#095 - Tim Doyle - 43 Life-Changing Insights On Healing, Purpose, Pain & Becoming Who You Are

43 interviews. 43 insights. One powerful year of podcasting. In this solo episode, I look back on every guest I spoke with in 2025 and share the one insight from each that left the deepest mark on me. From redefining healing and success, to understanding pain, purpose, and the power of stillness—this is a personal, reflective journey through the conversations that shaped me, and might just shift something in you too.

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Transcript

43 interviews. 43 insights. One powerful year of podcasting. In this solo episode, I look back on every guest I spoke with in 2025 and share the one insight from each that left the deepest mark on me. From redefining healing and success, to understanding pain, purpose, and the power of stillness—this is a personal, reflective journey through the conversations that shaped me, and might just shift something in you too.

Tim Doyle (02:07.406)

This year I had the opportunity to interview 43 people for my podcast. And like how I did it last year, what I'm going to do again is give a key insight that I took away from each conversation. So like I said, 43 interviews, that means 43 insights. Let's dive right into it, right at the top, going back to the very first conversation that I had for 2025, Edie Littlefield Sunby.

Healing is a fluid process. Physical movement can help with that process. Edie is a remarkable woman. She dealt with cancer, terrible lung cancer, had been given three months to live in the early 2000s, and she's still alive now. She has one lung.

and getting into this idea of healing being a fluid process and physical movement being a key to that process. She walked the entire El Camino Real from Mexico to California. She did it in two stints. First stint being all of California and then doing Mexico thereafter. A total of 1800 miles walking with one lung.

And the walking was a key part of her healing process for two reasons. One, because she needed that movement and she needed that extra exercise to have the ability to.

Tim Doyle (03:53.452)

strengthen her breathing. So like from a physiological sense, that was key for her. But then also the spiritual and greater and deeper healing process that came from that is truly what

Tim Doyle (04:34.848)

is truly what allowed her to heal in ways that the medical system necessarily wouldn't have allowed her to. And obviously it can be very tough when we're going through

either different physical and medical challenges or just challenges in general, I feel like we can get into the habit and the belief system of staying still. Whether that is literally in a physical sense, but also just, you know, mentally, that's something that I definitely experienced when I've gone through painful situations, especially the most painful situation that I went through with dealing with terrible chronic pain. I

literally went into a stagnant state.

And healing like we're talking about here, healing is a fluid process. You need stimulation. You need movement and physical movement is a key to that because when you have physical movement, it allows for mental movement and emotional movement.

Tim Doyle (05:47.084)

James Bracken IV. Don't use work to chase goals. Find work that allows you to enjoy the passing of time.

This is something that has definitely been a huge evolution for me within my work and my understanding of what it means to find work that truly feels good and lights you up. If you are undertaking things just to try to get from point A to point B,

Why is that the most enjoyable work for you to be doing? Like, yes, you want to achieve things. It's important to want to achieve things. It's good. It's natural. But if you're completely focused on that, if that is the main driving force.

I feel like there's other work out there where you can get that, but you can also enjoy the day-to-day grind and input of it because that is what you get to enjoy every single day. Like the work that you get to do every single day, that is what you get to live. Achieving some type of result or getting some type of win, that's very short-lived, but the work, that is what you truly own.

And that is truly what you get to do.

Tim Doyle (07:17.634)

Dr. Andrew Newberg, pain is a gateway to greater spiritual experiences. Shortly here, pain breaks you down and that breaking of your shell, your identity, who you think you are.

It allows for.

Tim Doyle (07:44.12)

the light to shine through in a way.

It completely takes your guard down. You go into this state of surrender and it allows for these higher powers to work on you and for you to be introduced to your higher self.

And this is an experience that I've shared a lot about.

when it comes to this relationship between pain and spiritual experiences for me, but just to share it again, dealt with a lot of bad chronic back pain, herniated discs for months on end, nothing was helping me. And I just had to keep the faith that I would be able to get through this and find.

a way to healing and I would just keep telling myself there's got to be a reason, there's got to be a reason. And I finally got to the point, you know, six to seven months down the line where I finally started to find the work that was helping me when I, you know, it was a, it was a mind, body holistic approach to healing. And I was in mass, finally got back to going to church. And one of the main reasons why I stopped going to church is because it would just be so painful to

Tim Doyle (09:12.652)

sit down or kneel. So I just stopped going. But thankfully I'd gotten to a point where the pain was starting to subside and I felt like I was able to get back to church. And one of the very first times that I was back in church was like feeling a lot of pain, wasn't like able to do the work in the moment that was helping me. And it got to a point in mass where we're kneeling down and we all recite.

Lord, I'm not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed. And in that moment, especially right when we said the word healed, I felt that I felt those words physiologically, like those words were working on me and I felt this feeling of pain just release. And that's what goes to Dr. Andrew Newberg. Dr. Andrew Newberg is a pioneer in

neuro theology, which is understanding how this idea of God, whatever that means to you affects our brain on a neurological level.

Tim Doyle (10:24.424)

and those types of moments can rewire your brain to a degree. And that was that one moment.

completely changed who I was.

Tim Doyle (10:47.95)

but I wasn't able to get there on my own. It's not like I willingly undertook that. It's not like I said, I want to get more spiritual. It's not like I said, I want to become more faithful. So let me concoct this type of experience. No, this was this stem from unwilling experiences, unwilling pain, this stem from an unwilling breaking. And I broke in ways that were very painful and very tough.

Like I said, that breaking was also the breaking of the shell to allow for these higher powers to work on.

Tim Doyle (11:27.768)

Caleb Campbell, the ground you're looking for is the exact same ground you're already standing on. It's so common for us to get into the mindset of, I'm trying to get over there. I'm trying to get over there. when I achieve this, then this will be able to happen. when I'm able to, you know, be at this point in my life, then I'll be able to do this. We constantly feel like we need to be somewhere else.

When in actuality...

Where we think we need to get is right where we need to be right now.

Tim Doyle (12:08.056)

When in actuality where we think we're trying to get to, it's the exact same environment. It's the exact same person. It's our exact same mindset. It's just that we are, we have this perceived belief. We have this perception that well, where I am right now, it possibly can't be correct. But like we, we like to make things harder than they need to be.

And this is something that's definitely helped me as well, where I'm like, wait, like the person that I want to be is who I've always been.

