the relationship with our food. So they don't know what goes into their food. And then of course you talk about something like seed oils, right? Which is the most common types of oils that you're going to see everything cooked with. And these seed oils, change a lot of what's happening in your body metabolically.
and it causes your body to hold onto fat tissue differently. We're not cooking anymore with butter or ghee or extra virgin olive oil or beef tallow or even coconut oil. So the quality of the food is so low, even though people are eating high amounts or high quantities of it, that it's resulting in obese people who are severely malnourished.
Tim Doyle (43:52.76)
So we've dug deep here within like all the problems and the dangers here. And hypothetically, like if somebody feels like they are deep within this hole, but they're like, okay, I got to find a way to dig through to the other side. Now you talked about the nutrition there. Where can people or like if somebody's like, okay, I got to create a game plan for myself here. Like what do you, what would you tell, you know, a client of yours or somebody who's just looking for advice?
Gina (44:20.585)
Well, the first thing to understand is that you're not going to change everything overnight and that's okay. I try not to put too much on my clients' plates in the first couple of weeks because if you try to change 15 things in your day to day, you're probably going to fail at all of them and then you're going to feel really discouraged about it. So I would say the number one place to start and it's really simple is just start cooking your own food.
Just avoid eating out so often, avoid the prepackaged meals, avoid the ultra processed snacks. Just try to have three square meals a day, most of which you're cooking. Try to do some meal prep, try to find some pretty simple recipes online. Get something like a slow cooker or an instant pot, which is really easy to use because you can just toss in like three to five pounds of chicken or beef and then make a recipe that you can have sitting in the fridge for the next few days.
Just start cooking and start figuring out what you're putting into your body. Start having more control over what's going into your body. And I really like this tip because it's applicable to all walks of life. It's applicable to pretty much anybody regardless of what kind of neighborhood or what kind of town you live in. Because even if you're living in a food desert, for example, which a lot of people say is the reason, the number one reason why people are sick and overweight.
There are a lot of places in even low income areas where you can get some rice, dried beans, some kind of protein, like just cooking at home as much as possible, I think is the number one place to go. And then from there, you can take different steps, like making sure you're eating enough protein a day. Take your weight in pounds, and generally that's how many grams of protein you should be eating a day. But if you're somebody who is quite overweight, you can always multiply your weight by 0.8.
and then that's the number of grams of protein a day. Or you can even go to like your goal weight, take what your goal weight is, and then that's the number of grams of protein you should be eating a day. So taking little steps like that, even little things like what's your drinking water source? Water is something that we should all be consuming every day. Your body is mostly made up of water. Instead of going for the tap water or the bottled water, having a healthy source of water like a reverse osmosis,
Gina (46:41.383)
or getting one of those standing filters you can get in your kitchen like a Berkey, you know, just little ways that you can get rid of a lot of these endocrine disruptors that we're usually consuming every day. And then another big component of course is daily movement. Even if you don't have access to a gym and even if you're somebody who does not do any physical exercise at all, that's okay. I would just have you start walking every day. Walking is free. You can do it.
pretty much anywhere you live, can find somewhere to walk. Or if you can get access to a gym, you can always get on the treadmill. Just walking every day is a really nice way to help with digestion, help with balancing your blood sugar, and then of course helping to burn the calories and just move the body more. And then from there, eventually getting into a few strength training sessions a week. But my biggest piece of advice, because that's a lot that I threw out there, is just start small and make realistic goals for yourself.
have somebody to hold you accountable. That can be a friend or your boyfriend or girlfriend, husband or wife, or a sister or a cousin, somebody that you can check in with and be like, hey, this is what I'm doing this week to get healthier. This is what I'm doing this week to improve my life. And just have somebody that encourages you and helps you see the bigger picture because you may not see a change day to day or even week to week, but you will see a change month to month. So,
You just have to stick with it and be as patient and consistent as you can.
Tim Doyle (48:11.074)
Yeah, it's all about the incremental small changes. And if somebody has been on the opposite end for months or years, you know, you're not going to gain all that back just within a couple of days or so. I'm curious to know if you've ever witnessed this or if it's even possible when it comes to food. But with the addictive tendencies to food, like, is it possible to have some type of withdrawal if you try to?
cut out all junk food.
Gina (48:41.792)
Definitely. Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen things like headaches, bloating, issues going to the bathroom. Sometimes I've even heard this, will sweat, like night sweats especially if you're trying to like wean off of very high sugar diets or high like trans fat diets. So there's definitely some withdrawal type of side effects that can happen. I would say it's not that common.