Tim Doyle (12:48.524)

And so when you flip that, like if we're, if we're thinking like, like I'm standing in my own way here. I'm believing that I need to be somewhere else. Well, then you have the exact same power to do the opposite of getting out of your own way and seeing, where I want to be is exactly where I am right now.

Tim Doyle (13:14.774)

Ryan Hawk and Brooke cups. Success is not the goal, but a byproduct of excellence. Everyone wants to be successful. You're not going to meet a single person who wouldn't say, yeah, I don't want to be successful or I don't want success or I don't want to feel what that is like. success is not the goal. It's a byproduct. what this delineation here between

success and excellence. It's kind of similar to how I see, you know, what we were talking about earlier between don't use work to chase goals, but find work that allows you to enjoy the passing of time. Success is that it's that end. It's the end line of something. It's that end product, but excellence is the inputs. It's what you're able to do on a daily basis. Like if you hold that high level of excellence,

natural byproduct of that will be success. And that's the mindset that I have. I'm like, if I just hold myself to the highest bar that I possibly can, at the end of the day, it's naturally going to lead down the path to good things, to interesting things. Like, if you were to tell me, hey, what's your end goal with this podcast or any work? I would say, I don't know.

Like that's, that's truly how I feel. I'm like, I don't know, but I'm like, if I hold myself to excellence when it comes to this podcast or anything that, any work that I'm doing, you know, if I hold myself to excellence, what that means, like doing good outreach to people, doing good research on people, you know, holding myself to a high bar with these conversations, that's what excellence looks like. And I'm of the belief then, okay.

Well that will naturally lead to interesting things.

Tim Doyle (15:23.032)

Kenneth Stanley, focus on the past, not the future for direction and guidance. You understand what happened in the past. You don't understand what will happen in the future. This is.

something that was such a light bulb moment for me, like something that I felt like I had been doing, but didn't have the language or like the idea from somebody else, you know, sharing it with me. So it was just such a huge unlock because what my mindset has gotten into and it gets into this, you know, focusing on excellence as well.

It's like, you know, what, did I do yesterday? What did I do yesterday? And how can I build off of that? And how can I just keep pushing a little bit forward past that? Because

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similar, you know, just that like very short term focus. Like if you continue to just like push a little bit, it will continue to lead down an interesting path.

Tim Doyle (16:33.506)

Because you don't know what the future is going to look like. You may have an idea or a vision for what you want the future to look like, but you can't control that. You only know what you did yesterday and you only know how you can improve upon that.

James Lawrence, the work you're truly supposed to do won't just hit you massively at once. It will slowly and quietly not you every single day.

James Lawrence is probably one of the craziest men I've ever had the opportunity to speak with, especially when it comes to a physical endurance perspective. He did a hundred Ironman. He did a hundred Ironmans in a hundred straight days. And then after that, just to show that like, Hey, go past the finish line.

that focus on excellence rather than goals, just that focus on inputs. He did one more after that to make it 101 in a row and that, you know, one more mentality continuing to push his limits. But if we're going to start at the, you know, before he had done this, he had had the idea for it and he sat on it for a little.

Tim Doyle (18:05.922)

And it's not something that just like hit him once like, Hey, like this would be a cool thing to do. And then it kind of dissipates. He said, no, like this was a very slow, quiet, just like, you know, tapping him each day of like, Hey, this is something you're supposed to do. This is something you're supposed to do. And it would just, it would eat at him. It would not him. And he's like, all right, like I got to do this then.

your best work, know, your best ideas won't be this, you know, massive over the top, like, boom, like, I got it. And then it'll go away. It's like, no, just it gnaws at you. It eats at you because it's like if you you don't do it, it's just going to continue, you know, like tapping you on your shoulder. And that was me with this podcast for a long time, you know.

I was a senior in college when I first had the idea and the thought of like, like, think I want to do a podcast. Like, I feel like I want to, you know, interview people. This feels like a interesting project. It feels like something that I could be, you know, good at. So that's when the idea was first born and then, just sat on it because I knew it wasn't the right time.

And then I got to the point where I felt like, okay, like I'm in a spot in my life where I can definitely start this up and definitely start creating this podcast and start interviewing people. But it wasn't until probably another five or six months after that point that I actually started it. And that five to six month span was very similar to what James Lawrence is saying here. Like, like those were a

in a way, kind of like a crappy five to six months because I just had this thing gnawing at me. just I just had this thing eating at me every single day of like, hey, why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing this? Why aren't you doing this? And that's what the best type of work feels like. It feels like. Man, if I don't do this, then I'm just going to be annoyed with myself or like my quality of life just isn't going to be good.

Tim Doyle (20:31.914)

And so it feels more of like, I don't have a choice. Like I need to do this.

Tim Doyle (20:42.018)

Dr. Eben Alexander, stories are medicine. This is something that I've spoken a lot about with my own experiences and sharing my own stories when it comes to my health journey and my medical journey when it came to sharing my story with chronic pain and how I healed and how that has been one of the

That has been the most impactful story that I have ever shared up until this point and has helped more people in more ways than I could have ever imagined. Especially people sharing, know, one person in particular sharing how literally listening to my story in real time, like she could feel a release of pain. And I had the realization and it stemmed back from the

Dr. Evan Alexander, know, stories are not just creative. They're not just artistic. They can have a true physical and medical effect on people. And this stemmed from his own experiences, an incredible near death experience where he suffered a very, very rare case of E. coli.

and had a near-death experience where he practically traveled to heaven. And, you know, it's such an incredible story for himself, but then the sharing of it and...

Tim Doyle (22:31.746)

like the sharing of that story, allowing people to get in touch with their higher self and their spiritual self. And this gets back to Dr. Andrew Newberg as well. Like Dr. Evans at Alexander went through that pain, went through that unwilling suffering. He went through that breaking and it literally brought him closer to God and heaven. And from a

you know, medical physiological standpoint, why that was the case is because his brain went offline, but his and then his consciousness released from his body. And Dr. Evan Alexander, this isn't some, you know, woo woo guy. This is a Harvard MD professor, you know.

neurosurgeon who

because he got into the medical space for a large portion of his life had a very mechanistic, nihilistic view of himself and the world. And then he goes through this experience and just like a complete 180.

And I remember reading his book. I couldn't recommend his book, Proof of Heaven Enough. I remember reading his book and yeah, like I could feel the effect of it, like on my body and on my mind reading this and it was remarkable. And it goes to what he said, you know, stories are medicine and they can work on you in a way that you don't expect.

Tim Doyle (24:24.408)

Katie Spots, you need to find a thing that drives you to develop yourself and then to develop even more, you need to release yourself from that thing.

Tim Doyle (24:55.212)

It's important to find a project, an activity that you can invest yourself in and devote yourself to on a consistent basis. I truly believe that is a fundamental part of life. We have our work, we have our relationships, we have our family.

And I believe another key integral thing to that is you need something that can be just for you where you step away from all of that and you're able to work on that and devote yourself to it so that you can improve on that thing.

And then as a byproduct of that, you develop as a person.

Tim Doyle (25:51.182)

for me, but that key thing was, was working out and lifting weights in the gym.

I do think as time goes on though, there's a diminishing rate of return where if you just continue to do it and you continue to do it, it can actually kind of hold you back in a way. And that's something that I experienced with working out where I, you know, I got super obsessed and you know, I got the returns that I needed from it. You know, I, I got more confident. I built my body physically. I built my mind.

But then I just continued going down that path. I continued sticking with it. And to a degree that obsession became a consumption. And the way that I needed to develop even more, and the way that I needed to make sure that, okay, I'm continuing to...

Tim Doyle (27:00.288)

And to get out of that cycle of diminishing rate of returns and get back into, how do I keep growing? How do I keep, you know, raising the bar here? Okay, now I need to do the opposite, actually. I need to step away from that.

I need to...

see what it's like to not be invested in this thing anymore.

And for me personally, that's not something that I willingly undertook or willingly thought of. It went back to my experiences with pain and being told, hey, you can't work out anymore. Like it wouldn't be safe or the right thing for you to do right now. And so for five straight months, I didn't lift weights. I was taken out of that environment. I was taken out of that mindset of me.

having that thing that I devoted myself to. And that introduced me to a completely new version of who I am as a person. And it showed me, Hey, like the world still goes on like without you going to the gym or like, Hey, like you still exist or like you can, you know, still have a life here without that being your thing. And so it's a two step process of

Tim Doyle (28:26.988)

Okay, let me devote myself to it.

And then, all right, let me step away from it. And I think that's the highest level of achievement or accomplishment within a given activity or type of work where you're able to step away from it. Where you're able to be like, okay, I've gotten everything that I need from this and now I can step away from it. don't, you know, I don't need it for

my sense of identity anymore.

Tim Doyle (29:06.402)

Dr. Loretta Bruning, unhappiness does not exist. We just have large fluctuations of happiness. It's not that you're unhappy, you're just feeling less happiness. This is just a total mental reframe where...

Tim Doyle (29:37.688)

This is just a total mental reframe and a total changing of the language that we use to understand our experiences and the emotions that we're feeling. And I think it's really helpful to, you know, I feel like we can always be of the mindset of like, you know, I'm really unhappy right now. Or, you know, I haven't been happy lately, but I think it can be really

beneficial for people to.

see this as we're always just on a spectrum of happiness. We're always just dealing with happiness instead of unhappiness. And when you are low on that spectrum, doesn't mean you're unhappy. It's just that you're feeling a low level of happiness. When you're high in that spectrum, you're really, really happy. And

It's not healthy or it's not practical to think that you can always be on the high end of that scale.

Tim Doyle (30:53.678)

Plus if you were on the high end of that scale, a hundred percent of the time.

That wouldn't feel like happiness anymore. What that would turn into is just your base level and it wouldn't feel like anything. So you need these fluctuations to feel the ebbs and flows of happiness. And like I said, when you're low on that level, it's just like, all right, not feeling a peak level of happiness doesn't mean you're unhappy. Doesn't mean that you're always going to be in that position. It just means, all right.

this isn't the best state or best feeling of feeling happiness.

Stephen Coller, doing the impossible is doing the ordinary and monotonous in an uncommon fashion.

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You're not always going to be doing over the top, big, exciting things on a daily basis to push the ball forward. It's the exact opposite of that. And people, I feel like we can get into the notion of if it doesn't feel exciting, it doesn't feel like a big punch or like a big sort of input, then it can actually lead to like some type of big or exciting output.

But like doing the impossible is actually just doing what is possible in a manner in which you're just so consistent. You just keep hammering away. You just keep chipping away like going back to what we were talking about earlier with Ryan Hawk and Brooke cups, like just keeping that high bar of excellence because it's like

The impossible, it seems like it is simple, which is like people aren't willing to do that on a consistent basis. And I'm not saying like for a day, a month, two months, half a year, New Year's resolution. It's like, no, what if you just had that as your baseline in your mindset for how you live your life?

Tim Doyle (33:11.79)

George Bonanno, trauma is an invention. This is something that I found really fascinating and something that I didn't know. But trauma is a manmade term. It wasn't a medical term that was science-based, but this was, like I said, an invention.

And I find it really fascinating because I feel like within our culture and society today, trauma has become a buzzword to a degree where we really don't actually understand what it means or fully hash it out where we always just think like, it's, you know, I'm dealing with trauma.

And obviously people go through very traumatic experiences, have traumatic instances, but always getting into this mindset and this narrative of dealing with trauma.

It's it can be a slippery slope. And I think it can hold us back rather than helping us in this conversation as a whole that I have with George, I highly recommend listening to the whole thing because.

Trauma is very narrative and story based and we have the power to

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shape that narrative and that story and we can shape a narrative and story that works against us.

but we also have the power to shape a story that can work for us and push us forward.

Dr. Edith Ubuntu-Chan, chronic stress is the core of all ailments.

Tim Doyle (35:33.28)

It's really fascinating. It's really fascinating how deeply intertwined stress is with

our mind on a psychological sense, but even more so on a physiological.

Tim Doyle (35:56.354)

but even more so on a physiological sense. And I feel like for the longest time, we've always seen stress as something that is just that we mentally deal with, or it's something, know, within our mind, you know, within our thoughts, you know, having.

stressful thoughts but stress does manifest in the body in a big way across the entire board and from Dr. Edith Ubuntu-Chan's work

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That is the root of everything.

Tim Doyle (36:42.442)

Akshay Nanavati, always aim to teach from wisdom, not knowledge.

Tim Doyle (36:54.04)

creating experiences for yourself.

especially from a physical fitness and endurance standpoint.

So that one, yes, obviously experiencing.

what it's like to go through something so physically demanding, but even more importantly,

What are the thoughts and the feelings and the wisdom that I'm being exposed to when I do those things so that then that can live on after that. Oxxay tried to become the first person to ski solo from coast to coast across Antarctica earlier this year. And he

Tim Doyle (37:49.838)

failed the physical science, but I remember I asked him, I was like,

Okay, you failed the crossing but did it feel like a failed excursion or did it feel like a failure of what you set out to do? And he said no for exactly what I was saying here because

you know, his time in Antarctica.