But it can happen. And that's why it's so important to have somebody that's like an accountability buddy, because that person can just keep you encouraged and you can just talk to them about it. Be like, this is what's happening. It's weird. And just have somebody encourage you to motivate you. But it definitely can happen. even when it comes to cravings, if you're somebody who is addicted to sugar, there are ways that you can sort of like find ways to substitute that's still going to give you, almost like give you your fix.
So here's an example that's worked for actually quite a few of my clients. Ice cream is one of those things that everyone loves to eat at night. So what I would have a lot of my clients do is chop up maybe like four or five bananas, slice them, put them in the freezer. So you always have frozen banana. And then at night you take one scoop of a protein powder that you really like. And some people will choose like their favorite flavors of protein powder, whatever it is. And then they put in maybe one frozen banana into a blender, a little bit of milk of your choice.
and just put as little liquid as you can so you can get a nice ice cream consistency. And it's sweet. for example, one of my clients really likes this protein powder that's like ice cream sandwich flavor. And that trick has helped her lose like 15 pounds in the last couple of months because she's not completely denying herself of a sweet treat at the end of the day, but she's doing it in a way that's helping her get like 25 extra grams of protein.
It's more satiating and it's using that banana instead of some sort of processed sugar to help get that hit of something sweet. So there are ways that you can kind of play with your cravings and find different ways to answer those cravings.
Tim Doyle (50:57.004)
Yeah, I mean, awesome. I'm curious to know because I mean, I eat very healthy. Like I cook all my meals. I'm very regimented. I pretty much just eat the same meals all the time. And I feel like
And I've experienced this in the past. Like I don't, never eat fast food, but like the last time I had fast food, almost feels like my body rejected that. Do you see that a lot with your clients?
Gina (51:25.726)
Yes, a lot, so much. I see it with myself too. mean, a lot. see it with when my husband and I first got together, he was eating like kind of healthy, but he would eat out quite a bit. And then after, you know, we'd been together for quite a while and I was cooking a lot, we were eating a lot of food at home. I'll never forget, we had recently moved here to Tennessee and we were just on a really good clean eating kick. And there was one night where we decided to have barbecue, Tennessee barbecue.
somewhere at one of those, classic Nashville places. And my husband woke up the next morning and he was like, I feel like I've been hit by a truck. It's like, I feel almost hungover. I'm like, me too. It's very, very common for people who are pretty healthy, who eat well, cook all their own food. If you, you go out to eat, it's like, it puts a dent in your body because you're eating things that you don't normally eat. And I have a lot of clients who say,
I've been eating so good for the past month. I want to go out to dinner with my husband and enjoy something that's a little bit naughty. I'm like, yes, go do it. know, pizza, whatever it is that you want. And they always come back to me the next day and they were like, I don't even know if that was worth it because I feel awful. Like I have foggy brain. I didn't sleep well. I was like kind of sweaty overnight. I feel really bloated. I don't feel that great. And I'm like, it's very, very common.
Tim Doyle (52:46.99)
Another common thing for me is even if I go out and get something healthy, I get very dehydrated because I feel like that is the real kicker even for healthy meals at restaurants, just the amount of sodium and the oils within it, which I find really fascinating. And yeah, I mean, I've gotten to a point where, I mean, I rarely even crave other foods or like, you know, bad foods or cheap foods because I know that the negative
feelings I'm going to feel after and not about like psychologically like, I cheated on my diet, but it's strictly just, you know, physiologically.
Gina (53:23.743)
Yeah, yeah, it's awful. mean, I recently, it's just like almost embarrassing. Recently for a friend's birthday, she wanted to go to Chili's. That's what she wanted. She was like, I've been eating so clean. She was like, we're doing this. You see all the mukbangs with the mozzarella sticks and the honey chipotle chicken tenders. So we went and the next day we all just felt horrible. We were like, what was that?
Tim Doyle (53:47.694)
I find it really interesting how you also bring the spiritual into this conversation. I had Jeff Krasnow on my show a little while back. He wrote this book called Good Stress, which was all about how chronic disease, the the root of that is how we've created a culture of chronic ease. And he was diagnosed with diabetes and he had a real awakening.
Gina (54:09.409)
Hmm.