Tim Doyle (38:17.954)

You know, is short lived. But that wisdom.

that was garnered. That is truly what he was there for and that is what we'll live on.

Tim Doyle (38:33.762)

Yossi Ginsburg, I don't think therefore I am. I think out of all of my conversations that I had this year, that line in particular that he shared is the one that stuck with me the most. So simple yet so profound, especially because

we know of the line, I think therefore I am.

And it's the exact opposite of that.

within our society, especially me particular.

We think too much. We overthink. We overanalyze. We get in our way.

Tim Doyle (39:30.338)

We try to make the perfect decision. We try to complicate things when they shouldn't be.

Tim Doyle (39:43.382)

And so the antidote to that.

is not thinking. And I remember there's this meditation

that I like to do sometimes and it's a guided meditation and one of the lines within it is the quiet mind is the most powerful.

Tim Doyle (40:10.612)

And the way that I also like to rephrase that now and based off of what Yossi shared with me is the quiet mind is a mind that doesn't think. The mind just is.

Tim Doyle (40:28.63)

And so I think a real.

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power?

a real

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benefit. Being a strong thinker is knowing how not to think at times. Being a strong thinker is knowing when not to think or knowing how to turn off your mind and just be.

Tim Doyle (41:01.42)

Dan Millman.

Pain shakes you up. The strength of climbing out of a deep dark hole gives us the strength to climb mountains. And when Dan is talking about pain shaking you up, the emphasis on up here as in it shakes you upward, it moves you up. And this is some of that I've shared earlier this year as well and some that I had an epiphany on.

In the moment when we are going through something very, hard, it feels like the climbing out of that hole. That is what the perception of it feels like. It feels like we are below ground and we need to just get back to a level playing field, get back to being above earth.

When we get through whatever those challenges or hurdles are, and it feels like to an agree that we've overcome it or that we are past it, what that feeling feels like after does not feel like we are back on level ground. It feels like we just climbed the mountain and we are much higher than we ever were. And that goes to that perception. So like when you are in the thick of it, when it sucks,

It will feel like you are buried.

Tim Doyle (42:26.52)

But when you overcome it, when you beat it, it is a feeling of euphoria, a feeling that you've never felt before. And I'm talking about like something really, really sucky. Something that, you know, and I always like to, I've created the philosophy and the mindset of viewing things as willing undertakings versus unwilling undertakings.

And I feel like within this approach, where you see this a lot is within unwilling undertakings because this isn't something that you've asked for. Yes, you can get it to a degree. If you're somebody like James Lawrence, who's willingly taking on a hundred Ironmans in a hundred days. Yes, you will go to a place that not a lot of people have gone to, but you do have in the back of your head.

that you're still the one in control to a degree. You know when it's going to be over. You can count down how many days, how many iron mans you have left. When you're in an unwilling situation, you don't have the gift of time. You don't have the beauty of counting down the days. It's a lot of doubt and unknowing of, don't know when this is going to

But when it doesn't, when you do get past it, like I said, it doesn't feel like you were back on level playing ground. It feels like you just climbed a mountain and it goes to that perception. It feels like a hole right now. But then after that, you'd be like, whoa, I am much higher than I ever was.

Tim Doyle (44:19.522)

Michael Chernow. The mirror shows Michael Chernow. The mirror shows you what you can't see yourself. Michael Chernow has an incredible story of recovering from terrible drug addiction and alcoholism and was, you know, deep within the world of using drugs and selling drugs.

and just kept digging himself into that hole. Wasn't until he saw his reflection in a mirror after using drugs and him seeing that reflection and reflecting in his head.

like wow, I've never like, I've looked bad before, but I've never seen myself like the way that I look now.

And the thought that followed up with that was, dude, like you should just, you should end it. Like you should kill yourself. Like look at yourself. Like you.

look terrible. You don't have life figured out. Like it would be better if you just end it. And that thought was followed up with him blacking out.

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And he woke up the next day after that and he said it was the first time in his life that he truly felt like I'm ready to change.

And it's like that that mirror like see there's something about seeing yourself in a mirror.

in a bad state that shakes you up and wakes you up.

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that can't be seen in other ways, whether it's other people telling you or just experiences. There's something about seeing yourself that is just different.

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Dr. Langer.

There's no such thing as a stressful situation. Things simply happen and our response dictates the perception of it.

ties in nicely with what we were talking about earlier with Dr. Edith Ubuntu-Chan, how chronic stress is the core of all ailments.

All of life is perception. All the things that we go through, the experiences that we have, those things simply happen. And then we define how those affect us and how those mold us. And that's not to say that like,

hey, really, really bad stuff happens where you're like, you can do a bad car accident or something. It's not being, you know, naive or delusional. And you're like, well, this is a good thing. This is a good thing that this happened. I'm glad that this happened, but it's more so of just not going the completely opposite way of like, my life is over.

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this sucks, my gosh. But it's more so just living in the middle of, and kind of like being inquisitive and curious and asking questions rather than making statements and saying things of just like.

Well, let's see what comes from this.

I wonder how things will unfold after this.

Tim Doyle (48:34.186)

Gary John Bishop, we think we're looking for something, but we'll Gary John Bis Gary John Bishop, we think we're looking for something, but what we actually want is a start from nothing.

Tim Doyle (49:05.57)

like I was talking about earlier, we always feel like we're trying to get somewhere else. I want to be over there. when this happens, then I'll be able to get

when a lot of the times it feels like...

We are where we need to be.

I just need to allow myself to take a step back.

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remove the baggage, remove what isn't serving me, and allow myself to...

start from zero again basically and that is a lot.

Easier said than done. Whether it's.

a job, a relationship, the environment that you're living within. It's tough to take a step back from stuff that you currently have in place and allowing yourself the freedom to breathe again to a degree and allow yourself to figure things out.

Tim Doyle (50:16.942)

And I keep harping on this. This was also one of the hidden benefits of my whole experience with chronic pain and a lot of the conversations that I have with people who go through unwilling experiences. That breaking.

It allows them the autonomy or gives them the confidence to feel like they can start from nothing again. Because to a degree they did. They go through something really tough. I go through this pain. It feels like a start over to a degree. It feels like a new life where, okay, let me make decisions now from this new starting.

Tim Doyle (51:05.902)

Dean Karnazes, you can run your way out of a depression.

Tim Doyle (51:15.566)

And this is going back to what we were talking about at the very, very start. Healing is a fluid process. And what that fluidity looks like, especially for Dean Karnazes, it looks like physical movement.

Dean tragically.

lost his sister when they were both very young. I think early she was early 20s. He was mid to late 20s and it crushed him and running was that way out. literally ran his way out of a depression and it's not so much of

Tim Doyle (52:00.022)

running away mentally, you know, not so much of a, I don't want to deal with this. I don't want to cope or have to navigate this, but using physical exertion as that way of running through it.

of, okay, I'm going to break through this.

Tim Doyle (52:30.934)

Eric Hinman, personalization is the future of health and wellness.

It feels like the days are gone of especially within.

the medical system and finding medical care where, know, just these one size fits all solutions. People want to feel like they are having a personalized experience and getting personalized care and having personalized solutions. And I think you're seeing a lot of

Tim Doyle (53:10.934)

Incredible brands and companies within the health and wellness space. The one that just sticks out to me and is top of mind is Function Health from a blood work perspective. And that company and Function Health giving people that personalized experience. Having people feel like their personal makeup, their

authentic identity and their

one of one physiological makeup is being taken care of. And that is what people want.

Tim Doyle (53:56.45)

Dr. Ronald Epstein, better doctor-patient relations start with the relationship with cells.

A lot of what Dr. Epstein's work is, basically giving doctors the tools, especially from a mindfulness standpoint, to create that better relationship with themself. Because if doctors have a better relationship with themself, if they are taking care of themselves better on a personal internal level, a byproduct of that is then being able to take care of patients and taking care of others in a way that

potentially has really never been seen before.

Tim Doyle (54:41.058)

Melissa Nanevadi, love can enhance high performance.

Tim Doyle (54:48.524)

Melissa is doing interesting work at an intersection of high performance and love, and she calls it high performance love. And it's really fascinating when you put those two things together together, because I feel like within our society and culture, you really don't see conversations or work like that.

where people are combining those things or understanding the effect that.

love and romantic relationships have on high performance and the other way around. So really, really fascinating work.

Dr. Dan Siegel, the solo self is the root of a lot of the world's problems. This was probably the most enlightening conversation that I had this year. And this understanding of the self as one, especially within US culture, I mean, like we have a romanticized understanding of individuality, you know?

The lone wolf, the 1 % the alpha, the goat, like we praise the one and I'm a big believer. Yeah, like it's one thing to be yourself and find your individuality and find your authenticity and find your your it factor or you know what find what only you have, you know, playing your own game.

Tim Doyle (56:36.546)

you know, being a trailblazer, striking your own path, all really, really good and important stuff.

Tim Doyle (56:47.33)

But with that being said.

When we live within a culture where it feels like that is just the norm or like understanding of we're all separate individuals, it can lead to a lot of

bad problems or can be the root of a lot of problems and

When you feel like you're just going through life alone, or you don't have that sense of connectivity, or having that deeper knowing or feeling of appreciation that we're all connected, especially on a energetic and spiritual level, it can be very dark, honestly, just frankly speaking, or it can feel like...

Tim Doyle (57:51.726)

And this can be a root of a lot of problems when it comes to addiction and loneliness.

Tim Doyle (58:12.002)

And what I love about Dr. Segal's work is he brings

new language, especially his work on, he coined a phrase called interconnected and how we're all interconnected and how we have this shared experience of going through life that that can really, really help us.

Tim Doyle (58:37.29)

and Lore LeCunf. Being lost is freedom.

going back to what Gary John Bishop said as well, like being lost is allowing yourself to be in that state of nothingness, allowing yourself to start at nothing again and work from that and build off of that. And I feel like a lot of the time

Well, we have a negative connotation with, you know, feeling lost within the world.

Tim Doyle (59:17.24)

seems like the problem isn't being lost. The problem is us getting in the way and just not allowing ourself to be in that state of being lost.

For me personally, earlier this year, I was definitely in like that state of being lost for a couple months. like, yeah, it was kind of like weird and very like unsettling at times. But a lot of the time I was also like, well, this is kind of cool because a lot of different, I'm in a state right now where a lot of different paths could unfold or I have the freedom to walk down a lot of different paths. And so it goes to that perception again, life is perception.

You can perceive lost as, this is bad. Nothing good can come from this. Or you can perceive it as, this is freedom. This is a great place to be.

Cal Callahan unlearn what doesn't serve you and rewrite what ultimately can. Cal Callahan's got a great podcast called the great unlearn, but something that, I brought light to in the conversation that I had with them is because I was like, Cal, you've obviously, you know, branded yourself around this word unlearn, but I feel like that doesn't give the full picture.

of your life and your story and your work that you do and what you try to preach because unlearning I think gets us into the mindset of, this is something that I have right now and I'm just trying to get rid of it because it can't serve me in any way. And maybe there are certain things that you have to do that with, but I think a lot of the time it's about rewriting over what rewriting is.

Tim Doyle (01:01:16.202)

is basically like, okay, this isn't serving me right now, but I can do work or I can change my perceptions of things where I don't need to get rid of this, but let me rework it so then it can work in my favor.

Tim Doyle (01:01:36.802)

Dr. Anna Lemke, all of society and culture has become drugified. And on top of that, the drugification of culture, it's not just about drugs and substances that we physically consume and put into our body, but

Obviously a huge one in today's day and age is social media, technology, the drugification of media and technology and how it works on our brain, especially from a neurological perspective and from a dopamine perspective.

And one of the big parts of this that I love that Anna Lemke brought up is that the drugification of our culture and addiction in general, it's become frictionless and the accessibility factor of everything. You know, we can have accessibility to anything at a moment's notice. You know, when it comes to gambling, you know, it's not like

Okay, I need to drive 20 minutes to my bookie, right? I to, you know, drive to a casino or anything to place a bet.

Sitting on my couch, open up my phone, open up an app, and within five seconds, I just placed a bet. With social media and technology, same thing. Open up my phone, it's right there. The other one that she used was with porn. There's no more of, okay, I need to go down to my liquor store or convenience shop and pick up a Playboy magazine.