Tim Doyle (54:17.238)
of just like really taking control of his health. And one of the keys for him was fasting. And it turned into not just a physical experience for him of trying to redirect his health, but he said it was a real spiritual experience where, you know, having that feeling of hunger and understanding that that was more psychological rather than
Gina (54:34.56)
Yes.
Tim Doyle (54:44.524)
like biologically, like, I need food and just like sitting with that feeling of emptiness and like just sitting in that state of not doing anything about it and not trying to consume other things with that, like whether like going on social media with your phone or trying to distract you, but just like sitting in that fasted state, he said it turned into a real spiritual experience for him. And I think food is a real
spiritual factor on both ends of the spectrum. Like food can bring people together. Like you were saying, those blue zones, like food is a big part of that and food is a big part of community and spiritual experiences. But on the opposite end of that, like food can be used to fill a void. And I think what that void is a lot of the time can be seen as like, I'm trying to fill a spiritual void. And that is a bottomless pit.
Gina (55:33.942)
Hmm.
Tim Doyle (55:43.734)
So would be curious to know more of your thoughts on the spiritual and how it relates to this conversation.
Gina (55:50.124)
love that question. think it's probably the most important question because I think, and I was talking about this on my Instagram recently, I honestly think, and this sounds crazy to some people, but I think that we have a moral and a spiritual sickness in American culture. And I think that's the root of lot of issues, whether it's health and food and diet, whether it's sex and dating, whether it's politics, culture.
marriage, family, I really think that everything comes from a moral and spiritual wellbeing. And I'm an Orthodox Christian and one of the traditions in Orthodox Christianity is we actually fast every Wednesday and Friday. And the fast is meant to be no meat, eggs, dairy, wine. So you're eating essentially as little as possible. Some people will like truly fast on those days, but
the people, most people who follow that type of fast, just eat sparingly, you know, and they don't eat anything in those categories. And as Orthodox Christians were taught that to fast regularly is a big part of our Christian faith, because fasting is an incredibly powerful tool for a lot of things, mainly for us to feel closer to Christ.
and for us to rely on God to fulfill our needs more than relying on something like food. And there's some other things, some other reasons too, of course, but I think fasting is very, very powerful. I fast once a week, like full fast one day a week. It's not for weight loss. I don't recommend that type of fasting for people who are trying to lose weight if they have serious weight loss goals, but
I think fasting can be very powerful because it does force you to sort of deny your base fleshly desires. And that in and of itself can really help elevate you spiritually. And it helps you come face to face with a lot of the things that you might be fighting mentally and spiritually. So yeah, I think it is a really important thing to think about and talk about that the root of many societal ills, including and especially
Gina (58:10.646)
health and obesity is a sort of moral and spiritual sickness that a lot of people don't want to talk about because it can be very uncomfortable. And, of course not everyone shares the same exact faith, but I don't think that, I don't think many people can deny that starting from a moral and spiritual place is going to be important for us if we want to reach a better place as a society, if we want to see more healing overall.
Tim Doyle (58:36.108)
And that's a full 24 hours that you do.
Gina (58:39.008)
I do. mean, I guess it be 20, 36 hours. I'll stop eating, like I'll quit eating at dinner and then I won't eat until not that day, but the next morning. So basically like a day and a half later. It's not something that I was doing up until pretty recently. I'm still nursing my son a little bit, but it's pretty sparingly. But when I was like nursing and of course pregnant, it's not something that I would do, but I find it to be helpful.
Tim Doyle (58:51.246)
Gotcha.
Gina (59:08.858)
And you do, just like you said, you're very tempted to like grab the phone and scroll. I gotta do something. Like I'm hungry, I gotta do something, I gotta distract myself. Because food is a distraction for many of us, just like social media, just like anything else. It can be a major distraction from what we're feeling, which is why a lot of my clients, we talk about many of the emotional stresses in their life, because you can't.
You can't fully understand your relationship with food unless you take an honest look at yourself and talk about what is stressing you. What are the emotional and mental stressors in your life? So yeah, I'm a fan of fasting for spiritual reasons for sure.
Tim Doyle (59:53.634)
Yeah, and bringing that back into you saying the obese are the most malnourished. I feel like a similar thing can be said where a lack of spirituality is its own type of malnourishment. And that's a much deeper, deeper type of malnourishment.
Gina (01:00:13.442)
Yeah, I agree with that 100%. And that's why in this age that we live in right now, it's over consumption of everything. But that over consumption is like, hardly any of that is nourishing, right? Anything you consume TV, social media, it's like, but none of that is really nourishing us.