Tim Doyle (01:03:43.584)

Open up my phone, go on a website and it's right there. So obviously all of it stems back from our phone and technology. And that is the core of this now and why it's become so accessible. And it's a huge issue. And I think a huge part of it is, okay, staying off my phone, not going on my phone as much.

or using my phone in ways that I'm using as a tool to connect and use it to help me rather than hold me back. Because I'm a true believer, nothing is bad. It's just that we could have a bad relationship with it. Phones are not bad. Phones are not inherently bad. Maybe it's just that you have a bad relationship with your phone.

Gambling isn't Gambling isn't a bad thing. Maybe you have a bad relationship with gambling.

Tim Doyle (01:05:02.67)

We're building off Dr. Anna Lemke getting into, well, how do we.

building off Dr. Anna Lemke. And if you have questions of like, okay, shouldn't be on my phone as much. Well, what else can help me? What else should I be doing? And this gets into the work of Dr. Lisa Miller, which another one of my favorite conversations I had this year.

People who build a spiritual life are 80 % less likely to become addicted and two thirds less likely to become depressed. Nothing protects us more from despair like a strong spiritual life.

Tim Doyle (01:05:50.744)

We are spiritual beings. That is who we are at our core. We are spiritual beings living the human experience and we need to develop that relationship with our higher power, whatever that means for you, whether that's going to church, meditation, whether that is feeling like you have a relationship with God. If you like to use that identifier,

being open to knowing that.

you are connected to something much bigger and something so much more beautiful than just your bodily experience. And take away that I had from my conversation with Dr. Miller, and it goes to what she writes about in her book, you know, this connection between depression and spirituality and how having a strong

spiritual core protects us to depression. And the way that I perceive that

I think you can say the opposite there as well. Where if somebody is feeling depressed, if somebody is diagnosed with depression based off Dr. Miller's work,

Tim Doyle (01:07:24.32)

It's almost like depression then is the physical manifestation and the ask from your mind and your body to tap into your spiritual life and to tap into your spiritual door.

Tim Doyle (01:07:47.744)

It's the knock on the door. It's the tapping of, hey, there's a part of you here that...

Tim Doyle (01:07:57.794)

hasn't been looked at or it's been neglected to a degree. And now we're asking you to open yourself up to it.

Tim Doyle (01:08:11.48)

Jeff Krasnow, chronic disease in today's modern world stems from chronic ease.

Life is easy. Modern life has become easy. And I'm saying that from the standpoint of

We don't have to get food. We can drive to a store and food's right there. We have air conditioning.

Tim Doyle (01:08:40.93)

You know, we have phones where that they can just, you know, numb us and keep us entertained for literally 24 hours a day, seven days a week, Instagram and TikTok never go off.

Life has become so easy where we can literally just drift. And that is why it's become so hard. Life has become so easy that it's become so hard. We don't put ourselves into enough challenging, stressful situations like good stress, good challenges. And that's what

for going way back, that's what life was like. know, life was hard to a degree. And so because we have all this ease within our life.

Tim Doyle (01:09:47.224)

where the challenges or the hard comes into it is in an unwilling way. And what I mean by that is

through health problems and chronic diseases. That is where life becomes hard. And I'll say it again, life has become so easy that it's created such hard life. And I'll say it again, life has become so easy.

Society has become and I'll say it again life has become so easy that it's made life so hard

Tim Doyle (01:10:31.192)

Gideon Lev. Creativity gave Jewish people a piece of their humanity back during the Holocaust. Gideon Lev is a survivor of the Holocaust. He was in the concentration camp, Theresienstadt, for three years when he was a little taller from four years old to six years old.

And now he lives in Israel. Truly remarkable man, remarkable story, such as soft spoken man and something that I had no idea of and would have never realized. But what Gidan shared was that within the concentration camp that he was in, Theresienstadt, there were a lot of

performers and artists who were there.

and German

soldiers and German leaders who were running the camp would make these performance.

Tim Doyle (01:11:50.008)

these performers and these artists put on shows and different acts for their entertainment.

Tim Doyle (01:12:01.526)

And obviously within

the environment and why they were putting on these acts and these performances.

very dehumanizing.

Tim Doyle (01:12:21.39)

But the act of creativity, focusing on the craft, allowed these people to regain their humanity to do a sense.

Tim Doyle (01:12:35.438)

And obviously I don't want to apples to oranges.

but it shows.

Tim Doyle (01:12:50.27)

And I can't think of a more remarkable example that can show how powerful creativity is and the power of expressing yourself in a way that releases some type of creative passion that you have. Truly remarkable story and something that I, and that's why I love

micro experiences and finding stories and people like this where something that I've always said that comes from stories is like when you find the micro, you appreciate the macro on a much greater scale because if we're just talking about the Holocaust, you know, the scale of it, little things like that.

don't get shared or get lost in the weeds. But when you find the person, when you find the individual, when you focus on the micro, you're able to...

Tim Doyle (01:14:01.774)

shine a magnifying glass on things that get lost but are so important to the history of that. Just a truly remarkable story, Gidan as a whole, but something like that as well, think just so impactful.

Tim Doyle (01:14:22.232)

Ruthie Lindsey, you may break, but that does not mean you're broken. We go through experiences where we break.

where we get broken down.

Tim Doyle (01:14:40.418)

but the action of being broken down.

does not then simultaneously mean that your makeup as a person, that your identity as a person, how you view yourself, does not mean that you are a broken person.

Tim Doyle (01:15:03.554)

And like I said, and like we've talked about a lot here, breaking, breaking can be a very worthwhile experience. It can be very helpful.

Tim Doyle (01:15:20.138)

And what you see from that experience is that you don't actually feel like a broken person when you get past those terrible experiences. It's the exact opposite. That breaking effect alchemizes in you feeling like you've been built up in a way like you've never felt before.

Tim Doyle (01:15:43.022)

Josh Chuba. Focus on the opposite for chronic consumption. Josh is a repeat guest, love the conversations that I've had with him. Similar insight that I shared last year when he was on the show, but just like a slightly different wording here.

we've become so focused on chronic consumption, social media, you know, constantly just taking in, taking in, taking in. it's like, okay, how do we get past this? How do I break my chronic consumption? How do I make sure that, you know, I'm not going on social media or I'm just not going on my phone in general as much anymore. And I feel like the, the, the solutions that we always hear are, okay, like I need to put things in place that

or, you know, creating friction in my life where it's like, okay, you know, turning my phone on airplane mode a lot of the time, or, know, literally putting my phone in a box or whatever it is. And just like trying to find these things that continue to combat, combat, combat, combat.

And it's like, well.

If I hate how much I'm consuming and I hate how it's making me feel, what is the opposite of that? And the opposite of consumption is creation. And that is not a combative force at all. It's actually the exact opposite. It's a very freeing force and it's a release. And that's something that helped me in a realization that I had with healing my pain as well. You know,

Tim Doyle (01:17:28.948)

I continue to stay in pain when I was of the mindset of combating it. This is bad. This means something's wrong with me. This is means I'm broken. need to continue to fight this pain. need to continue to do all these treatments that are trying to keep the pain at bay and that just continued to keep me at pain and that just continued to keep me in pain. But when I did the opposite,

When I allowed myself to feel the pain, when I received the pain, when I understood that the pain didn't mean something was wrong with my body, but it was more so of a message. It was more so of a way of my body speaking to me and me needing to tune into that and go into conversation with myself. I started to heal.

And it's a very similar framework here where, okay, if I'm consuming a lot and I'm trying to put all these tactics into, need to stop consuming, stop consuming, stop consuming. You're kind of, you you're going into a boxing match a little, you're trying to fight it. But if we do the opposite, okay.

What's the opposite of consumption? Creation. Something that's definitely helped me, something that has helped Josh, I bet it could help you as well.

Tim Doyle (01:19:00.896)

Ed Latimore, being exposed to a new environment exposes you to a new version of yourself. The number one thing you can do, I think, to really change your life. Like you want to change your life, move somewhere. Move somewhere new, move to an environment that you've never been before and you will get exposed to a version of yourself that you've never felt, you've never seen. You will think new things, you will meet new people, you will

Feel new senses, it will just completely change your life.

Alex Hutchinson, relax your mouth. This is one that I shared earlier in my 27 lessons from 27 years of life. And I just got to repeat it again because it's helped me so much.

Relax your mouth from a physical sense. Alex was a very accomplished runner.

was very close to making the Olympics and is a writer now and he writes a lot about endurance and endurance sports, especially from a scientific perspective. And he shared in his book, Endure, you know, right before your racing, especially sprinters.

Tim Doyle (01:20:32.354)

Like our mindset or our belief is like, all right, like lock in, like, let's go here. And what can happen is you clench your teeth, you literally clench your teeth and you tighten up. If you keep your mouth relaxed, keeps your entire body relaxed. And it's something that's really, really helped me within the gym of keeping my body relaxed, but it's also just become like a philosophical signal as well. This for life, like, hey, relax your mouth.

Gina Bonciapo.

Gina Bontempo, body positivity keeps our focus on the physical and separates us from our truest and highest self. Something that I find so fascinating about the body positivity movement is that it keeps our focus on the body and our physical figure and our physical structure. And I feel like what true body positivity is,

is actually getting away from that in general, where we're not talking about our bodies. We're not talking about our physical shape. Yes, obviously, you know, it's you the body positivity movement was used to, you know, combat, you know, low body fat percentages and having the perfect body. But I think what true body positivity means is like

getting away from this conversation where we're just focused on our bodily makeup. Because like I said earlier, when we were talking about Dr. Lisa Miller and also getting into Dr. Eben Alexander, we are spiritual beings. Like our core is a soul. Like we are just living within our bodies right now within this physical experience of life, but we are not our bodies. So if we want to be,

Tim Doyle (01:22:32.782)

positive about our bodies, the main aim is to just separate that in general. The main aim is to just separate from that entirely.

Tim Doyle (01:22:50.607)

Howard Martin, listening to your heart is not hyperbolic talk.

Tim Doyle (01:23:06.894)

Howard Martin is one of the co-founders of the HeartMath Institute. It gets all into the science and physiology of understanding how we can tune into our heart and how our heart speaks to us. And the mind-body connection has played an integral role within my life. And I feel like within society and culture, it's something that

It's a term that's become much more readily apparent. And I feel like another term that needs to be understood, and this gets into Howard's work, is understanding the mind-heart connection.

Tim Doyle (01:23:55.064)

where our heart is in constant interaction with our mind. And it's our job to understand that. And it's our job to go into conversation and tune into our heart and feeling.

Tim Doyle (01:24:20.014)

and feeling what our heart is trying to tell us in a way. And it's a listening act and it's an act of translation. And like I said, going into that reflective conversation perspective.

And so that's not hyperbolic talk at all. You know, it's become so common to be like, listen to your heart where we kind of just, you know, poo poo it in a way. But from learning about Howard's work over the last decades, listening to your heart is very scientific and there's a lot of truth to it.

Tim Doyle (01:25:01.442)

Reed Olson, the drive to win comes from the pain that would be felt if you were a loser.

Tim Doyle (01:25:10.998)

I feel that 100 % as well. I'm not motivated. Read isn't motivated by winning. It's more so of a motivation of not wanting to lose because that would suck so much.

Tim Doyle (01:25:31.074)

Dr. Catherine Phillips, muscle dysmorphia comes from a void you're trying to fill. Muscle dysmorphia is definitely something to a degree.

Tim Doyle (01:25:45.016)

Dr. Catherine Phillips, muscle dysmorphia comes from a void you're trying to fill. I think muscle dysmorphia is probably one of the biggest problems within our society today with young men that isn't talked about at all. It's definitely something that I experienced to a degree when I was younger, like not in a real...

Not in a really, really bad way compared to, you know, what Dr. Phillips was talking about, like how it can truly consume people. but you know, it definitely impacted me. I would say like it impacted me like in within like a healthy way or whatever, where, you know, if you're a young guy, you know, young kid growing up and you get into the gym and you like it and you get into the mindset or you get exposed to like, like

If I work out in a certain way and I eat in a certain way, like, this can have a external effect on me and I can get bigger and I can, you know, grow more muscle. Like, yeah, like that definitely affected me in a way where it definitely consumed me. Like I said, though, like in a healthy way or not in a way that felt like it.

truly truly, you know, like was like consuming my entire life, but I was just like obsessed with the gym. But where this comes into play with this, you know, this void you're trying to fill is because it's definitely something that I experienced. And I think within most avenues within society, you know, when we

get obsessed with like certain activities, but definitely getting into the gym and building muscle. we, people feel like when I gain this amount of muscle or you know, when I start to look this certain way or when I have like that type of physique, life is going to be awesome. Life is going to be great. Then like I'll be perfect. And it gives us this type of sense of control or this knowingness about ourselves and our life.