Tim Doyle (01:00:31.81)
Like I said earlier, I take really good care of myself, I would say, eat healthy, get physical fitness. But when I was diving into your work and when I was reading your book, I still had that sense of fear reading it because I'm like, ooh, this is kind of tough to read. And almost like having thoughts of like, am I taking the best care of myself that I possibly could be? But then always come back like, no, I'm I stay physically fit. Do you feel like
that was conscious when you were writing it or something that just naturally happened, like having that little sense of fear, like was that intentional?
Gina (01:01:10.814)
always, I still have that fear today. I'm always like, am I doing enough to take care of myself? It's funny because the only people I feel like really ask that of themselves are the ones who are doing a pretty good job taking care of themselves. know, I think because especially if you think about the average person in America right now, the average person is quite unhealthy. So if you think about it in that terms also like where
where we are. I not that I don't want it to sound like we're above them or anything, but what we're doing to take care of ourselves is light years ahead of what the average person is. But of course, I still have these thoughts like, am I doing enough? And especially being a parent, like you think about, I doing enough for my kids? Especially, you know, if women who are pregnant or nursing constantly asking ourselves, are we doing enough to remineralize and to nourish ourselves so we can nourish our children? It's a it's a constant question. But I think it's a good thing to ask.
in a way of curiosity, not in a way of paranoia. Like, what else can I be doing? Is there anything that I could possibly change? And sometimes for people that means just slowing down. Because I do think that we live in a culture that's very do, do, do, go, go, go. And I'm very much a person that's like that. like, I'm a doing person. And sometimes I struggle with just being. And personally, one thing that
I have had to really think about and confront for my own health is to find ways to just slow down. And rather than being like, well, I'm going to do this, this, and so I'm going to do red light therapy. I'm going to do Epsom salt bath. I'm going to do this. Maybe you just sit and be for a while because our nervous systems are constantly overloaded. There's always stressors happening. yeah, mean, me as a mom with young children, like constant stressors. So sometimes if we want to
be curious and ask ourselves, what can I do that's better for myself? Sometimes that's just slowing down and just being for a while.
Tim Doyle (01:03:13.07)
Yeah, our wellness or physical health routines can get us to a point of stressing us out more than helping us. And I think that's definitely something I've experienced. Like if I miss a workout or something, it's like, dude, it's one workout. so completely agree with you on that. Where I want to finish is how you finish your book. Building off of the fear, you say,
Gina (01:03:27.671)
Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Doyle (01:03:38.922)
Shame is not the adversary to a long and meaningful life in the midst of chaotic suffering. Shame is the key. Why do you think shame is the key?
Gina (01:03:48.878)
I don't think there's anything wrong with shame. In fact, think that shame is a very useful tool in our lives. And it's not a way to beat ourselves up and to think less of ourselves, but rather shame is an indicator that we are doing something that is maybe immoral or that is stopping us from reaching our full potential. And personally, from a Christian perspective, when we feel shame,
it's an indicator that we're doing something that keeps us farther away from God. And I think that's an important thing to identify it in our culture today, which is all about the sort of gratuitous, immediate gratification, right? This culture we live in where we want everything right away, right away. We've been taught that shame is...
something that we should never ever feel. Don't ever feel shame about your actions. Don't ever feel shame about anything that you do. I don't think that's the answer. I think that if we identified and confronted our own shame sometimes, it would probably help us elevate ourselves and our lives. Now that's very different than shaming someone else for their choices and pointing the finger and saying, you're doing all this wrong. I think if all of us collectively,
looked inwards in ourselves and identified maybe some shame that we feel, whether it's some thoughts that we have or our actions or the way that we respond to other people. I think it can open the door for a much better and healthier lifestyle overall.
Tim Doyle (01:05:26.584)
Yeah, I love that shame is kind of the force to becoming more internally transparent with yourself. I really like that. Gina, love the conversation that we had today. Where can people go to connect with you, learn more about you and your work, anything else you'd want to plug?
Gina (01:05:35.139)
Hmm.
Gina (01:05:45.09)
Yeah, sure. I have my YouTube channel called The Shift with Gina. You can find me on Instagram at GMFlorio and you'll find the links there for my book, Fat and Unhappy, and also links to my women's health group. if anybody is interested in coaching as well, I do coaching with some one-on-one clients too. So thank you for the time, Tim. I'm really glad that we could make this happen and I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you.
Tim Doyle (01:06:11.064)
Great talk with you.