Tim Doyle (01:28:04.386)

And that's where that confidence comes in where it's like, Hey, like I know, like if I just continue to do this, I know then it'll make me feel good and I'll be, you know, life will be great. When in actuality it's the exact opposite. Like there's something within us that whether we know it or not, it's a void that we're trying to fill. Like we feel like if I get bigger, if I look this certain way, then it'll, it'll mask things either consciously or unconsciously that I don't like about myself.

Tim Doyle (01:28:37.974)

when you and and this is getting into the the spiritual and the soul again when you understand that you are not your body when you're something so much greater than that when you're something so much more loved than that in a way

Tim Doyle (01:28:59.02)

you don't care as much about the just the external shell or you just have this deeper knowingness and this deeper feeling of who you are that the external surface doesn't affect you as much. And when you realize that, at least from my experience, that's where confidence comes in. When you get to that point, it's like,

This is what real confidence feels like.

where, like I like to work out. I love the activities of it. I love pushing my body and the feeling of it, but not doing it for that external factor. That's where the confidence comes in, where you're like, hey, I don't need this right. I don't need to use this the way that I had been in the past.

Aubrey de Grey, your biological age is more important than your actual age. It'll be one of my hot takes. Who knows if it's true or not. I believe that young people today, we're gonna be living much, much longer than we have any conscious understanding of right now. And what that gets into is,

reversing our biological age where we our actual age continues to go up and up and up, but our biological age either stays in place or best case scenario goes down and down and down. So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out within the longevity space, but I'm definitely a believer and this also goes into

Tim Doyle (01:30:57.848)

you know, applying yourself within life, whether it's different projects, work or whatever it is, I feel like one of the big things that we think like, we got to play things safe or like, like, let me, you know, just, you know, stay where I am right now, because maybe you're, you're fearful of it not working or, that'll take too much time or like, that's going to take a lot of time or I'm, you know, I'm going to have to invest.

myself a lot in it. So I just want to, you know, play within, you know, a space or a path that, you know, feels like more risk adverse or I know what like each step of the path will take. And the thing that I'll tell you, and it goes to, you know, the longevity space and us, you know, being around for much longer than we might have any belief like

you may be around for 200 years. Who knows? Not saying that's the case, but who knows? Maybe you're going to be living to 200 years and you want to be 150, 175 years old. And it's like, man, didn't know I'd be around for this long. I really wish that I actually did what I really want to do. I really wish I applied myself to that project and just kept tapping away at it because I'm a

I'm around much longer than I actually am.

150 years, don't know how many podcast episodes that would be, but that would be a lot of conversations, a lot of interviews with people fumbling around and still that. Kelly Gores, living out of alignment will eventually manifest physically.

Tim Doyle (01:32:39.498)

And this ties in perfectly with what we were just talking about.

Tim Doyle (01:32:46.132)

Living out of alignment, you know, not listening to yourself, not listening to your intuition doesn't just mean that like, life isn't as good or it's, you know, not how I wanted to be. It will manifest physically. It can manifest in physical disease, other problems, other problems that you wouldn't have asked for. So listen to yourself, listen to your heart.

And if you need to give yourself the extra reasoning behind it, don't just think of it as I'm scared to do this. Flip it around.

talk about it from the standpoint of, I need to do this for my physical health and my physical wellbeing.

Dr. Judson Brewer, focus on the how, not the why.

I think within our society today, especially when it comes to doing, you know, what we like to say nowadays, like doing the inner work, doing the work on ourselves. We always feel like we need to know why we are the way that we are. Why am I feeling this way? Why do I feel bad? Why did I go through those things?

Tim Doyle (01:34:13.026)

you know, why has this been affecting me the way that it has been? And we feel like if we have some type of light bulb moment, if we have some type of realizations for finding good answers to the why, then that's all that we need. I'm like, wow. Well, that's the why. And now I feel good. The why keeps us stuck in that phase of rumination.

in the phase of still just being that person that we don't want to be. We need to focus on the how and the how is very simple. It's basically, okay, this is what I'm feeling. This is what I'm going through. This is what I had gone through. How am I going to get past this? How am I going to work through this? The how is the answer. The how is the way forward. The why is what keeps you stuck.

Dr. Ola Shapiro, the unknown can be safer than the known.

Dr. Shapiro was a first responder at Chernobyl and the known reality at that time.

was, hey, you can't be living here anymore. It is not safe. It is dangerous. This will potentially cost you your life. And what the unknown looked like was, well, I don't know where I'm going to go. I don't know what my life is going to look like.

Tim Doyle (01:35:55.97)

I don't know what I'm going to be doing with my life. I don't know how I'm going to support my family, but that is safer because the known life will be much more dangerous and much riskier. And I think obviously within the setting of that story and the events and the events that unfolded there.

made that very easy for people. But I think it's an interesting microcosm. And it's almost like, put yourself.

Tim Doyle (01:36:39.234)

And it's like...

Use that environment for yourself right now.

and you allow yourself as you go into 2026.

Allow yourself to dig into the unknown. Allow yourself to

We never talk about it in this way. It's a very paradoxical way, but allow yourself to feel the safeness of the unknown and allow yourself to also feel the danger of the known, if that's how you feel. The unknown is a lot safer than you think. It's a lot more comforting than you think, and it's a lot more powerful than you think. So as you head into 2026,

Tim Doyle (01:37:31.522)

Allow yourself to go into uncharted waters.

Tim Doyle (01:37:39.074)

those thoughts that you have about what you wanna create, those intuitions that you have about what you wanna do with your life, the things that you feel within your heart, the things that you feel within your soul, tap into those things. You're not just doing it for yourself, you're doing it for your physical wellbeing, you're doing it for your physical health, and you're doing it for what you were meant to do within this life and on this planet.

Tim Doyle (01:38:09.644)

And with that, 43 interviews, 43 insights, giving my extra thoughts on it.

This is how I wrapped up that last one. This is how I wrapped up that.

This is how I wrapped up the...

2024.

Tim Doyle (01:38:41.112)

I'll wrap up this episode with how I wrapped up last year's for this interview insight episode.

I'll wrap up this episode, how I wrapped up last year's interview insight episode by saying this podcast, yes, I'm the host of it, but this is not my thing. I'm just the one who's facilitating these conversations. This podcast does not exist without all these people that I've talked about with you here today, the ones I talked about last year and the ones that I will continue to talk with in 2026 in the years ahead. I love this work. It energizes me to no end.

and I'm excited to continue to be a facilitator. Have a great 2026 and I'll see you next Wednesday.